OPPOs, AMPs, and Subwoofers

[HipSonic]

Hello Audioholics
I am trying to determine if/how I should connect a powered sub to an Oppo blueray player when I want to plug directly to the Amp via the analog outputs. I have two setups, one in the bedroom and the other a basement home theater. In the bedroom I have an OPPO BDP 105 and the amplifier is a NAD M33, and in the home theater, I have an OPPO HUD 205, feeding a Marantz AVP 8805, and an Emotiva XPR-5. Obviously, in either setup, if the OPPOs, are connected via HDMI, to either the 8805 or the M33, where and how to connect the sub is a no-brainer.

The issue is that the OPPOs support file formats that my NAD, and Marantz do not, so when I want to listen to them, I know that I have to directly from the OPPO to the amps via XLR. However since the M33 is essentially an integrated amp being fed an analog signal for amplification, I am not sure which component should feed the subwoofer the LFE signal.

In the home theater, with the OPPO 205 directly feeding the Emotiva XPR-5, it seems a little more straight forward, as the Oppo is the only component producing an audio signal. However in the instance the speakers are GE Triton Reference with powered subs, with the signal to them split via a Y splitter.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[sterling shoote]

Here's how I have made my connections: sub and front/surround channel output from OPPO to a Sony multi-channel preamplifier feeding a 5 channel power amp for front/surround/center speakers and a mono amp for subwoofer. In this arrangement the OPPO manages bass output, as well as output in various parameters to the front, center, and surround speakers. Note, the OPPO must be set for PCM, not DSD, to have it manage bass. I prefer the OPPO's management to bass managed by my preamp. Also note that any source connected to the OPPO's usb B input is not routed to the Bass Management feature, In other words, no bass is directed to the sub, it's all sent to the front channels. I do not like that so for stereo pleasure I have inserted a Parasound P6 into my system to manage bass.

 

[lovinthehd]

What are you missing codec wise via hdmi?

 

[HipSonic]

What are you missing codec wise via hdmi?

The M33 will not play back the DSD files via HDMI(weird right?), as anything I send it digitally, the DAC inside tries to process, therefore I let the Oppo decode the DSD and I output the analog signal to the M33 over XLR. Where I'm confused or probably overthinking, is I want my sub to playback the LFE signal from said DSD files, but I'm not sure If I connect the sub to the Oppo or the M33 as both have subwoofer preouts.

 

[HipSonic]

Here's how I have made my connections: sub and front/surround channel output from OPPO to a Sony multi-channel preamplifier feeding a 5 channel power amp for front/surround/center speakers and a mono amp for subwoofer. In this arrangement the OPPO manages bass output, as well as output in various parameters to the front, center, and surround speakers. Note, the OPPO must be set for PCM, not DSD, to have it manage bass. I prefer the OPPO's management to bass managed by my preamp. Also note that any source connected to the OPPO's usb B input is not routed to the Bass Management feature, In other words, no bass is directed to the sub, it's all sent to the front channels. I do not like that so for stereo pleasure I have inserted a Parasound P6 into my system to manage bass.

Thank you, I will look into what you suggested. I think the difference in my setup the Oppo is being used as a network streamer, or SACD player feeding the M33. However based on what you shared I'm curious on If I should down mix the stereo signal in the Oppo. If you think of anything else, please let me know. Thank you again.

 

[PENG]

The M33 will not play back the DSD files via HDMI(weird right?), as anything I send it digitally, the DAC inside tries to process, therefore I let the Oppo decode the DSD and I output the analog signal to the M33 over XLR. Where I'm confused or probably overthinking, is I want my sub to playback the LFE signal from said DSD files, but I'm not sure If I connect the sub to the Oppo or the M33 as both have subwoofer preouts.

As I have said many times in the past, if one wants to take advantage of the best theoretical (likely not audible most of the time) "sound quality" the best way to do is to use a separate DAC/DAC preamp that can play up to 24/384 and DSD512, and then connect the analog output to the preamp or preamp/processor, or directly to power amp if the DAC volume control combo is a good one such as the BDP-205's (105 is not as good obviously).

So in your case, for multiple channels, you would then connect the Oppo's analog outputs to the AV8805's multichannel inputs, and use direct mode. You will still have the basic bass management but not Audyssey.

