Opinions Wanted On Biwiring Klipsch Speakers

[bosco_62]

Hi everyone what are your opinions on biwiring klipsch speakers? I recently purchesed a pair of Klipsch RF82's and they give me the option to biwire them. If I do biwire them what difference in sound should I hear or if I will hear any difference in the sound at all? And is biwiring worth it? Thanks.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi everyone what are your opinions on biwiring klipsch speakers? I recently purchesed a pair of Klipsch RF82's and they give me the option to biwire them. If I do biwire them what difference in sound should I hear or if I will hear any difference in the sound at all? And is biwiring worth it? Thanks.

A waste of time and wire. This practice is over hyped. Some speaker makers just accommodate the hi end market by providing this capability.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Come to think of it, some time back a poster sent an email to this speaker company engineers about this.
It is a marketing department decision, not derived in engineering.

 

[bosco_62]

Hi thank you for your insight which makes alot of sense. Out of sheer curiousity I went ahead and biwired one of of my RF82's and to my suprise I heard and difference in the quality of the sound, not a big difference but a noticable one. I noticed that lows went slightly deeper and the highs were more crisp sounding.
My sense of hearing is very hightened since I'm legally blind, so maybe thats why I heard a difference. I also didn't know what difference if any in the sound to expect due to the fact that I had no basis to refer from. I do believe however obviously results will very from no difference to a significant difference depending on the type of speakers and equipment one maybe using.
Once again thank you mtrycrafts for your input which is so true about the marketing departments ambitions. Your definalty right about that.

 

[PENG]

Hi thank you for your insight which makes alot of sense. Out of sheer curiousity I went ahead and biwired one of of my RF82's and to my suprise I heard and difference in the quality of the sound, not a big difference but a noticable one. I noticed that lows went slightly deeper and the highs were more crisp sounding.
My sense of hearing is very hightened since I'm legally blind, so maybe thats why I heard a difference. I also didn't know what difference if any in the sound to expect due to the fact that I had no basis to refer from. I do believe however obviously results will very from no difference to a significant difference depending on the type of speakers and equipment one maybe using.
Once again thank you mtrycrafts for your input which is so true about the marketing departments ambitions. Your definalty right about that.

Good for you, and I am not surprised. Electrically, there is a difference (some people even denies this fact for whatever reasons) in terms of how the signals are carried from the amp to the speaker. Whether it translates into any audible difference, if you do a search, you will find much debates on this topic.

 

[sivadselim]

A waste of time and wire.

Out of sheer curiousity I went ahead and biwired one of of my RF82's and to my suprise I heard and difference in the quality of the sound, not a big difference but a noticable one. I noticed that lows went slightly deeper and the highs were more crisp sounding.

Good for you, and I am not surprised.

Exactly.

It doesn't waste very much time nor money.

If it sounds better bi-wired, real or imagined, more power to you. Go for it. Your opinion is the ONLY one that matters.

 

[Sheep]

Exactly.

It doesn't waste very much time nor money.

If it sounds better bi-wired, real or imagined, more power to you. Go for it. Your opinion is the ONLY one that matters.

So you recommend spending hundreds on cable risers, even if they don't make an ACTUAL difference?

OP,

This is the mind playing tricks on you. In order for those claims to have and base, you need to hear both speakers blind, not knowing which one is biwired, and then see if you can hear a difference. Personally, I think this wiring method is useless, and should be named "Buy-wire", cause that's all you're doing. It can make a difference, if you have an insufficient size wire running to the speaker. Biwiring will help in that regard, but it doesn't make a speaker play lower, and all you need is 1 14ga wire per speaker to make biwiring useless.

SheepStar

 

[bosco_62]

Well I didn't spend hundreds of $$$ I just used two pieces of 12 gauge wire of the exact same lenght that I already had, thats how I tested it. Believe me you, I'm not one to spend hundreds of $$$ on something that will not make a major difference.

 

[sivadselim]

So you recommend spending hundreds on cable risers, even if they don't make an ACTUAL difference?

No, I didn't say that. At all. Did I?

 

[PENG]

This is the mind playing tricks on you. In order for those claims to have and base, you need to hear both speakers blind, not knowing which one is biwired, and then see if you can hear a difference. Personally, I think this wiring method is useless, and should be named "Buy-wire", cause that's all you're doing. It can make a difference, if you have an insufficient size wire running to the speaker. Biwiring will help in that regard, but it doesn't make a speaker play lower, and all you need is 1 14ga wire per speaker to make biwiring useless.

SheepStar

I bi-wire my Veritas (the speakers that you like). I cannnot hear the difference but since I know enough electrical theory about bi-wire I am not surprised when someone claimed to be able to hear the difference. Just because I can't hear something, doesn't mean others cannot.

I left the Veritas bi-wired anyway, it allows me to measure the currents flow into the LF and H/MF drivers separately. My 12 ga. wires are short so it doesn't cost much at all.

 

[Haoleb]

Hi thank you for your insight which makes alot of sense. Out of sheer curiousity I went ahead and biwired one of of my RF82's and to my suprise I heard and difference in the quality of the sound, not a big difference but a noticable one. I noticed that lows went slightly deeper and the highs were more crisp sounding.
My sense of hearing is very hightened since I'm legally blind, so maybe thats why I heard a difference. I also didn't know what difference if any in the sound to expect due to the fact that I had no basis to refer from. I do believe however obviously results will very from no difference to a significant difference depending on the type of speakers and equipment one maybe using.
Once again thank you mtrycrafts for your input which is so true about the marketing departments ambitions. Your definalty right about that.

