Outlaw 5000 or crown xli800

[Dylan Wight]

I've been considering making the move to separates. I currently have a Dennon avrx1300. I've been happy with the sound but have been wondering if I would get further improvement. I have narrowed down my choices to either the outlaw 5000 or crown xli800 amps. Not sure if there would be much benefit from the extra watts per channel the crown would deliver. Currently running a 5.1 setup. Speakers are Klipsch rp280f and rp450c center channel and rp150m surrounds. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[lovinthehd]

You'd need a different avr, yours doesn't have the necessary preouts. Also, one is a 5 channel amp, the other is 2 channel. Your speakers are fairly sensitive and do not require much power to get quite loud....

 

[NINaudio]

The sensitivity on your main speakers is 98 dB. You shouldn't need an external amp to make your ears bleed with them.

SPL calculator

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If you want sound improvement, don't upgrade electronics, do upgrade speakers.
Free advice: I'd recommend to play with your current speakers toe-in - you may find that 15deg off-axis could better than on-axis due to slightly rising treble.

Also - do you own a sub?

 

[Dylan Wight]

Thanks for the response. It sounds like I won't get any improvement from increasing wattage output. I do own a sub it's a klipsch rw12d. I am actually pretty happy with the sound I am getting currently. I was just curious if the higher output amps would make any difference.

 

[Hetfield]

Thanks for the response. It sounds like I won't get any improvement from increasing wattage output. I do own a sub it's a klipsch rw12d. I am actually pretty happy with the sound I am getting currently. I was just curious if the higher output amps would make any difference.

And I have the theory that a good separate amp will definitely improve the sound no matter the speaker. Made my speakers sound better going from Yamaha receiver to Parasound amp controlled by the Yamaha receiver.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the response. It sounds like I won't get any improvement from increasing wattage output. I do own a sub it's a klipsch rw12d. I am actually pretty happy with the sound I am getting currently. I was just curious if the higher output amps would make any difference.

It's possible at high enough levels and if you're far enough from each speaker I suppose. Since you'd need a different avr kind of a moot point unless you want to buy a power amp and use the pre-outs for zone 2 to see how much difference it'll make. Nice, another surviving RW12d (got one several years back for $300 on my subwoofer journey). What do you cross the speakers to the sub at?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for the response. It sounds like I won't get any improvement from increasing wattage output. I do own a sub it's a klipsch rw12d. I am actually pretty happy with the sound I am getting currently. I was just curious if the higher output amps would make any difference.

I'm sure you realize that there are 2 different POV:

1. Amps don't have a sound signature of their own - good quality amps just amplify the sound; they don't add any spices and flavors to the sound.

Double-blind studies have proven this.

If your speakers only require 1-10 Watts of power, then your amp will only output 1-10 Watts of power even if you have a 2,000 WPC amp.

2. Amps do have a sound signature of their own - they will change the way your speakers sound. Double-blind studies don't mean anything here.

 

[everettT]

I'm sure you realize that there are 2 different POV:

1. Amps don't have a sound signature of their own - good quality amps just amplify the sound; they don't add any spices and flavors to the sound.

Double-blind studies have proven this.

If your speakers only require 1-10 Watts of power, then your amp will only output 1-10 Watts of power even if you have a 2,000 WPC amp.

2. Amps do have a sound signature of their own - they will change the way your speakers sound. Double-blind studies don't mean anything here.

Is that like Norco and generic hydrocodone?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've been happy with the sound but have been wondering if I would get further improvement.

Is it because you feel you have to turn the master volume knob up too high?

A lot of people with Klipsch and high sensitivity speakers often complain that they have to turn the volume up too high after they apply Audyssey, which will lower the digital trim/speaker channel levels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is that like Norco and generic hydrocodone?

Funny you mention that. I'm verifying an order for Norco as we speak.

Of course, we're still going to give them Hydrocodone generic anyway. We know what's best for everyone.

