outlaw or mid price receiver?

[biggy]

<font color='#000000'>I was reading an earlier post this week about whether to choose a $3000 - $5000 flagship receiver or low to mid price separates. &nbsp;Gene was saying how flagships today are just as equal if not superior especially to low end separates like outlaw 950/7100 combo ($1600). &nbsp;

So for those of us trying to keep under a $2000 budget, my question to Gene and others here is how do you think mid price receivers ($1000 - $2000) like the new Denon 3805, Pioneer vsx55, Yamaha 2400, H/K 7300, Marantz 7400 compare to the outlaw 950/7100 combo or other low price separates?

Secondly, would these mid-priced receivers be good enough to drive Monitor Audio Gold reference line. Should I be using separates or a flagship, why or why not?

I recently acquired the GR-20's (6 ohm, 89db) for fronts, GR Centre (8 ohm, 90db) for center and GRFX (6ohm, 88db) for rears. &nbsp;My room is 11' x 19' and will be used 95% HT 5% &nbsp;music. Listening levels between 75 to 85. &nbsp;Would Outlaw or any of the other brands above sound better with these speakers? &nbsp;I do not care about DSP's but would like upconversion, DPLII and automatic set-up.

Besides double or triple the price, what are you getting with the Denon 5803 vs 3805? &nbsp;I know more watts, but is it a better amp and more bells and whistles?

If &nbsp;I am only runninga 5.1 set-up with a receiver that is 7.1 capable. &nbsp;Will there be more power available for those 5 channels? &nbsp;So if a receiver is rated at 7 x 100 watts, then is it rated 5 x 140?

Thanks!</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#8D38C9'>I've heard nothing but good things about the Outlaw, but it's getting a little long in the tooth. &nbsp;It doesn't do PLIIx and doesn't have a lot of inputs. &nbsp;Likewise, many new receivers will upsample video to component and PCM to 96/24. &nbsp;If this doesn't matter to you then the Outlaw should still be a viable unit. &nbsp;Features oftimes are more a marketing tool than listening tool, but only you can decide what you need.</font>

 

[Shinerman]

<font color='#000000'>As far as A/V receivers are concerned. Seems like the Outlaw 1050 has been around for a while now. Any word on when the &quot;1150&quot;? &nbsp;might be out. &nbsp; The 1050 was a great value when it came out. &nbsp;Can't wait to see what's next.

Shinerman</font>

 

[jdueitt]

<font color='#000000'>Now might be the time to consider &quot;future proofing&quot; your system by buying Outlaw (or NAD or others) monoblocs. &nbsp;The Outlaw M200's are outstanding amplifiers. &nbsp;I have tested them on my bench (I am an old technical guy), testing distortion specifications, output wattage while checking distortion on my IFR spectrum analyser and running pink noise generation from my Ivie RTA/SPL units. &nbsp;These units (Outlaw's) are worth twice the price...especially with the humongous toroid transformer power supplies they have. &nbsp;They are using extremely high quality Bi-Polars and MOSFETs. &nbsp;This amp has an extremely low noise floor. &nbsp;I've owned NAD, Krell, MacIntosh and have long been a Class A Tube guy. &nbsp;Todays Bi-Polars are outstanding quality due to manufacturing and etc.. Check with Krell and others on that. &nbsp;I just got rid of my Krell 150 due to needing an air conditioner when I operate it. &nbsp;You don't need Class A anymore for good quality sound (I'm going to hear nasty things from those guys since I said that--I'm sure! &nbsp;These guys have got to defend why they spent so much money--like I used to!) &nbsp;The newest A/B amps will give them (Class A) a run for the money with the latest super quality, super low noise Bi-Polars and circuit designs while saving on ac bills (or &quot;hot flashes&quot;--WAF).

NUFF said about these amps...however, the amplifier Manufacturers will never stop developing the front ends on amplifiers and there will always be a new decoding system and &quot;gimicks&quot; to hit the market due to changing formats and etc. &nbsp;Just look at DVD and SACD!!! &nbsp;It will never end!.

You can &quot;future-Proof&quot; your system by purchasing good quality &quot;back-ends&quot; (amplifiers) and continually replacing the &quot;front-end&quot; as new formats enter the scene (which you will buy)--no need in continually replacing the amplifiers. &nbsp;If you buy 300 watt monoblocs (any manufacturer you like), you will always have the power you need no matter what the front end changes to. &nbsp;Have you ever tried to sell a used. outdated integrated system with old formats??? &nbsp;You will only get zip!!!

This is only my recommendation! &nbsp;I'm sure that the manufacturers would love to convince you to keep buying the entire package over and over again--what's the obsolecense time now-a-days....6 months??? &nbsp;These things are like computers now!!!

Again, This is the way I figure it. &nbsp;(I own a Yamaha 2400 and so far have added three Outlaw M200's to the front three channels. &nbsp;I like to listen to classical and jazz at loud levels as well as HT--I have a large media room 24 X 20). &nbsp;Just a suggestion!

