Outdoor system help

[mx416]

Hello Audioholics!

I am trying to solve a problem and I am looking for this communities help. So i will break it down in 4 sections. Context, Current setup, issue, “potentional solutions” . The potentional solotions part is where i need your help

Context:
During the summer months i am very lucky that i get to go over to my parents house to enjoy their property. they have a unique setup on a lake that is just a blast to be at in the summer. Their house sets with the back porch facing the lake. The house is about 80’-100’ from the waters edge and about 70’ to the beach sand. See picture for reference. We spend many afternoons and evenings in the summer hanging out on the beach and in the water.

Current setup:
My parents current setup is as such.
Receiver: TX 636 (hammy down from me)
living room: 5.1
kitchen & bar: zone 2 RCA ran to Audiosource amp100vs
porch: 3 -8” in ceiling speakers ran off zone 2 RCA to Audiosource amp210vs

Issue:
Currently the under porch area is well served by the 3 8” in ceiling speakers. The 3 speakers can rock the porch just fine for my parents liking. the source is normally an iPhone controling Spotify through the TX 636 To zone 2. This gives us both inside and the porch synchronized and playing at the same time. This is perfect. The issue arises for the beach area. The beach area is currently void of speakers. To combat this issue when we hang out on the beach we do one of two things.
1. We turn up the 3 8” porch speakers to obscene levels just to get some semblance of sound on the beach. This is a pretty bad option because the porch is just unbearable to be under and you cant even talk. The sound level at the beach with this option is not great.
2. We being out a couple Bluetooth speakers to the beach and use the Spotify group session to play off a second phone. This has it own issues in that the group session is only synced within about 10-15 seconds. So the porch speakers stay about 10 seconds ahead of the Bluetooth speakers playing off the second phone. The only advantage is that both the porch and Bluetooth are playing the same song and playlist.

Solution:
Im looking for a solution that allows the porch and the beach top play off the same source at the same time to have two very nice synced zones. The goal is that when you go from floating in the water to setting on the porch the audio is seamless. My question is what do/how do i do this?

New receiver And run a denon home setup? With Denon home out on the beach?

Do Something like this? Where we go Wi-Fi?
https://ticcorp.com/products/bg50-bluetooth-omnidirectional-in-ground-subwoofer-with-satellite-out

Are there better options?


Thanks for the help!

 

[BMXTRIX]

Ideally, you would run speaker wire from the home to the beach area and setup multiple speakers along the edge of where the sand meets the grassy area and use a second amp to run them off of. When the amp is off, that area is off. When the amp is on, you have perfectly synched, with as much power as you have purchased to as many speakers as you want. The hard part is getting the speaker wire out to the beach area. But, the sound will be solid.

 

[highfigh]

Ideally, you would run speaker wire from the home to the beach area and setup multiple speakers along the edge of where the sand meets the grassy area and use a second amp to run them off of. When the amp is off, that area is off. When the amp is on, you have perfectly synched, with as much power as you have purchased to as many speakers as you want. The hard part is getting the speaker wire out to the beach area. But, the sound will be solid.

The soil is sandy, so getting the wires out there should be very easy. The tricky part is making sure they're well-protected from all weather.

 

[mx416]

I had two concerns for running just straight speaker wire to the beach. maybe you folks can put those to rest

1. The long distance the wires would have to travel to avoid sprinkler lines and get to the existing conduit under the sidewalk. (200’-300’)
2. Getting the wires out of the house in a nice fashion, without tearing up the house or concrete around the house.


Thanks James

 

[highfigh]

Hello Audioholics!

I am trying to solve a problem and I am looking for this communities help. So i will break it down in 4 sections. Context, Current setup, issue, “potentional solutions” . The potentional solotions part is where i need your help

Context:
During the summer months i am very lucky that i get to go over to my parents house to enjoy their property. they have a unique setup on a lake that is just a blast to be at in the summer. Their house sets with the back porch facing the lake. The house is about 80’-100’ from the waters edge and about 70’ to the beach sand. See picture for reference. We spend many afternoons and evenings in the summer hanging out on the beach and in the water.

Current setup:
My parents current setup is as such.
Receiver: TX 636 (hammy down from me)
living room: 5.1
kitchen & bar: zone 2 RCA ran to Audiosource amp100vs
porch: 3 -8” in ceiling speakers ran off zone 2 RCA to Audiosource amp210vs

Issue:
Currently the under porch area is well served by the 3 8” in ceiling speakers. The 3 speakers can rock the porch just fine for my parents liking. the source is normally an iPhone controling Spotify through the TX 636 To zone 2. This gives us both inside and the porch synchronized and playing at the same time. This is perfect. The issue arises for the beach area. The beach area is currently void of speakers. To combat this issue when we hang out on the beach we do one of two things.
1. We turn up the 3 8” porch speakers to obscene levels just to get some semblance of sound on the beach. This is a pretty bad option because the porch is just unbearable to be under and you cant even talk. The sound level at the beach with this option is not great.
2. We being out a couple Bluetooth speakers to the beach and use the Spotify group session to play off a second phone. This has it own issues in that the group session is only synced within about 10-15 seconds. So the porch speakers stay about 10 seconds ahead of the Bluetooth speakers playing off the second phone. The only advantage is that both the porch and Bluetooth are playing the same song and playlist.

