Open Baffle

[Sponge]

Hello members, I am new to this site and I don't know if open baffle speakers have been talked about much.
I built a pair with two 15" woofers and a B&C driver and horn.
I am wanting to sell these and noticed there is not, other than a passing interest in this design.
What are your thoughts about this type of non-cabinet construction.
Thanks. Glenn
PS. I was trying to attach some pics but the message says file too large.

 

[Pogre]

PS. I was trying to attach some pics but the message says file too large.

I run into that here sometimes too. If you have an app or program to resize the images and make them smaller the site will let you upload them. I'm using an android app and usually go 40-50% smaller depending on the size.

 

[Sponge]

Thanks Pogre. I was able to resize using Window Office.

 

[lovinthehd]

An easier way than MS Office I think is just right clicking on the picture file you want to resize and select edit, will put it in paint with a resize option....at least in W10.

Nice looking speakers! Last open baffles I had were the Carver Amazing Speakers several years back....haven't tried another since.

Might put a classified ad here on AH....but I think generally people are hesitant to buy DIYs.

 

[Pogre]

I have to admit, I'm unfamiliar with those. So basically a boxless speaker?

 

[lovinthehd]

I have to admit, I'm unfamiliar with those. So basically a boxless speaker?

Yep, radiates front and back. Electrostatics are somewhat similar. Usually proper placement is necessary for best results (like out in the room more than most WAF would allow).

 

[TLS Guy]

Yep, radiates front and back. Electrostatics are somewhat similar. Usually proper placement is necessary for best results (like out in the room more than most WAF would allow).

Yes, but the diaphragm is small relative to the wavelength of the speakers involved. So as the cone moves forwards the positive pressure wave at the front immediately cancels the negative pressure wave at the back. This markedly reduces bass output.

So massive active Eq is required, and bass output is quickly limited by the x-max of the drivers. Since there is no back pressure wave the only restoring force is the suspension of the drivers.

The whole design is terminally inefficient as a bass reproducer.

 

[slipperybidness]

Hello members, I am new to this site and I don't know if open baffle speakers have been talked about much.
I built a pair with two 15" woofers and a B&C driver and horn.
I am wanting to sell these and noticed there is not, other than a passing interest in this design.
What are your thoughts about this type of non-cabinet construction.
Thanks. Glenn
PS. I was trying to attach some pics but the message says file too large.

It also tends to be quite difficult to sell DIY speakers, a lot of people see that as a risk. So, a not-common open baffle design, and a DIY build both work against you.

With that being said, looks like nice work!

 

[Pogre]

They do look really cool.

When I was looking up more info on the open baffle design I stumbled across this page. He makes some interesting observations. I can't say much to his credibility (I just don't know),tho the name Linkwitz seems to carry some clout in the audio world. Are these accurate observations or should I be looking elsewhere to learn?

Here's an excerpt: Open baffle loudspeakers reproduce bass with less room interaction. It is more articulate than from box speakers.

He also says the same thing the good doctor said about being very inefficient at the same time. He points out strengths and weaknesses in both designs (box and open baffle).

 

[slipperybidness]

They do look really cool.

When I was looking up more info on the open baffle design I stumbled across this page. He makes some interesting observations. I can't say much to his credibility (I just don't know),tho the name Linkwitz seems to carry some clout in the audio world. Are these accurate observations or should I be looking elsewhere to learn?

Here's an excerpt: Open baffle loudspeakers reproduce bass with less room interaction. It is more articulate than from box speakers.

He also says the same thing the good doctor said about being very inefficient at the same time. He points out strengths and weaknesses in both designs (box and open baffle).

Seriously!

Linkwitz was legendary. Granted, he had many odd-ball designs under his belt. Literally thinking outside the box.

But, I believe the Linkwitz-Riley filter was his original claim to fame:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linkwitz–Riley_filter

 

[Pogre]

I also came across his video with Paul McGowan. (PS Audio)

Paul seems to be very knowledgeable and will tell you that sonic improvements always start with the speakers first, which I'm on board with. However, I stopped watching his videos when I caught a couple of them where he claims that cabling absolutely has an impact on sq. He swears there are audible differences and "No, I'm not going to do any blind testing because I know it absolutely has an impact."