Norco, Vicodin, or Lortab: Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Cary Audio
Generic Hydrocodone: ATI, Monolith, Outlaw

 

[Dylan Wight]

Is it because you feel you have to turn the master volume knob up too high?/

No I don't have any issue with the volume knob. I suppose it's just the pursuit of improved performance.

I hear people commenting about improved clarity and sound detail when switching to a power amp rather than a avr. Not sure if there is validity to thesevtypes of comments or not. I understand this is a highly debated topic.

 

[lovinthehd]

@Dylan Wight fwiw I have used several different power amps with various speakers/avrs/pre-amps. Not my experience that the amp was significantly different sq wise, not even when it was 3x as powerful (within reasonable matching levels). A power amp is mostly useful if you have less sensitive speakers or ones that are low impedance or sit further away than it will bring any particular sonic qualities. I think many are just enjoying their amp purchases and there's nothing wrong with that. It can be hard to do a proper comparison, too.

 

[2channel lover]

Thanks for the response. It sounds like I won't get any improvement from increasing wattage output. I do own a sub it's a klipsch rw12d. I am actually pretty happy with the sound I am getting currently. I was just curious if the higher output amps would make any difference.

Not that you will be able to tell.

 

[Bucknekked]

I was in a restaurant last week and while wandering around looking for the restroom I was able to see an audio rack setup for the music in the restaurant. It was a rack of 6 Crown amps. I'm not sure which models as I am not a Crown afficienado. I think this is the first time I've actually seen Crown amps in person.
They could have been Xli series amps or XLS Drivecores. I just don't remember their front panels well enough.

I think if I was going to build out a system and wanted tons of power this is how I would go. I would probably pick up a new AVR for all the digital connectivity and features and then drive the backend with the Crown amps. So far though, all the speakers I would consider just don't need a ton of power.

I've always coveted and lusted after separate power amps: those gigantic battleships that weigh a ton and are hard to lug around. And front end them with some exotic looking pre-amp. The problem is the Crown amps put out all power anyone could reasonably use and they do it at a fraction of the cost of "audiophile separates". And an AVR is a reasonable front end for most peoples usage, again, at a fraction of the cost of a high end pre-amp.

I think I grew up on the image of separates as being the ultimate way to go. The reality in 2018 is there are products, like the Crown series, that provide tons of power (1,000's of watts) at very reasonable prices and they can be driven with an AVR with proper pre-outs.

What's next? Music you can carry around in your pocket?

 

[KEW]

Thanks for the response. It sounds like I won't get any improvement from increasing wattage output. I do own a sub it's a klipsch rw12d. I am actually pretty happy with the sound I am getting currently. I was just curious if the higher output amps would make any difference.

If they look really cool and you had to save up your money for a long time (anticipating how much better they are going to sound), of course they will sound better to you!
But if you look at measurements or did a blind study, the reality is: No Actual Difference!

 

[everettT]

Sold my last McIntosh amp for $2700 (30 years old 2ch amp)
Paid for a pair of speakers. It looked awesome, but didn't bring me audible performace over amps costing 1/3 of it.
Sold my last McIntosh 2ch preamp for $2k, bought me current multi channel preamp.

I use crown units for my subs and they work flawlessly, with the fans almost never coming on and if they did , I couldn't hear them

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sold my last McIntosh amp for $2700 (30 years old 2ch amp)
Paid for a pair of speakers. It looked awesome, but didn't bring me audible performace over amps costing 1/3 of it.
Sold my last McIntosh 2ch preamp for $2k, bought me current multi channel preamp.

I use crown units for my subs and they work flawlessly, with the fans almost never coming on and if they did , I couldn't hear them

And if you ever wanted to, you could easily replace those fans for very little price.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It seems many guys (not all) who have owned high-end components for many years are more likely to accept more economical alternatives that accomplish the same goal of great sound.

 

[Andrein]

Maybe if you determined and ready to spend some money, you could add another sub and potentially upgrading avr to get the latest features...