Onkyo's TX-SR80X series intends to stay out of the heavyweight division

[jostenmeat]

Actually I have to disagree with you Peng and Jostenmeat on this. About a year ago I discussed this very issue with an Onkyo engineer regarding the heat issue and using the 805 as a preamp. He said that when used as a preamp it bypasses the amp section altogether, so the impendence selector switch could be on 4 or 6 (he even said if there was a 2 it could be set there) doesnt matter, since the amp section is bypassed altogether. And the Voltage rail is not needed since the amp isnt driving any load and is being bypassed to the outboard amp which is driving the speaker.

Here is a review that says the wattage drops 40 watts when the 4 ohm selection is made. Specifically, from 135 to 95 watts. They say:

"Like other receivers I have checked on, it uses less electricity at idle when it is set to 4 ohm: about 95 watts drawn from the wall as compared to 135 watts when in the 6 ohm setting."

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/onkyo-tx-sr805-receiver-9-2006-part-5.html

I use mine strictly as preamp and have my cooling fan (one fan blows in while the other blows out) at the back right corner directly over the video chips and everytime I turn off my gear I place my hand on top of the reciever to make sure the fan is doing it's job and the front section is very cool to the touch, in fact like it was barely on. The area above the video chips is also cool due to the fans and the only section that is slightly warm is the left back corner and just behind the heat sink (towards the back).

I also found this post from the person who I respect most out of the regulars at the 805 thread. In fact, I requested a while ago that he become an AVS "friend", because of his spot-on, eloquent, and intelligent posting history.

He used fans. He gave that up in favor of the 4 ohm setting! Read for more details.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16188246&postcount=18977

There have been many many articles published about proper impendence selectors and most will say to use the 8ohm setting (the Onkyo engineer said to keep it at 6ohm even if running 4 ohm speakers) but if that's not enough here is an article from Audioholics own site regarding setting impendence and voltage rail effects by selecting a lower impendence and how by setting it to 4ohm you are giving up dynamics and cutting the amperage.

http://www.audioholics.com/buying-guides/how-to-shop/av-receivers-buying-guide

Audioholics - "What Doesn't Matter?

Oh, I remember that one. No doubt. Someone in particular was throwing me plenty of red chiclets for even mentioning the possibility where 4 ohm could be a desirable setting. So, I remember well, lol. PENG prolly remembers too.

For another example of someone who might not agree with the AH article, this is by another 805 owner that I respect quite a bit, a DIY speaker builder.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15489376&postcount=92


However*, my argument here is not about which impedance selection is better, for I would also agree the ideal is to use the full capability of the amplifier, but in fact a different issue entirely, which was stated as "fact", yet IMO is most contrary to the truth.

 

[MatthewB.]

Thanks JM, good to see both sides, but prefer to take the advice the Onkyo engineer gave me, but can see your side as well.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Oh dear Lord,

http://www.weather.com/outlook/homeandgarden/home/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USAZ0166?from=homealmanac

There is Phoenix's average high and low's Throughout the year.

As always the average state is actually the mean and an average temperature is actually a range of the 1st standard deviation from the mean.

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/CAXX0518?from=homealmanac

I believe that's your town.

You can see that Arizona is significantly hotter than where you live

The temperature is hotter at night than it gets during the day in vancouver.

Thanks Mister report weather man.

I thought that people were freezing at night, at the bottom of the Arizona desert. You know, on the low part of the canyon.

I'm not living in Vancouver, I live in Victoria.
But I'm from Montreal.

Anyway, the blood that runs through my veins, can go from minus 60 degrees (-60) Fahrenheit, to plus 240 degrees (+240) Fahrenheit.
It all depends of my actual mood (usually from audio...).

My good buddy Robert told me that when he was camping in the Arizona desert, he was freezing at night!

 

[Lordoftherings]

I know a lot of people concerns about Onkyo receivers, as running hot and be scared away by this.

I personally own the Onkyo TX-SR805 and the TX-SR876, but let me assure you of this fact: * They do run hot, but not in a negative way. It is their video processors that run hot, and not the amplifier section itself. *
-> And that, again, is a FACT. Also, this issue is a lot diminished with their recent models, in particular their 07 series.
And it is not a serious issue at all, if you take the right precautions, which is to leave some space for allowing the air to flow freely, in particular on top and rear of the unit. But this, is the same with any Power Amplifiers, Integrated amplifiers, Stereo Receivers, or A/V Multichannel Receivers.
It is always well indicated in their instruction manuals, at the very beginning.
* But for people that must enclose (not recommended) their receivers inside their cabinet, without proper air circulation, here's a quick, cheap, easy, simple & efficient solution:

@ http://www.coolerguys.com/comcool.html

Now, I thought of adding a link here, that you might be interested to read.
But, take it for what it is, no more no less.