For stereo, its simple, just stick to external DAC/DAC preamp and your M33 or AV8805's analog inputs but always use direct mode so you can have the basic bass management and the signal will stay in the analog path through input to output.

For integrated amps with build in DAC, I am not aware of anything in the below $3,000 price point that can do all available high resolution formats, you will be lucky to be able to play DSD256 (may be a few can), most would either cannot do it at all, or up to DSD128. That doesn't mean integrated amps with build in DAC cannot sound good, it just mean they are not really much better than using a receiver or midrange AVR used as preamp/DAC. It is really sad, that manufacturers would save a few bucks by using mediocre DAC chips, knowing the public would readily buy in to the myth that it is "implementation, not the chip itself that matters".

 

[HipSonic]

As I have said many times in the past, if one wants to take advantage of the best theoretical (likely not audible most of the time) "sound quality" the best way to do is to use a separate DAC/DAC preamp that can play up to 24/384 and DSD512, and then connect the analog output to the preamp or preamp/processor, or directly to power amp if the DAC volume control combo is a good one such as the BDP-205's (105 is not as good obviously).

So in your case, for multiple channels, you would then connect the Oppo's analog outputs to the AV8805's multichannel inputs, and use direct mode. You will still have the basic bass management but not Audyssey.

For stereo, its simple, just stick to external DAC/DAC preamp and your M33 or AV8805's analog inputs but always use direct mode so you can have the basic bass management and the signal will stay in the analog path through input to output.

For integrated amps with build in DAC, I am not aware of anything in the below $3,000 price point that can do all available high resolution formats, you will be lucky to be able to play DSD256 (may be a few can), most would either cannot do it at all, or up to DSD128. That doesn't mean integrated amps with build in DAC cannot sound good, it just mean they are not really much better than using a receiver or midrange AVR used as preamp/DAC. It is really sad, that manufacturers would save a few bucks by using mediocre DAC chips, knowing the public would readily buy in to the myth that it is "implementation, not the chip itself that matters".

Thank you for responding. As far as the NAD M33 goes, to be clear, it uses the Blu-OS platform, which only supports DSD to PCM, and it has to be converted before playback. I rather have those files natively decoded which is why in both setups, I'm using the Oppo's (105 and 205) as a Preamp/DAC even though my Marantz 8805's decode DSD natively, the higher voltage from the XLR outputs of the Oppo's just pairs better with both amps IMO. However, my question was more about which device should I connect my subwoofer to (Oppo 105 or the NAD M33), and based on the feedback I've received it seems like I should connect the subwoofer directly to the M33's sub output. I did something similar, connecting a BlueSound Node2i via its RCA outputs to the SACD input of an older Sony receiver, with the sub connected to the receiver's subwoofer outputs and feeling as though that worked well. I will definitely keep you posted and let you know how it does, as well as starting my search for an outboard DAC based on the specs you recommended. Thanks again!!

 

[PENG]

Thank you for responding. As far as the NAD M33 goes, to be clear, it uses the Blu-OS platform, which only supports DSD to PCM, and it has to be converted before playback. I rather have those files natively decoded which is why in both setups, I'm using the Oppo's (105 and 205) as a Preamp/DAC even though my Marantz 8805's decode DSD natively, the higher voltage from the XLR outputs of the Oppo's just pairs better with both amps IMO. However, my question was more about which device should I connect my subwoofer to (Oppo 105 or the NAD M33), and based on the feedback I've received it seems like I should connect the subwoofer directly to the M33's sub output. I did something similar, connecting a BlueSound Node2i via its RCA outputs to the SACD input of an older Sony receiver, with the sub connected to the receiver's subwoofer outputs and feeling as though that worked well. I will definitely keep you posted and let you know how it does, as well as starting my search for an outboard DAC based on the specs you recommended. Thanks again!!

Same for me I always stick with native, or at least DoP but not DSD converted to PCM. I would definitely connect the subwoofer to the M33. It has Dirac Live anyway, so bass management is not an issue at all unless you want to take the "purist" approach.

The higher XLR output voltage could be better in some cases (such as long interconnects and/or certain power amps that have the same gain for both XLR and RCA and have relatively lower gain) but not in most cases, that is, technically speaking only, vs just one's preference for other reasons.