That got my hackles up. Why, if you're confident in your opinion, would you refuse to test it?

 

[baronvonellis]

How does a open baffle speaker work? What is the advantage to it, if the sound cancels out from the back?

 

[Swerd]

How does a open baffle speaker work? What is the advantage to it, if the sound cancels out from the back?

An open baffle speaker is any speaker that projects sound equally in two directions, to the front and back. This diagram, from Wikipedia, shows this. They radiate sound in a figure 8 pattern.

The sound coming from the rear is out-of-phase with the sound coming from the front. If this rear wave bounces off a wall, it's reflection will project forward in-phase with the speaker's front wave. This can sound good, but it requires careful room placement of both the speakers and the listener. It can be difficult and frustrating for an owner to get this right. If you listen while off to the side of a dipole, 90° off-axis, the bass sound of the front and rear wave cancel each other, resulting in very little sound. This can sound disturbingly odd, or it can help eliminate unwanted reflections from side walls.

Because dipole speaker radiate sound equally in two directions, they are less sensitive than monopole speakers that radiate only forwards. Often, this can be somewhat improved with equalization. Linkwitz's dipole designs were well known for carefully done equalization that resulted in very good sound. Still, these speakers required careful room placement to sound good. I've heard dipoles that I do like, but I've never wanted to try to deal with their disadvantages in my family room.

 

[Trell]

I'm not quite that baffled any more

 

[kini]

http://www.spatialaudio.us/

If I had the money I would love to try out a pair of these.

 

[baronvonellis]

An open baffle speaker is any speaker that projects sound equally in two directions, to the front and back. This diagram, from Wikipedia, shows this. They radiate sound in a figure 8 pattern.
View attachment 30354
The sound coming from the rear is out-of-phase with the sound coming from the front. If this rear wave bounces off a wall, it's reflection will project forward in-phase with the speaker's front wave. This can sound good, but it requires careful room placement of both the speakers and the listener. It can be difficult and frustrating for an owner to get this right. If you listen while off to the side of a dipole, 90° off-axis, the bass sound of the front and rear wave cancel each other, resulting in very little sound. This can sound disturbingly odd, or it can help eliminate unwanted reflections from side walls.

Because dipole speaker radiate sound equally in two directions, they are less sensitive than monopole speakers that radiate only forwards. Often, this can be somewhat improved with equalization. Linkwitz's dipole designs were well known for carefully done equalization that resulted in very good sound. Still, these speakers required careful room placement to sound good. I've heard dipoles that I do like, but I've never wanted to try to deal with their disadvantages in my family room.

So why would you want one? Sounds like they have alot of issues and are difficult to use. Do they have any benefits?

 

[Pogre]

So why would you want one? Sounds like they have alot of issues and are difficult to use. Do they have any benefits?

Here's an excerpt: Open baffle loudspeakers reproduce bass with less room interaction. It is more articulate than from box speakers.

That was one reason, in my earlier post. Clicky. Some interesting observations in general.

 

[lovinthehd]

I also came across his video with Paul McGowan. (PS Audio)

Paul seems to be very knowledgeable and will tell you that sonic improvements always start with the speakers first, which I'm on board with. However, I stopped watching his videos when I caught a couple of them where he claims that cabling absolutely has an impact on sq. He swears there are audible differences and "No, I'm not going to do any blind testing because I know it absolutely has an impact."

That got my hackles up. Why, if you're confident in your opinion, would you refuse to test it?

More that Paul sells a lot of bullshit....


Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

All in all, from what I gather is, the open baffle design can sound very, very good, but is extremely dependant on placement to the point that they just won't work in most living/listening room setups.

 

[Pogre]

More that Paul sells a lot of bullshit....


Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

Yeah, he does sell some of the poop too. I started watching his series of videos and was quickly turned off when he started in on fancy cabling and interconnects delivering superior sq.