* Has Your Onkyo 605/705/805/875/905 Blown Smoke, Popped Sparks, Caught Fire? *

@ http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=916212

Nice day everyone,
Bob

Hi Josten,

I wanted to quote myself, so we can see what I said, before.
Looking at it, I will say that I should have used another word, perhaps, instead of using the word "Fact". I do realise that. And I understand your distress.

So, I like to apologise for using what now appears to me, an inappropriate word. I totally understand your point of view, and I truly respect it.
Not that it's an offensive word, cause it's not, but it is a very powerful word, that may upset few people, just like it did for you.

I'm happy to realise that now. And in the future, I will refrain myself to use that word, EVER. And I really mean it.
Because everything in life is relative, and constantly changing. So there is no factual events that ever happens; it's only what we believe what happens.
Well, not exactly that, but something close to that effect.

Anyway, what this all means, is that I do understand now, I finally realised it, and I'm sorry that I upset you, by using this inappropriate word. I feel sad, not because I did wrong, but because my post could have been better. And also because you're a nice guy, and I don't like to keep grudges against people, even the ones that don't like me. Because, after all, I do respect my enemies, and I love them equally as my friends.

And this, is true. I do hate few people sometimes from my lost of emotional control of the moment, but it's only that, from that moment. It is my deep desire and goal in life, to always recoup myself and be fair with life, even when it's not.
It is a vey hard thing to do, but if I don't do it, nobody else will, for me, but me.
And, true Freedom, is let go of your grudges and all that kids stuff with chicklets.

Sincerely & my regards to you Josten,
Bob

 

[jostenmeat]

Hi Josten,

I wanted to quote myself, so we can see what I said, before.
Looking at it, I will say that I should have used another word, perhaps, instead of using the word "Fact". I do realise that. And I understand your distress.

OK, noted. Thank you.

And this, is true. I do hate few people sometimes from my lost of emotional control of the moment, but it's only that, from that moment. It is my deep desire and goal in life, to always recoup myself and be fair with life, even when it's not. It is a vey hard thing to do, but if I don't do it, nobody else will, for me, but me. And, true Freedom, is let go of your grudges and all that kids stuff with chicklets.

Sincerely & my regards to you Josten,
Bob

OK. I'll try to not think about your extraordinarily caustic PM to me yesterday. There were a lot of put-downs there! Yeah, no kidding that I should be very lucky that you are not a mod! lol. we will carry on. I try to forgive, but I don't forget, and so realize that the ice is still not extremely thick. See you in the next interesting thread.

 

[PENG]

Thanks JM, good to see both sides, but prefer to take the advice the Onkyo engineer gave me, but can see your side as well.

Hello MatthewB, don't be so sure that you were talking to a Onkyo engineer. I have had written to a few manufacturers and I knew I wasn't talking to an engineer or technician every time. What they told you, while typically wouldn't be far off from the truth/facts, may not be 100% correct either. I actually have more faith in the bench test that Jostenmeat linked, that somehow at the 4 ohm setting the power consumption dropped from 135W to 95W. These numbers were not far from my guessimate (post #40) so I am pleased.

However, a 40W difference is still not significant when compared to the much more power in the form of heat that needs to be dissipated when the unit is delivering say half, to near rated power. Again, in most home use, you won't feel much more heat whether you are using the internal amps or not because as has been said many times by members that in most cases our multichannel amps are only lighly loaded in terms of average power. Those momentary high peak power events don't general much heat at all.

One interesting note, the PR-SC885 or 886's consumption is 1.1A. At 120V, that is 132 VA. Assuming a power factor of 0.85 (my educated guess again), power consumption = 132X0.85=112.2 watts. That's quite a bit better than the bench test results of the 805 that uses the Faroudja for VP vs the SC885's Reon!!

As to who agrees with who, in my case:

- agree with Jostenmeat that using the 4 ohm setting the unit will run cooler, but only when the internal amps are working really hard.

- agree with Jostenmeat that using the 4 ohm setting would result in less consumption and less heat generated.

- disagree with Jostenmeat that using the 4 ohm setting would result in the unit running much cooler (but slightly cooler) when idling, i.e. internal amps not used.


