Outlaw vs Emotiva vs Yamaha Z11

[greggp2]

I would like to hear your opinions on the following:

Option 1: I currently have an XPA-2 Amp and was considering moving my Arcam AVR350 into my bedroom and purchasing an XPA-5 and the UMC-1 for my main system. With what I've been reading on the UMC-1, I'm not sure I'm convinced this is the way to go. (Emo-EQ issues, no balanced inputs, etc)

Option 2: Sell my XPA-2 and purchase Outlaw Audio's bundled balanced 7 channel 200 WPC Amp and the Onkyo 886. I've read some good things about the Onkyo unit and the only negative I've really heard hear in some isolated cases is the Transformers on the Outlaw Amp can hum. Not sure this is a real issue though. (Like the balanced connection options and the option of having 1 Amp as opposed to 2 huge Amps with the XPA-2 and XPA-5

Option 3: Is just go back to 1 unit and pick up the Yamaha Z11. I can always use the extra onboard amps to bi-amp my front speakers and have my 2nd zone (background music) covered.

I probably use my system about 50% for music and 50% for HT. Please let me know which route you guys would take and why.

I'm not really concerned with the price difference with the Outlaw option, as it really is only about $1,000 more if I sell my XPA-2 and it gives me true balanced input connections. Thanks for your input in advance....

 

[jostenmeat]

Can you link the posts, or whatever, that state that Outlaw amps hum? Thanks, I ask because it is extremely rare that I run into complaints about Outlaw stuff, but then again, I never browse their forums either really.

That said, I don't care about balanced. My pre/pro is literally right above the amp, and doesn't have some 50 ft run. Therefore, since you're asking for what we would do, if it was me I go for reliability and my impression is that Outlaw is much superior to Emo for that. Not that an Emo won't work perfectly fine. I am on my second Onkyo, and they both have worked very well, but I would be lying to you if I didn't have the impression that Denon has better QC somehow, for example.

Otherwise, there are the brands that are often coupled to BW (if only due to marketing and/or other business reasons), like Rotel, or Classe, then there's also Sunfire and NAD, and of course the pro amps for best value in power, ad infinitum.

Between your choices, I vote for Outlaw.

 

[greggp2]

Links

Here are some links that talk about the Amp making a humming noise...

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Forum=41&topic=000131&Number=2&site_id=1#import

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/showthread.php?p=203595

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-899590.html

http://itmanager.blogs.com/notes/2007/12/200-watt-home-t.html

 

[theblatt]

how is the Z11 different than the Z7, other than the 4x50 channels?

 

[theblatt]

there has to be some difference other than that to justify the 30+ extra pounds and $3000 extra dollars...?

 

[Jeepers]

there has to be some difference other than that to justify the 30+ extra pounds and $3000 extra dollars...?

This is mentioned in the Z7 review performed by Gene.

 

[jostenmeat]

Here are some links that talk about the Amp making a humming noise...

Thanks for the links. Well, I guess you had to look around to find those. I'll tell you what, I can name at least four people here off the top of my head who have had issues with Emo amps. What I then want to know about Outlaw is how willing they are in taking back a noisy unit, because with Emo, they were unwilling AFAIK with some of our most prolific members here.

Another thing I'd like to know is how much you save on the bundle. Honestly, if you're against pro amps, I'd bookmark Audiogon, and look for some beefy Sunfire, Rotel, NAD, etc. Or Outlaw.

The 886 is already aging. My instinct tells me, if going Onkyo, might as well get the newer pre/pro, the Integra 80.1. There is also the 40.1, but I forget what the differences are, but could be 9.1 vs 7.1 (you know, with DSX), and video processing. Ok, it also uses the vanilla MultEQ rather than the XT version. The sub channel gets equal benefit with either, and people say that channel benefits the most to begin with these systems, FWIW.

 

[greggp2]

Josten,

I called Outlaw today and the Tech guy told me that in rare cases, their Amps, which are fully balanced, have big power supplies and transformers and if you don't have enough voltage available, the transformer can hum. He asked me about my set up and was pretty confident that their 7x200 Amp wouldn't cause an issue, but I could easily resolve it by hooking up a bigger breaker, or running another line to my component area.

He also told me that if I ordered anything from them and wasn't happy, they'd issue a call tag and the shipping back would be free. Considering they are doing free shipping right now, there's really no risk to me.

I like the fact that their Amps are 100% balanced, unlike the Emotiva Amps which just have balanced inputs.

The 886 seems to be a pretty good unit and while it is aging, I"m not sold on the idea that 9.1 is really even worth considering. I currently run a 5.1 channel set up and I could always pop 2 addt'l speakers in my ceiling to go 7.1, but with my B&W speakers, my sound stage has always been good enough that 5.1 has been sufficient.

For $3,099 I can get a 7 x 200 watt amp plus the Onkyo 886, both new and fully warrantied. I think that's a pretty decent deal all things considered. Aside from the Antem D2V, which sells for over 5k, there aren't many other units that can do what the 886 can and has Audessey Pro Calibration.

If you know anyone looking to buy an Emotiva XPA-2 that's less than a year old and in perfect condition, let me know. I'll likely be listing it on Audiogon this weekend.