For outboard DACs, if you frequent ASR, you can simply pick one from the top 10 tested/measured, lots of great choices in the $200 to $1,200 range.

 

[lovinthehd]

The M33 will not play back the DSD files via HDMI(weird right?), as anything I send it digitally, the DAC inside tries to process, therefore I let the Oppo decode the DSD and I output the analog signal to the M33 over XLR. Where I'm confused or probably overthinking, is I want my sub to playback the LFE signal from said DSD files, but I'm not sure If I connect the sub to the Oppo or the M33 as both have subwoofer preouts.

I'd just have the Oppo convert to pcm myself....just went back and forth with mine and makes no audible difference I can tell. Sure saves a lot of grief elsewhere....

 

[HipSonic]

Same for me I always stick with native, or at least DoP but not DSD converted to PCM. I would definitely connect the subwoofer to the M33. It has Dirac Live anyway, so bass management is not an issue at all unless you want to take the "purist" approach.

The higher XLR output voltage could be better in some cases (such as long interconnects and/or certain power amps that have the same gain for both XLR and RCA and have relatively lower gain) but not in most cases, that is, technically speaking only, vs just one's preference for other reasons.

For outboard DACs, if you frequent ASR, you can simply pick one from the top 10 tested/measured, lots of great choices in the $200 to $1,200 range.

Thank you. I'm not sure what ASR is, please enlighten me.

 

[HipSonic]

I'd just have the Oppo convert to pcm myself....just went back and forth with mine and makes no audible difference I can tell. Sure saves a lot of grief elsewhere....

I guess I could do that in the meantime. Where would I find that option, would it be in the audio playback?

 

[lovinthehd]

In my 203 at least it's Setup Menu > Audio Output Settings > SACD Output where choices are auto / pcm / dsd

 

[HipSonic]

Thank you, Sir. I really appreciate that.

 

[PENG]

Thank you. I'm not sure what ASR is, please enlighten me.

No problem, here's your top 20, by SINAD (reciprocal of THD+N):

Shenzhenaudio Topping EX5 Review (DAC and Headphone Amplifier) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

If you have questions, just ask..

 

[HipSonic]

Aww Man, you guys are the best!! Thank you. I was just looking a review of the topping D90SE on SoundNews.net.

 

[lovinthehd]

Try this one too https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90se-review-balanced-dac.24235/

 

[sterling shoote]

The conundrum here is bass management can be performed by the OPPO, the Processor, the sub, or portions can be controlled by both Processor and OPPO. My suggestion is use the processor, since the OPPO-205 has no routing of bass management of some stereo, like usb B. And in fact because the OPPO's bass management is for the most part a PCM multi-channel feature I now only use the OPPO for multi-channel entertainment. One more thing, wanting to use the OPPO as a network player is limited since it will not do "gapless" thus making bass management for that source, no matter where the management originates, an effort that will not transcribe to a desired outcome.

 

[lovinthehd]

My Oppo 203 has gapless playback over wifi from foobar2000 I'm pretty sure....altho I have little that requires it, will have to play with that again....

 

[sterling shoote]

My Oppo 203 has gapless playback over wifi from foobar2000 I'm pretty sure....altho I have little that requires it, will have to play with that again....

My OPPO-205 does not do Network gaplessly and usb B is sans bass management. The Network anomaly does not concern me; however, the usb B not having routing to bass management does bother me, a lot. The remedy was to just connect my laptop running iTunes via usb to my Parasound P6 Preamplifier, which is a 2.1 concept, having sub out low pass filtering , as well as high pass mains filtering. At any rate, the OPPO-205 is now used only for UBD and 5.1 SACD entertainment, which pretty much is the reason I purchased the unit.

 

[lovinthehd]

My OPPO-205 does not do Network gaplessly and usb B is sans bass management. The Network anomaly does not concern me; however, the usb B not having routing to bass management does bother me, a lot. The remedy was to just connect my laptop running iTunes via usb to my Parasound P6 Preamplifier, which is a 2.1 concept, having sub out low pass filtering , as well as high pass mains filtering. At any rate, the OPPO-205 is now used only for UBD and 5.1 SACD entertainment, which pretty much is the reason I purchased the unit.

Also using Foobar2000?