- agree with matthewB that when using the unit as a prepro only, it still runs hot. (Facts: 95 to 135W, most of that has to be dissipated as heat, try touching a 100W incandescent light bulb)

- agree with matthewB that when using the unit as a prepro only, the internal amps are not used therefore should not be producing much heat (there will be some but not much).

- disagree with matthewB (might have been LOTR/Bob) that most of the heat are from the VP. I believe the heat mainly comes from the 7 preamps (highly inefficient). 10 to 20 watts from the P/S and some from the VP.

Remember, at rated load, class A/B amps do have to dissipate close to half of the power consumption in the form of heat. That will be a lot more than the 110 to 135W total power consumption by the prepro alone. The reason why in real world, the prepro will account for most of the heat generated is that the average home user will not be using their AVR to anywhere near the rated load condition.

So to conclude, LOTR, Seth, matthew, Jostenmeat are all correct in saying that the thing runs hot during idling, only the reasons they, okay let's say, we cited, are not totally correct.

Have I got most everything covered? Are we all happy now?

 

[Lordoftherings]

OK, noted. Thank you.

OK. I'll try to not think about your extraordinarily caustic PM to me yesterday. There were a lot of put-downs there! Yeah, no kidding that I should be very lucky that you are not a mod! lol. we will carry on. I try to forgive, but I don't forget, and so realize that the ice is still not extremely thick. See you in the next interesting thread.

Oh, I did forget about that PM. Right. I did not use any rough language though, I made sure of that. But in my nice choosen words, I was very emotional; and now I'd like to apologise too for that one, because today, I'm not in that mood at all. You have too much good in you Josten, for me to do anything wrong towards you. Again, please accept my very sincere apologies from yesterday's PM to you. I certainly not think the same way today, believe me.
And thank you to be honest and reminding me of it, I really wish that I can come back in time, and erase that note.
I ow you big time, and I'll try my very best to equalize the situation with the right and fair fixes.
And you know what Josten, deep down, I really like you; I like your finesse when you talk about Classical music, because I feel very close myself, Classical music is a very important part in my life. And if we both can relate through that, we can do a lot more good.
You have my full apologies again one more time, please forgive me, you are truly my brother in spirit and also from the same color of blood. Our Dad is the same Dad, Adam. And we have the same Mom, Eve.
Anyway, that's what I think, and that's also what I truly believe.

Have a great evening,
Bob

 

[PENG]

=Classical music is a very important part in my life.

Me too Bob, too bad you can't buy good quality CD, SACD, DVD-A from most stores these days. The only one I know has half decent collection is the big 3 storey HMV in down town Toronto. Their inventory seems to be depleting as well. Vinyl ones are even harder to find. Do you know of any online places to shop, that offer decent prices. Amazon.com prices are rediculously high.

 

[Lordoftherings]

That's a very good effort you put into that post Peng. I really enjoyed reading it. I'll go with it, I'm in a good mood today. Even if I don't fully agree with one small point; but that point is so small, that it's not worth mentioning. Besides it won't change anything in our daily lifes, and our Onkyo receivers will keep running their due course.

And you know what guys? I was thinking about others reading this thread! Wow! What a human tragedy it was (or it is)! LOL. I cannot resist of just laughing about this entire littte escapade that got us so cranked up. We are so stubborn in our audio convictions, that we became exactly that; convicts. LOL. Audio convicts, or Audioholics; who realy cares. LOL.
I mean, really...

I rather laugh about it now, about you?
I really feel a happy ending here.
I hope that everyone else is having the same state of mind than I do.

Bobby

 

[Lordoftherings]

Me too Bob, too bad you can't buy good quality CD, SACD, DVD-A from most stores these days. The only one I know has half decent collection is the big 3 storey HMV in down town Toronto. Their inventory seems to be depleting as well. Vinyl ones are even harder to find. Do you know of any online places to shop, that offer decent prices. Amazon.com prices are rediculously high.