Solution:
Im looking for a solution that allows the porch and the beach top play off the same source at the same time to have two very nice synced zones. The goal is that when you go from floating in the water to setting on the porch the audio is seamless. My question is what do/how do i do this?

New receiver And run a denon home setup? With Denon home out on the beach?

Do Something like this? Where we go Wi-Fi?
https://ticcorp.com/products/bg50-bluetooth-omnidirectional-in-ground-subwoofer-with-satellite-out

Are there better options?


Thanks for the help!View attachment 58706

Get ready to use a trencher.

70' isn't tremendously far, but it can pose some issues for an amplifier and system.

#1 - line loss and it's the whole reason for 70V amplifiers. Wire gauge and line loss are almost immaterial and you can connect a group of speakers easily, so coverage can be better than if you only have one pair.
#2 - Lightning. Anything that's connected to a grounded system is a target/source for a large jolt that you don't want to be a part of, in any way. Your house doesn't want to be involved, either. A simple surge suppressor won't help, so you want any conduit used for this purpose to be well-grounded.
#3 - weatherproof speakers- do you want to leave them at the beach, or will they be brought in when you're done? It's not a problem if you want to leave them, but they will need to be made for outdoor use.
#4 - Synch is kind of a non-issue because it won't matter which method you use for getting the audio to the beach, you'll still have some delay. If you're at the beach and can hear what's playing at the porch AND the music playing at the beach, you'll hear that the sound from the porch will be delayed by roughly 1 millisecond for every foot of distance between you and the source. If you can't hear the sound from the porch, it's not an issue unless you're walking back and at some point, it will be unavoidable.

Would a self-contained beach system be a good option? It could receive BT from the house and if it's on wheels, it wouldn't be hard to take back.

 

[highfigh]

I had two concerns for running just straight speaker wire to the beach. maybe you folks can put those to rest

1. The long distance the wires would have to travel to avoid sprinkler lines and get to the existing conduit under the sidewalk. (200’-300’)
2. Getting the wires out of the house in a nice fashion, without tearing up the house or concrete around the house.


Thanks JamesView attachment 58722

That distance makes this different from what the first diagram shows- it's a good case for a 70V system or self-contained with BT.

Is there any possibility that you/they might want power at the beach? While this presents some danger if the soil or people are wet, it can be done safely, as it is at docks around the World. It just needs to be done correctly. One way involves using an isolation transformer, so the cost can climb.

Check my last post about a self-contained system- it's not an 'off the shelf' deal, but it's not hard to do.

 

[mx416]

Thank you for the responses.

Either a self contained or a Bluetooth would be acceptable. Simpler the better. IM a little concerned if we go with a 70V or speaker wire is how to get the wire out of the house. There doesn't seem to be a clean way to do it.

@highfigh I am good with a little time delay due to distance. That we can handle. The

time delay that we currently get will running a zone 2 and then using a separate phone for Bluetooth is 10-15 seconds. So you walk away from the beach hearing the end of the verse and then you get to travel back in time and hear the verse again at the porch .

 

[highfigh]

Thank you for the responses.

Either a self contained or a Bluetooth would be acceptable. Simpler the better. IM a little concerned if we go with a 70V or speaker wire is how to get the wire out of the house. There doesn't seem to be a clean way to do it.

@highfigh I am good with a little time delay due to distance. That we can handle. The

time delay that we currently get will running a zone 2 and then using a separate phone for Bluetooth is 10-15 seconds. So you walk away from the beach hearing the end of the verse and then you get to travel back in time and hear the verse again at the porch .

You get it out of the house just like an electrical job- drill holes, install some kind of conduit, seal the holes and use weather-resistant junction boxes. Use flexible liquid tight metallic conduit and make sure there's a way to see where it is, so nobody digs through it. Home Depot and other big box stores have everything you would need.

You want to use speaker cable that's rated for direct burial, too.

Is this place near salt water?

 

[mx416]

You get it out of the house just like an electrical job- drill holes, install some kind of conduit, seal the holes and use weather-resistant junction boxes. Use flexible liquid tight metallic conduit and make sure there's a way to see where it is, so nobody digs through it. Home Depot and other big box stores have everything you would need.

You want to use speaker cable that's rated for direct burial, too.

Is this place near salt water?

Nope on the Salt water

 

[lovinthehd]

If you get good wifi reach out at the beach perhaps a wifi solution would be easiest? Thinking something like using Chromecast Audio units....syncing them is one reason I bought several.