That sure shut Mtry up quick. No offense Mtry but your not the know all end all of Audio. Nor am I. Rather than say that he wont hear a difference and its stupid is mainly based on your own experiences and perhaps those of others. But rather, maybe you should be a little more open and say that he may or may not notice a difference, more likely not. Just a suggestion. I Biwire my speakers, and no I dont hear a difference. I didnt even test to see if I heard a difference because I dont think I would have. And i dont care! But I had the wire laying around and it didnt hurt anything so why not.

We all must base our advice on personal experience and beliefs, But we shouldnt go around telling folks with less experience that what we say is a definite. Sometimes this is the case. (EX-Do i need a phono preamp, cant i just plug it into cd or aux?) but not, what are your opinions on biwiring my speakers.

Thats just MY OPINION

 

[mtrycrafts]

Your opinion is the ONLY one that matters.

Obviously others opinions mattered to him as he asked, otherwise he would not have, right?

Now, if it is imagined, why does one need to do all that work to imagine a difference?

Certainly there is no real evidence from bias controlled comparisons that it makes an audible difference so, that leaves only one conclusion.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That sure shut Mtry up quick.

You think it did??? Hardly. I just don't sit here 24/7 to respond.

No offense Mtry but your not the know all end all of Audio.

Never claimed to be. Obviously he wanted others opinions and I gave mine based on available data.


Rather than say that he wont hear a difference and its stupid is mainly based on your own experiences and perhaps those of others.

Actually, it is based in lack of any credible evidence that it makes an audible difference, period. I don't trust unreliable experiences or perceptions.
He just had such an unreliable experience and perception. Obviously he was just looking for a supporting opinion. No matter. My input was free.


But rather, maybe you should be a little more open and say that he may or may not notice a difference, more likely not.

Why??? That is a false and unreliable input to him, to appease him.

I suppose I should tell people about homeopathic medicines that perhaps it will help them? You have the wrong person to do that.

I Biwire my speakers, and no I dont hear a difference.

OK. That is a preference. Nothing wrong with a preference.


We all must base our advice on personal experience and beliefs,

Why???
No wonder there is so much hype, mythology, bs, voodoo, urban legends floating around.
Personal experience does not guarantee factual events or reality. Might as well seek the help of psychics.



But we shouldnt go around telling folks with less experience that what we say is a definite.


Oh, no? I suppose then 2+2 could be 4.5???

 

[mtrycrafts]

and I am not surprised. c.

Surprised at what?

 

[mtrycrafts]

[ My sense of hearing is very hightened since I'm legally blind, so maybe thats why I heard a difference. ]

It has not been shown that blind people have a better, lower threshold of of sound detection.
What you perceived is natural under uncontrolled and flawed comparisons.
But, you are happy and that is all that matters.

 

[Nick250]

That sure shut Mtry up quick. No offense Mtry but your not the know all end all of Audio.Thats just MY OPINION

Agree or disagree with Mtry, know that he has done his homework and has evidence for his comments unpopular though some maybe. Is he always right? No. Are you? No. Am I? No. No need for the snippy comments Haoleb.

Nick

 

[bosco_62]

Hey everyone, didn't mean to start such a heated discussion , Well thank you for all your inputs and opinions.

 

[PENG]

Surprised at what?

Surprised at, no I meant not surprised that he heard a difference. Actually for the following two reasons.

Firstly, the electrical theory:

You obviously know Ohm's law, Kirchoff's law, Ampere's law and Friday's law etc. As such, you probably know that I am right about the fact that bi-wire makes a difference in terms of how the H/MF, LF signals travel from the amp's output terminals to the now physically separated loudspeaker input terminals (that in turn, separates the internal XO networks resulting in two signal paths with different impedance characteristics). If not, please re-read some of our debates on this topic or search the web. I could only find one short article on the web that tried demonstrate why there is no electrical difference, but it was unclear if the author was talking about a properly bi-wire scheme.

As to how the resulting difference in signal flows affect the speaker's response, many manufacturers including Axiom and B&W claimed it could in some cases, improve the sound. Anyone can read the detailed explanation on their sites.

Secondly, perception:

Theory alone does not always reflect reality due to many limiting factors. The limited hearing ability in human is one of the factors in this case. Bosco claimed that his hearing sense is very heightened, and the way he asked the question seemed to me he was well prepared to hearing the somewhat expected audible difference to him.

mtry, overall I think I only disagree with you on one point, in that I do not believe we know enough to state with certainty that no one can actually hear a difference.

 

[Sheep]

No, I didn't say that. At all. Did I?

You said,

If it sounds better bi-wired, real or imagined, more power to you. Go for it.

How is this way of looking at things different from what I said?

Do you only believe in certain voodoo, or all of it? If he said he spent $1000 on wire risers, would you say "Good, you think it made a difference, that's all that matters"?

If he buys a little pepple to stick on his amp, that costs $100, and thinks it makes a difference, would you say "Good, go for it"?

You're giving bad advice, all of which is false.

SheepStar

SheepStar

 

[mtrycrafts]

mtry, overall I think I only disagree with you on one point, in that I do not believe we know enough to state with certainty that no one can actually hear a difference.

I would like to see it properly demonstrated by someone at least
Perception is not always reality. Knowing when it is is the question. Accepting a report as his is a big mistake, even if it turns out to be reality under controlled conditions. It is a disservice to him, IMO, to encourage this as reality based on such a poor comparison as his.

Bosco claimed that his hearing sense is very heightened

Yes he did. But as I have posted, testing blind people do not bear this out:

R. Bucklein, 'The Audibility of Frequency Response Irregularities,' JAES vol 29, no 3, 1981, page 126-131.