Onkyo SR805 and two chan sound

[ematthews]

Why is it that I CAN NOT get good audio sound when I listen to CD's on my Onkyo SR 805? I have Martin logan sub and Klipsch RF82 speakers and movies are insane on this set up. Sound is best I have listen too.
However, I listen to 2 channel music a lot more than watch movies. When I listen to a normal CD it sounds like crap. I have been through every setting and just can't get a good sound. It sounds very flat. Bass isn't big enough and treble is not high enough.
So I listen to cd's on an old 2 channel Onkyo {cheap} and 20 years old, through some Polk speakers. I do have an Audio Source EQ hooked up to it. The sound is great.

Since the old Onkyo is having issues of cutting out, it's time to build a new system.
However if I can somehow get the 805 to sound like a good HI Fi two channel then I don't need to spend a dime. Help......

 

[jonnythan]

What you're experiencing is what flat frequency response sounds like. You're used to car audio and headphones with bass and treble super overemphasized.

 

[ematthews]

What you're experiencing is what flat frequency response sounds like. You're used to car audio and headphones with bass and treble super overemphasized.

So is this what I can expect from anything I build without an EQ?
I am looking at a few different brands to build it I have to.
Marantz
Nad
Emotiva
Yamaha

 

[jonnythan]

Pretty much, yes.

I listen to music on my main system mostly using iTunes. I have the system auto-calibrated and it sounds great with video content... but in iTunes I have the EQ enabled to the "Rock" preset.

 

[baniels]

Few questions...

• How are you connecting the source to the 805? (hdmi, optical, analog?)
• What listening mode are you using? (stereo, direct?)
• Do you want your subwoofer to be in the picture for 2-channel listening?
• Audyssey enabled, yes?

I've had the 805 for a little over 3 years. Most of that time I was using somewhat sub-par mains (mid-level vintage 3-ways). During that time I always listened to music in Stereo mode, never Direct or Pure Audio, because I couldn't live without the subwoofer in the picture. I had always assumed that Audyssey was the bee's knees across the board. Thus, Audyssey was always enabled - and in the Stereo mode, Audyssey was working its magic.

Fast forward to this summer. I finally finished my mains. They are plenty capable down to the upper 30's in-room. Suffice to say I spent a lot of time playing around with configurations; sub yes/no, Audyssey on/off, Stereo/Direct, hdmi, analog, etc.

It was quickly evident that Audyssey was crippling the sound with music. With the mains in the receiver set to Large, they send nothing to the subwoofer. With this configuration, I can easily toggle between Stereo mode and Direct. This essentially toggles between Audyssey on and off with just a brief gap in the playback. It was very clear to my ears that Audyssey was NOT improving the sounds - it was making it worse.

After some searching, I discovered that the 805 only has the Audyssey Reference target curve, which is not flat. There are more modern receivers that also have a flat target option, but the 805 does not. Onkyo even names this flat target "Music" and the Audyssey Reference target "Movies" in their such enabled devices. You can read more about that here and here.

Try it for yourself and see. If you find a similar result, you have a few options.

If you need a sub, you would need to disable Audyssey (a hassle assuming you like its results for movies, like me). OR use bass management in your source (if it's an option) and send 3 analog signals to the Onkyo in Multich-Direct mode.

If you don't need a sub, just use Direct or Pure Audio mode on the Onkyo.

 

[ematthews]

Pretty much, yes.

I listen to music on my main system mostly using iTunes. I have the system auto-calibrated and it sounds great with video content... but in iTunes I have the EQ enabled to the "Rock" preset.

Would you be able to answer the above question that I posted.
Would building a dedicated integrated amp with cd player and good speakers continue to have a more FLAT sound with out the use of an EQ?

The tri tone setting on the Marantz PM8004 has cought my eye. However I have been told that there is just as good if not better systems for cheaper than the Marantz...Like a Cambridge or even the cheaper Yamaha...OR Emotiva

 

[jonnythan]

Would you be able to answer the above question that I posted.

What part of "yes" did you miss?

 

[ematthews]

OOPS
Guess I had selective reading on that one. Sorry
Bummer. Wish They made some good EQ's still

 

[agarwalro]

When I listen to a normal CD it sounds like crap. I have been through every setting and just can't get a good sound. It sounds very flat. Bass isn't big enough and treble is not high enough.
So I listen to cd's on an old 2 channel Onkyo {cheap} and 20 years old, through some Polk speakers. I do have an Audio Source EQ hooked up to it. The sound is great.

On the lines of points regarding 'accurate sounding systems' made earlier, the only way to tell if you have inaccurate sound it to create an FR plot as shown here. Ideally, you would use measurement software combined with a good sound card and a calibrated mike. But, a cost effective, albeit, laborious way is to get an Radio Shack SPL Meter, play a Test Tones CD on the system and plot the measured SPL. The Test Tones CD link has directions on how to create the FR plot . Doing this will tell you if your room is causing any issues in sound and if you have any suck outs in the bass and treble ranges or a mid range peak.

Note: The RS SPL Meter is inaccurate in the lower and upper frequency ranges and there are corrections for it. The 'plot the measured SPL' link has an Excel form where you can enter the reading and it will automatically correct and show the graph.

 

[markw]

A lot depends on what one expects of their "music" system. I've Heard a lot of systems that pop my eyes out on movies but leave me disappointed when listening to music.

But, when I go looking for a system I being music, not movies, for test material. Once I find a pair of speakers (no subwoofer used here) that sound good to me on music, I'll go and get the matching center channel and surround speakers.

That's because I've found that a system that sounds good for music will sound at least as good on movies. The opposite is not always the case, as you're finding out.

But again, a lot depends on what one expects of their miusical reproduction. I've always found M/L does a pretty good job on music. I've also found that very little music requires a subwoofer.