Outlaw 7500 or Outlaw 7700 + bi-amp mains?

[JonnyFive23517]

Hi All,

I have some Salk Soundscape 8's coming in a couple months, and I'm looking at a new multi-channel pre-pro and power amp for them. I run a 5.1, may get a second SB13 and run a 5.2. I love Audyssey for movies, so I'm pretty much set on upgrading my Marantz SR6006 to the Marantz AV8801.

Regarding power amp, I was looking at picking up the Outlaw 7500 which should have all the power I need. But then it occurred to me that for a little more, I could do the 7700 and bi-amp the Salks. But the AV8801 does not allow the XLR outputs to be re-assigned for bi-amping, so now I'd have to use an XLR splitter.

I've never bi-amped, and I don't know if having to use that splitter would defeat whatever gains I'd make by bi-amping? So here's my thoughts:

1) Spend a little more, get the 7 channel 7700 and bi-amp even though I have to use an XLR splitter cable. This amp will also be better in the future if I move up to a 7.2 system.

2) Skip the bi-amping for now, just get the 5 channel 7500.

I appreciate any thoughts! Thanks! -Jon

 

[Irvrobinson]

It is a very rare speaker indeed that gets any benefit from passive bi-amping. I'd skip it.

 

[RichB]

Passive Bi-amping will not increase the volume.
There was an Outlaw support person a few years ago that made an argument for it that made sense to me.
Essentially:

In an amp with independently powered channels like the outlaw, it is possible to clip one channel without impacting the other amps.
The upper end is not going to require the same power as the bass, so you eliminate the clipping or compression when the bass has a peak from interacting with the upper end.

Personally, I would concentrate on picking the amp that you want and not on bi-amping.

- Rich

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. And look, you're trying to save me some money that I can throw towards a new TV!

 

[fuzz092888]

The issue I take with that is, if you're clipping the amplifier channel with one channel, then odds are you'll clip it with two in a passive bi-amping situation. The Outlaw rep is right, the tweeters and mid-drivers don't use as much power as the bass section, but if you have your mains crossed over to subs then it should almost never be a problem unless the amp is seriously underpowered. If you're running the speakers full range and you clip the amp channel, then odds are simply removing the highs or highs+mids isn't going to get rid of enough of the power requirement to then not clip the amp channel.

Passive Bi-amping will not increase the volume.
There was an Outlaw support person a few years ago that made an argument for it that made sense to me.
Essentially:


Personally, I would concentrate on picking the amp that you want and not on bi-amping.

- Rich

 

[Swerd]

Congrats on the new Soundscapes! They are excellent speakers. What finish are you getting, and what kind of speakers are you replacing?

Like the others say, don't worry about biamping. Just get an amp with enough juice to drive those speakers without ever clipping. I know Dennis Murphy uses a single amp channel as he designs speakers and their crossovers, including your model. Jim Salk provides the bi-amp terminals because so many speaker buyers expect to see them with speakers in that price range.

Regarding Audyssey, keep an open mind about using it. Many Salk owners have observed that Audyssey can result in "sucking the life" out of the sound of their speakers. As a result they avoid using it. Your experience may vary, but I suggest you try them for several weeks with and without Audyssey.

 

[RichB]

The issue I take with that is, if you're clipping the amplifier channel with one channel, then odds are you'll clip it with two in a passive bi-amping situation. The Outlaw rep is right, the tweeters and mid-drivers don't use as much power as the bass section, but if you have your mains crossed over to subs then it should almost never be a problem unless the amp is seriously underpowered. If you're running the speakers full range and you clip the amp channel, then odds are simply removing the highs or highs+mids isn't going to get rid of enough of the power requirement to then not clip the amp channel.

I think the point was that clipping tends to add unpleasant high frequencies.
The low end amp will clip but the resulting high-frequencies will go nowhere and the amp driving the upper end will not be clipping.

I think the concept is sound (pun ) but in reality, if you are listening in this range, you are better off getting a bigger amp.

- Rich

 

[fuzz092888]

While it does add high frequency harmonics which may sound unpleasant, the real reason you want to avoid clipping is due to the thermal issues it causes to the amp, the crossover, or the individual drivers themselves. Even if you get rid of the nasty high frequency stuff, you could still be pushing the woofer section, crossover and amp channel into places where they could thermally overload, still causing damage, which is a much bigger issue than just the leaking high frequency harmonics. Basically the Outlaw rep is advising that you get rid the audible clipping, opening you up to destroying your equipment. Definitely not sound advice.

But, we agree that if you're clipping at all, odds are you need a new amp.

I think the point was that clipping tends to add unpleasant high frequencies.
The low end amp will clip but the resulting high-frequencies will go nowhere and the amp driving the upper end will not be clipping.

I think the concept is sound (pun ) but in reality, if you are listening in this range, you are better off getting a bigger amp.

- Rich

 

[panteragstk]

I'll just add my $.02. I would skip bi-amping as others have stated. Congrats on the new speakers. I use Audyssey for movies, but tend to skip it quite a lot for music listening.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Congrats on the new Soundscapes! They are excellent speakers. What finish are you getting, and what kind of speakers are you replacing?

Like the others say, don't worry about biamping. Just get an amp with enough juice to drive those speakers without ever clipping. I know Dennis Murphy uses a single amp channel as he designs speakers and their crossovers, including your model. Jim Salk provides the bi-amp terminals because so many speaker buyers expect to see them with speakers in that price range.

Regarding Audyssey, keep an open mind about using it. Many Salk owners have observed that Audyssey can result in "sucking the life" out of the sound of their speakers. As a result they avoid using it. Your experience may vary, but I suggest you try them for several weeks with and without Audyssey.

Red rosewood with some Mundorf cap upgrades. I can't wait for them to get here! Replacing a pair of GR Research N3S monitors, which I have been very happy with.

I hear you about Audyssey, and I will definitely experiment with/without it. I may find I prefer music on 2.0 direct, and movies with Audyssey. I've measured with/without Audyssey and it does do a good job smoothing out some bass problems in my room.

I don't anticipate any power problems as I listen at pretty low volumes, and I cross over to a SVS SB13.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I'll just add my $.02. I would skip bi-amping as others have stated. Congrats on the new speakers. I use Audyssey for movies, but tend to skip it quite a lot for music listening.

Looks like the vote is to skip it so I'll do that and save some dough. I may find myself in the same situation, direct for music and Audyssey for movies. Thanks for the input!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Congrats on your new speakers.

I would not bi-amp either, but if you ever consider 7.1 in the future, getting 2 extra amps may be worth it.

I use Dynamic EQ for everything. Since I use Audyssey Bypass L/R for everything, I guess I also bypass Audyssey for music.