I agree, I used to buy all my Classical CDs and SACDs at A&B Sound in my home town, Victoria. But they close all their stores across Canada, now a year ago.
For LPs, no problem, I got a few second hand stores that are still in business, with the coolest people around, I just love it.
I think what I miss the most, is my A&B store, because I knew the people there for over 15 years, and they were all very good friends. And not only that, but I was one of the top 3 best customers in all Victoria area.
That's something, because you have your own personal card that allows you 20% off, every single day, 365 days a year.
But I have to be honest here; I was spending on average about $500 every single week, just on music recordings. I still have all my receipts fot the last 15 years. I spent over $200,000 easily in just that one store.
And I ain't kidding either. I used to make over $300 a day, or more (up to $500), for many many years. Then, I was making $1,000 a day minimum. Best days, I was making in the 4 digits; that's over $10,000/day. I was managing my own money, after I fire about 3 or 4 money managers. I was buying my own stocks with my own personal money that I save over many years of hard sacrifice.
I've been there in a very hard and true way.

So, I use to play with a lot of money, and I spent a lot on music recordings, trust me. You don't have the smallest idea about my true addiction on music. I ain't saying that in a down way, but in a very unique way, because I know about zero person in my actual life surroundings that even come close to my audio passion.
But in the audio forums, I do meet some people with few similarities, not many though. And there are quite a few people that just cannot comprehend the intensity and the truth of my story. Some people simply don't believe me.

Anyway, I have it all at one point. Now I'm broke and a totally different person, with no money, but a much bigger passion about audio, trust me, you can mark my words.

Classical piano listening is my #1 reason for living. If music was not part of my life, I would have been dead long ago. I'm crying as I type this, honest...

Sorry, I need to .. a break. ... I'll talk you later. ....

I'm back. I love all music. The type of music that I was addicted the longest and still am, is the Blues, the Jazz. It's only in the last 5 to 10 years that Classical music grew more and more. Now I can see that it will grow even more.
But I'll never give up my true roots, BLUES. And of course I play music instruments myself for over 40 years, but everyone here knows that by now.

Sorry Peng, but I don't buy Classical music any more. So, can't help you there, my friend. All my new recordings are now mainly free. That's right, directly from the vast and great selection of my library. So, I just record what I like.
I hope people realise that you can get an amazing choice of any type of music you like, for free, at your local library. Life is so simple now.
What used to be an expensive hobby is now the free world. Eureka, I found it. If I need new equipment, I just save few bucks from my disability, which is very little, and get the best value things, like my 805, and 876. For speakers, I just replace the tweeters over the years, and I don't party anymore, so no need to crank it up. and blow up everything in the neighborhood. And trust me, I had many cops over the years at my places, at 4 or 5, or 6:00 A.M. in the morning. I had neighbors complaining about loud music, from almost the other end of my street block.
The only places that I was free was in the moutains, in the bush, away of the society, of the cities. But then, it was hard to visit me, because you needed a 4x4 to get to my places. So, hard access, less parties.

I'm a writer, I'm a poet, and I'm also a philosopher. Van Morrison is one of my favorite folk/soul singer.

Today music is free, it's everywhere, at your library, on the internet, and everywhere between. If something you cannot get, just get it from people that can get it. Google it. Read music reviews, new recordings, Gramophone, and all that. Call your friends, and ask them to record you some. I record a lot of music for my family and friends.
If you live near where I live, come on now in my kitchen, and we'll dance till the wee hours. Stay till you're so sick of listening to music, you'll wish you'd never come in the first place.
What's make me really tic in life? Of course, misik.

Ok, I must be at the end of that post now; that was an emotional one, where I cry, and where I realised that I got few very good friends around, somewhere, in front of their computers, and typing on their keyboards. Who really knows who we really are?
Only from words on a screen. But can you make those words to produce music?

On that note...

 

[Biggiesized]

Bob, you REALLY need to get a hold of your life.

You guys are all way off topic.

I do believe the next 80X receiver will be called the TX-NR807.

 

[septim]

I think it's a bit of a mistake to keep the 807 so weak. They had a chance to lure the massive amount of 805 users to try out PLIIZ height.

What a sad year for AVRs, except for Marantz whose X003 series is surprisingly good.

 

[MatthewB.]

Peng fantastic post and I agree, but also should mention that different people choose 4 or 6ohms for all reasons, if heat can be controlled (fans) then I tell people use 6, if not then 4 is a great option.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Bob, you REALLY need to get a hold of your life.

You guys are all way off topic.

I do believe the next 80X receiver will be called the TX-NR807.

Music is the one that get a hold on me. And me,... I just try to hold of on my very few remaining green chicklets, but it's a very tough thing to do, for a guy like me.

We are always on topic, the 805, 806 & 807 are this very exact topic that gets us so addicted in our ...
We must blame Onkyo for that.

You are very right, the new one is the TX-NR807, with the Network port.