Personal Regards
JD</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#8D38C9'>Several people I've talked to have had trouble with noise w/the Outlaw Monoblocs- have you experienced any problems in this regard? &nbsp;The price is attractive if the QC problems have been resolved.

BTW, this has been addressed by many owners of the Outlaw amps on the Outlaw Audio forum, in case you think I'm &quot;gunning for them.&quot;

</font>

 

[jdueitt]

<font color='#000000'>I would be curious to find out how these people determined that these are noisy. &nbsp;If you connect your pre-amp or amp to these and turn the volume all the way up with no signal source switched on to the pre-amp and you hear noise--then most likely it is being produced by the pre-amp and not the mono-blocs. &nbsp;Several pre-amp sources (if you have them) should be input into the mono-blocs for comparison. &nbsp;I have three different pre-amps including the Yamaha 2400 pre-outs which produced varying degrees of noise (at full volume) from each of these which means that the noise was most likely from the pre-amps (this noises I heard were ever so slight and insignificant at full volume at any rate). &nbsp;If you disconnect all pre-amp sources from the amps there is no noise present. &nbsp;I have measured the signals from all sources which I plugged into the mono-blocs with an oscilloscope and there was a slight noise floor on all units at full volume--however very insignificant and would not be present at even a very loud output. &nbsp;I heard nothing coming from the Outlaws at all. &nbsp;I connected a high quality function generator with a sine wave sweep and saw no measurable distortion or degradation. &nbsp;I injected a 1KHz signal (also 10KHz) and watched it on my IFR spectrum analyzer. &nbsp;I saw a very low 3rd harmonic but it must have been somewhere around -100 db down which is not even a discussion ( all amplifiers including the most expensive Class A's have noise but is so low it does not constitute discussion)

Again, I wonder how the others determined where the noise was coming from. &nbsp;I would be interested in learning how they tested their systems. &nbsp;So far I am happy with the mono blocs performance--however, I am still within my 30 day try out and return.

Maybe I am on the wrong track or I missed something. &nbsp;I would like to know while I am in the 30 day return period.

Regards.
JD</font>

 

[Ron]

<font color='#000000'>Wow, I think I've responded to similar questions in this forum so many times since I signed up that I'm starting to sound like I work for Outlaw.

About 18 months ago, I was doing like you and looking at a new receiver in the $1000 to $3500 range.  I had never had seperates and felt they were out of reach.  Then I happened to read a review on the Outlaw 950 prepro in Sound &amp; Vision magazine and started doing some investigating.  What I found out was that there was not alot of negative.  And, the price, I think I paid $2498 at the time for the 950/770 7-channel 200-watt combo, was far below anything that was comparable.  I've had my units for almost 15 months now, with absolutely no problems, and I can't imagine anything sounding a heck of a lot better at any price.  The 950 processes everything but Pro-Logic IIx, but it offers Cirus Surround that converts anything to 7 channel.  Of course, if you are only looking at a 5-channel set-up, what good is PLIIx?

Also, while I see a previous post noted that the 950 was limited with respect to inputs, I've got a DVD/SACD/DVD-A player, VCR, Cable box, and CD recorder attached with room left.  Unless, you have an incredible amount of equipment, it is hard to imagine there not being enough inputs.

At any rate, I would highly recommend that you look at their website, particularly the Outlaw Saloon, which is their forum.  You'll find all kinds of discussion about the various equipment, including where people have experienced some problems with defects.  Like any manufacturer, there are occasional defects and they invariably get discussed here.  The equipment has a 5 year warranty, with a 30-day, no questions asked trial period.  Hard to beat that.  Plus, I am understating it when I say that their customer service and support is extraordinary.  I was really worried about spending this amount of money on this kind of equipment for an internet purchase, but I can honestly say, unless you spend one heck of alot more at a boutique type of A/V store, you are not going to get the kind of service you can get from Outlaw.  Certainly, not from your friendly neighborhood Circuit City, Best Buy, Tweeter, etc.

Nuff said on that.  Read all you can on them outside of this forum.  I think you'd be much more satisfied with seperates and have more flexibility in the long run.  In your price range, the 950/755 200-watt 5-channel amp combo goes for $1995.  The 950/7100 100-watt 7-channel amp combo goes for $1598.  You could do the 950/5-200 watt mono blocks combo for about $2200.

With respect to your last question in your post.  If you have a 100 watt/channel 7-channel receiver and only use 5 channels, it's still only 100 watts per channel.

Hope this helps.  Good luck.  Half the fun is looking and agonizing over what would best suit you.</font>

 

[BuddTX]

<font color='#000000'>Hope this helps. *Good luck. *Half the fun is looking and agonizing over what would best suit you.</font>

Well Said! Research is half the fun!

Thanks for the comments. I am considering the Outlaw along with the Denon 3805 and Onkyo 701(or 801).

 

[kingtut]

JD, I read some reviews that the Outlaw Mono block is on the bright side. My listening room has hardwood flooring, which tends to emphasize the brightness in the treble. I am considering the Outlaw mono block, but I am concern that it may be too bright for my room setting.