If there's an interest, I'll report back how the Outlaw Amp and Onkyo are, but at this point, I'm leaning very heavily in this direction.

Thanks again for the advice and if anyone has any addition comments or advice, please weight in soon, as I need to order before Monday to get the free shipping!

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks. I didn't know the Emo amps weren't fully balanced. What's the point then? (Maybe there is one that I don't know of.)

So, it's like getting the 886 for $950 NIB. Not bad.

Just curious, is everything going to be connected with digital stuff (HDMI, S/PDIF)?


Wait, if you only have 5.1, and find that is perfectly satisfactory, why are you buying a 7 ch amp?

Going with the 7500/886 knocks down the price $500!

 

[greggp2]

I was planning on hooking up everything via digital. The Analog hook ups have been becoming less and less important. I may do an Analog hook up from my Oppo Blu-Ray for CD's, but I hear that is the weak link of the Onkyo, so I doubt I'll use it much.

I want the 7 Channel Amp for future upgradability and also because I have additional zones that I need to supply power to for surround sound around my house.

 

[oppman99]

Thanks. I didn't know the Emo amps weren't fully balanced. What's the point then? (Maybe there is one that I don't know of.)

The XPA-1 is fully balanced. It's the only one though.

 

[jinjuku]

I would like to hear your opinions on the following:

Option 1: I currently have an XPA-2 Amp and was considering moving my Arcam AVR350 into my bedroom and purchasing an XPA-5 and the UMC-1 for my main system. With what I've been reading on the UMC-1, I'm not sure I'm convinced this is the way to go. (Emo-EQ issues, no balanced inputs, etc)

For the sake of fairness Emotiva isn't the only company having issues with their Pre-pro.

Balanced line level input/outputs are over rated as to their utility in home listening environments. Do you really need balanced line level connections for 3 ft connections from pre-pro to amp?

 

[greggp2]

My Amp run to my Pre Pro is about 9 feet. I know that it is not that long, but I also know that a balanced connection will guarantee I have no interference. For the price, I'd prefer to go this route. I know Emo isn't the only company with Pre-Pro issues. Cary has been having major issues too. I still think the Onkyo is a better option than the Emo due to it's being out for a while, Onkyo having larger pockets to work out bugs and bring working products to market and the balanced connections and Audessey Pro capability. Due to these things, I'm heavily leaning toward the Outlaw/Onkyo combo.

I'm now debating whether I should just use my Pioneer receiver to power my 2nd zone and save the $500 and get the 5x200 Amp from Outlaw.

 

[jostenmeat]

My Amp run to my Pre Pro is about 9 feet. I know that it is not that long, but I also know that a balanced connection will guarantee I have no interference. For the price, I'd prefer to go this route. I know Emo isn't the only company with Pre-Pro issues. Cary has been having major issues too. I still think the Onkyo is a better option than the Emo due to it's being out for a while, Onkyo having larger pockets to work out bugs and bring working products to market and the balanced connections and Audessey Pro capability. Due to these things, I'm heavily leaning toward the Outlaw/Onkyo combo.

I'm now debating whether I should just use my Pioneer receiver to power my 2nd zone and save the $500 and get the 5x200 Amp from Outlaw.

Just FYI, an inconvenience of Onkyo/Integra when bitstreaming TrueHD, is the autoflagging of its DRC. which cannot be permanently defeated. It must be defeated every time, unless you never turn off the unit. Sending as pre-decoded PCM is fine, just have it defeated at player. For more, here is a thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62891

 

[greggp2]

Just FYI, an inconvenience of Onkyo/Integra when bitstreaming TrueHD, is the autoflagging of its DRC. which cannot be permanently defeated. It must be defeated every time, unless you never turn off the unit. Sending as pre-decoded PCM is fine, just have it defeated at player. For more, here is a thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62891

Good info Josten. This kind of stinks though. How easy is it to overcome this? I turn my unit off every night after watching/playing it...

 

[greggp2]

Just a quick FYI also, Outlaw per their tech today told me they are at least 60+ days out before even being able to deliver the first 997 Pre/Pro. The likelihood is that they will not be fulfilling any of the orders they have for this for at least 3-5 months at the soonest.

 

[greggp2]

I think I'm going with the 7 channel Amp so I also have the ability to bi-amp my front speakers in the future if I want... Anyway, if anyone else has an opinion, I'd love to hear it, as I'm about to pull the trigger on 7700/886 Combo on the Outlaw site.

 

[surveyor]

Here's my suggestion- for what it's worth!
I suggest, that if you go with Outlaw Audio that you go with the 7900 Amp.
You can never have too much watts- the more the better.
This is just my opinion.

 

[greggp2]

Surveyor,

Thanks for the suggestion. I think the 7900 is a Monster of an Amp. In fact ATI made the same Amp for Lexicon and it sells for $8,000 from what I understand. While I'd love to have that monster in my system, I really think it's overkill and can't really justify the price.

I did notice you have some Outlaw Audio gear in your set up. Have you been happy with it? Any issues to report?

 

[surveyor]

The Outlaw Audio gear has been good to me. But I wish I had the 7900 amp!