Outlaw Pre/Pro announcement.

[Davemcc]

I read this on the Outlaw forum:

"The Next Generation Outlaw Processor

As many of you know, delays in the delivery of key DSP chips from Cirrus Logic have slowed development of products not only from the Outlaws, but also for many other companies as well. Because of this situation, we've changed the product road map for our newest flagship processor. We are now well along the path for a new surround processor that is based on dual Texas Instruments DSP chips, along with other key high-end components. We estimate shipments of this new processor to begin late this fall or in early winter."

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000046.html

Does anybody know what difference the switch to dual Texas Instruments DSP chips will make? Is it an improvement over the Cirrus Logic chip?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, Texas-Instrument has the Burr-Brown DACs, so I'm sure it's all good.

 

[TLS Guy]

I read this on the Outlaw forum:

"The Next Generation Outlaw Processor

As many of you know, delays in the delivery of key DSP chips from Cirrus Logic have slowed development of products not only from the Outlaws, but also for many other companies as well. Because of this situation, we've changed the product road map for our newest flagship processor. We are now well along the path for a new surround processor that is based on dual Texas Instruments DSP chips, along with other key high-end components. We estimate shipments of this new processor to begin late this fall or in early winter."

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000046.html

Does anybody know what difference the switch to dual Texas Instruments DSP chips will make? Is it an improvement over the Cirrus Logic chip?

Cirrus seem to be in a state of chaos over their chip development right now. They have a number of chips which they do not have but that are not even able to be used for new design work.

http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/pro/techs/T2.html

Texas instruments have been investing heavily in digital audio. They were the first to have chips to decode the new HD audio formats. The release was October 2007.

Outlaw are not the only the manufacturer to switch to Texas instruments.

http://focus.ti.com/pr/docs/preldetail.tsp?sectionId=594&prelId=sc07170

I have always liked Texas instrument solid state devices. You do pay a premium for them as a rule though, so it may mean price increases.

I do note that the absolute max operating temp of all these audio microprocessors is 70 degrees C. I'm convinced more than ever that the receiver concept is really outdated and a very dumb idea, in this processor dominated age. Power amps just don't belong in proximity to these devices. I think this has a big part to play in the current limited situation in receivers. This is severely impacting the development of better speakers at lower price points.

This post gave me a good opportunity to review this segment of the chip market. I can no longer recommend the receiver as a sensible or viable concept for home theater other than cheap low powered HTIB.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can no longer recommend the receiver as a sensible or viable concept for home theater other than cheap low powered HTIB.

Yeah, for some reasons my brain won't allow me to buy a receiver either.

Even if all I need are HDMI switching, Internet Radio, HD Radio, & Processors for Satellite HDTV, I will end up buying a Denon AVP Processor, not a receiver.

But I think if you are using the receiver just for the processor & preamp section, it should be okay. If you are not using the amp section, that won't generate too much heat, will it?

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, for some reasons my brain won't allow me to buy a receiver either.

Even if all I need are HDMI switching, Internet Radio, HD Radio, & Processors for Satellite HDTV, I will end up buying a Denon AVP Processor, not a receiver.

But I think if you are using the receiver just for the processor & preamp section, it should be okay. If you are not using the amp section, that won't generate too much heat, will it?

That's true, but what a waste of materials and resources. If the industry would gear to pre/processors, then they would be cheaper. That allows people to buy the amps they want and above all would speed the changeover to powered speakers and active crossovers. This customer and industry obsession with an outdated device, is really limiting the improved results that could be achieved. The receivers truly are becoming a bigger and bigger blight on the AV landscape.

 

[Davemcc]

I would like to see more manufacturer attention paid to processors. I would like a processor similar to the Yamaha 663 or Onkyo 605 without the amp section. That should come in around $400-500, but it seems that a decent processor is usually twice the cost of an AVR even though it's essentially the same thing, only with less content.

 

[jostenmeat]

I agree with your viewpoint, Dave, but those two receivers are definitely more limited than some others. Neither can matrix hi def bitstreams, for one example. I am using a receiver as a pre, and though I enjoy it just fine, I would be lying if I said I wouldn't like an Outlaw in the rig.

I predict more tests of my willpower are on the way.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, isn't the new (whenever release) Emotiva Pre-Pro around $600 with 4 HDMI + TrueHD/DTS + DSP Post Processing? That would make it less expensive than a lot of receivers.

 

[3db]

Yeah, for some reasons my brain won't allow me to buy a receiver either.

Even if all I need are HDMI switching, Internet Radio, HD Radio, & Processors for Satellite HDTV, I will end up buying a Denon AVP Processor, not a receiver.

But I think if you are using the receiver just for the processor & preamp section, it should be okay. If you are not using the amp section, that won't generate too much heat, will it?

Unfortunately for some us, the cost of pre/pros exclude us going from going there and all we can afford are receivers.

Also, I find it unfair to lump all receivers as being poor for amplification purposes. If one takes a look a NAD for example, its amp section is as robust as some of the seperate amps.

 

[Davemcc]

Well, isn't the new (whenever release) Emotiva Pre-Pro around $600 with 4 HDMI + TrueHD/DTS + DSP Post Processing? That would make it less expensive than a lot of receivers.

Yes, but that's what I don't get. You have Emotiva that can design and engineer their own proprietary processors and sell them at that price and still make a profit. But the mainstream companies that already have their chips programmed for HDMI 1.3a, multiple codecs, etc and who will put them into a variety of receivers won't use their own existing processing ability to create a dedicated processor. I would love to see an affordable "mainstream" brand processor.

In a way, Onkyo is doing it since the Integra processor is pretty much the same as the 905 in terms of processing ability, but is cheaper than the 905. Yet it's nowhere near the price range of a basic, competent receiver. I will probably get an Emotiva processor when available, unless the Outlaw turns out to be way, way better because the Outlaw will still be an expensive piece.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Unfortunately for some us, the cost of pre/pros exclude us going from going there and all we can afford are receivers.

Also, I find it unfair to lump all receivers as being poor for amplification purposes. If one takes a look a NAD for example, its amp section is as robust as some of the seperate amps.

I agree. It is my personal preference not to buy receivers, but some receivers are awesome. I think the Denon AVR-5805, 5308, Yamaha Z11, & the new $5K Pioneer receivers are great and can probably produce more power than a lot of separate amps. I mean some of these separate amps only have 20 wpc, 60 wpc, 100 wpc, ect. I think most receivers > $500 are going to be more than enough for most people, especially with efficient 8 ohms speakers.

I was just stating my preference.

But if you own speakers that go down to 2 ohms, you should probably get some separate amps that can handle the low impedance.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, but that's what I don't get. You have Emotiva that can design and engineer their own proprietary processors and sell them at that price and still make a profit. But the mainstream companies that already have their chips programmed for HDMI 1.3a, multiple codecs, etc and who will put them into a variety of receivers won't use their own existing processing ability to create a dedicated processor. I would love to see an affordable "mainstream" brand processor.

In a way, Onkyo is doing it since the Integra processor is pretty much the same as the 905 in terms of processing ability, but is cheaper than the 905. Yet it's nowhere near the price range of a basic, competent receiver. I will probably get an Emotiva processor when available, unless the Outlaw turns out to be way, way better because the Outlaw will still be an expensive piece.

I'm guessing the Outlaw will be around $1,000 and the Emotiva will be $600.

I've used the current flagship Outlaw pre-pro. It's great, but I did not think it was in anyway better than the processor ability of the Harman Kardon 247 that I compared it with.

 

[Steve.]

I pre-ordered a Emo UMC, I think the price to performance ratio will be better than anything else available in the near future.