 

[mx416]

@highfigh @lovinthehd. Either Bluetooth or Wi-Fi would probably be a better bet. My parents probably are not going to like the idea of new conduit coming out of their stucco just for some speakers on the beach. I have though about a Wi-Fi extender on the porch to get good coverage on the beach.

 

[lovinthehd]

@highfigh @lovinthehd. Either Bluetooth or Wi-Fi would probably be a better bet. My parents probably are not going to like the idea of new conduit coming out of their stucco just for some speakers on the beach. I have though about a Wi-Fi extender on the porch to get good coverage on the beach.

I think BT has more inherent delay if you mix, not sure how it does with "synced" devices? I do know the Chromecast Audio units work well in groups (of your designation), I use mine for simultaneous whole house/deck stuff when I'm moving around/having folk over....

 

[mx416]

My parents already have chrome stick i believe.

 

[lovinthehd]

My parents already have chrome stick i believe.

Audio Chromecast is a bit different, not sure you can group the hdmi chromecast units as well.....

 

[lovinthehd]

But last I looked still some NOS Audio Chromecast units out there (and they have their own dac, so you can connect analog or digital as you wish)

 

[mx416]

What’s the Bluetooth options your folks were thinking of?

I should also clarify I am trying to get decent sound to the beach. For example better than just a couple JBL flip 4’s.

 

[highfigh]

What’s the Bluetooth options your folks were thinking of?

I should also clarify I am trying to get decent sound to the beach. For example better than just a couple JBL flip 4’s.

Miccus- I used one of their pieces when I did the audio upgrade in a school gym and the morning I found out about it, I thought the same as I had for years- 'BT sucks'. Then, I saw and heard a smart phone sending music to a powered amplifier with BT over 90' away and after I went back to look into it, I found that 'BT has come a long way'.

Eight hours after seeing it during my search, the Miccus piece was delivered and I tested it by walking way as my iPhone 6 streamed to it, counting my steps as I went. I passed the point where a $250 BT receiver had stopped only about 25') and was very surprised when it continued at the end of my 100+ foot long driveway. I walked across the street and decided to walk to the sides, to avoid walking into the neighbor's yard. I went to the West and it didn't stop, so I went East, o see how it would react to my house being in the way- it never stopped and I was probably 150 feet from the receiver AND my brick house blocked my view of the garage, where the Miccus was connected.

By 9:30 AM the next morning, it was connected and tested- zero dropouts from any point of the full basketball court and it only cut out after I walked outside. This BT receiver is mounted under the audio rack behind the school gym's stage and the signal has to pass through three cinder block walls.

Check the link- it has analog & optical inputs AND outputs, can be used as a transmitter or receiver and the range is better than they show, at least for use as a receiver. Oh, and it sounds far better than I expected. I mentioned the price of the BT receiver that DIDN'T work- check out the price for these- you may be surprised. Their tech support people were very helpful and easy to contact, too.

I used the 2.0 in the first link, but at this point, I would get the one in the 2nd link because of its added features-

Home RTX 2.0

Best Bluetooth Transmitter for TV, PC or Gaming wireless audio! FAST & FREE SHIPPING! Compatible with 99% of TVs, Samsung, Sony, LG & more. Works with Playstation PS4 & Nintendo Switch. aptX Low Latency adapter. No lip sync problems. Listen as you walk freely around your home or yard. Optical...

miccus.com

Better-

Home RTX Pro

Next gen Bluetooth long range extender for your TV, Home Stereo, or PC. Bluetooth 5, HDMI or Optical Digital Connection, Automatic Bypass to use with soundbar, certified Qualcomm aptX-HD or aptX Low Latency, Connect two 2 Headphones or speakers

miccus.com

 

[highfigh]

If you want to make it a portable system, you can do that with a cooler that has wheels, a car stereo amplifier, a car battery the BT receiver and some speakers.

 

[mx416]

@highfigh I‘m following you except for one part that I may misunderstand.

If I went with a bluetooth system would i need a Bluetooth receiver both on the beach stereo and connected to the AVR to make sure things are synced and playing from one source (IPhone)?

 

[highfigh]

@highfigh I‘m following you except for one part that I may misunderstand.

If I went with a bluetooth system would i need a Bluetooth receiver both on the beach stereo and connected to the AVR to make sure things are synced and playing from one source (IPhone)?

Yes, but with the Miccus being relatively inexpensive, it shouldn't be a deal breaker. Also, if the trees cause the range to suffer (if my brick house didn't, the trees shouldn't, either), the antenna can be moved by adding an extension cable, which can be found on Amazon or other places (called an SMA cable).

https://www.amazon.com/Superbat-coaxial-Bulkhead-Adapter-Equipment/dp/B07FC8PVZS/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=sma+cable&qid=1669300983&s=electronics&sr=1-4