S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
One thing I find ironic in all of this is that when countries turn to fascist governments, it usually happens during some economic desperation, but the US economy is doing OK on the whole. This has to be some kind of precedent. I haven't read any aftermath analysis, but I do think simple sexism has a role to play here: a lot of Americans simply didn't want a woman as president or at least deemed her less 'strong' (even though Trump is an addle-brained narcassist who is easily manipulated with flattery).

Another factor is that Harris' campaign was mainly pushing idealogy- that Trump was a fascist- but that is too heady for a lot of people who only care about what affects them directly. Most people are not students of history and are not well read in the consequences of competing 20th century political idealogies. They don't know what a fascist is exactly, and the word has been abused a lot in recent years and so has lost meaning in popular vocabulary.

Another partial explanation is that supposedly in the last few days, there was a flood in social media of misinformation like Harris was going to outlaw christianity, Harris was going to confiscate everyone's pickup trucks and guns, Harris was going to put a 200% increase on gasoline, etc. To educated people, those types of claims are absurd, but look at the reading comprehension of the average American. Many people are getting their news from Tictok and Twitter these days rather than credible news sources. I am guessing that had an impact.

Needless to say, everything is about to get worse. The Republican's didn't run on any serious policies but rather a nebulous anti-establishment caompaign. Some of the policies that Trump proposed would almost certainly results in a recession. The economic consequences of his proposed tarrifs would be able to do that on their own, even if he only did a quarter what he promised to do in that regard. But there is also the promise of firing a million civil servants; these aren't like firing minimum wage workers, they are much more highly compensated and thus have a greater economic impact as lost wages, and furthermore, some of the agencies that Trump's team is proposing to axe will have real economic fallout since they do serious work that keeps society afloat. And imagine what the economic fallout of withdrawing from NATO will do. That will also empower the BRICs group, which will come at the expense of the west and mainly from the USA. The USA has more to lose here than western Europe.

Should Trump keep any of these promises, we are in for a recession, and if he tried to keep all of them, that will be a very severe recession, and what's more, a recession where he has promised to cut out many of the social safety nets that can soften the blow for those who has lost income (wanna guess what that will do to the crime rate?) This all depends on how seriously he takes his campaign promises. The only good news is that his brain is so scrambled at this point he may not remember or care what he said he was going to do.
 
Last edited:
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
One thing I find ironic in all of this is that when countries turn to fascist governments, it usually happens during some economic desperation, but the US economy is doing OK on the whole. This has to be some kind of precedent. I haven't read any aftermath analysis, but I do think simple sexism has a role to play here: a lot of Americans simply didn't want a woman as president or at least deemed her less 'strong' (even though Trump is an addle-brained narcassist who is easily manipulated with flattery).

Another factor is that Harris' campaign was mainly pushing idealogy- that Trump was a fascist- but that is too heady for a lot of people who only care about what affects them directly. Most people are not students of history and are well read in the consequences of competing 20th century political idealogies. They don't know what a fascist is exactly, and the word has been abused a lot in recent years and so has lost meaning in popular vocabulary.

Another partial explanation is that supposedly in the last few days, there was a flood in social media of misinformation like Harris was going to outlaw christianity, Harris was going to confiscate everyone's pickup trucks and guns, Harris was going to put a 200% increase on gasoline, etc. To educated people, those types of claims are absurd, but look at the reading comprehension of the average American. Many people are getting their news from Tictok and Twitter these days rather than credible news sources. I am guessing that had an impact.

Needless to say, everything is about to get worse. The Republican's didn't run on any serious policies but rather a nebulous anti-establishment caompaign. Some of the policies that Trump proposed would almost certainly results in a recession. The economic consequences of his proposed tarrifs would be able to do that on their own, even if he only did a quarter what he promised to do in that regard. But there is also the promise of firing a million civil servants; these aren't like firing minimum wage workers, they are much more highly compensated and thus have a greater economic impact as lost wages, and furthermore, some of the agencies that Trump's team is proposing to axe will have real economic fallout since they do serious work that keeps society afloat. And imagine what the economic fallout of withdrawing from NATO will do. That will also empower the BRICs group, which will come at the expense of the west and mainly from the USA. The USA has more to lose here than western Europe.

Should Trump keep any of these promises, we are in for a recession, and if he tried to keep all of them, that will be a very severe recession, and what's more, a recession where he has promised to cut out many of the social safety nets that can soften the blow for those who has lost income (wanna guess what that will do to the crime rate?) This all depends on how seriously he takes his campaign promises. The only good news is that his brain is so scrambled at this point he may not remember or care what he said he was going to do.
Some interviews I saw of people in line to vote, I think, or after, they did think there is an economic desperation in their mind, of course. Trouble is when they find out
when it hit, they will blame Biden or Harris, someone else but not the real person. There is no redo. Four years is a long time.

And now the supreme court will get two young judges to reign for 30 years or so.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Another aspect of this is the difficulty in removing a sitting president who goes off the rails.

Removal under the 25th Amendment for incapacity requires a 2/3 vote in both the house and senate (assuming a president invokes this provision).

Removal by impeachment requires a 2/3 vote to convict by the senate.

I can't image how bad it would have to get before 2/3 in the senate would vote to remove or convict Trump.

And, of course, either option would require some time. If a sitting president goes seriously off the rails there's almost no limit on the amount of damage that could be done.

This issue has been baked into the Constitution for many years, but the country has been able to avoid serious problems thus far.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
One thing I find ironic in all of this is that when countries turn to fascist governments, it usually happens during some economic desperation, but the US economy is doing OK on the whole. This has to be some kind of precedent.
Can you please point out where we are even remotely fascist? This hyperbole is an example of why people voted for him in the 1st place.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Can you please point out where we are even remotely fascist? This hyperbole is an example of why people voted for him in the 1st place.
The USA doesn't have a fascistic government yet, but on January 20th...
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
The USA doesn't have a fascistic government yet, but on January 20th...
a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition

Please, using the above Merriam - Webster definition, explain your position. Supporting facts would be helpful.

As far as I know 7 states just did something that the Federal Government failed to do when the Dems were in power for 8 years at a time, and that is put into their State Constitutions protections for abortion access.

How is that possible under a fascist federal government?
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Let's pick this conversation up in four years' time. I will set my alarm.
On your 'we will be 1930's Germany'? Sure. When I pointed out that Biden froze during the Los Angeles fund raiser I was told he was just trying to 'speak to someone in the first row'. I said I would wait to pick the convo back up after the 1st presidential debate.

Only fair.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition

Please, using the above Merriam - Webster definition, explain your position. Supporting facts would be helpful.

As far as I know 7 states just did something that the Federal Government failed to do when the Dems were in power for 8 years at a time, and that is put into their State Constitutions protections for abortion access.

How is that possible under a fascist federal government?
See post #3268. Then get back to me.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
I think everyone being distracted by fascism and racism Trump will be able to overturn the 19th amendment without anyone noticing what he’s up to until it’s too late.
 
T

Tankini

Senior Audioholic
On your 'we will be 1930's Germany'? Sure. When I pointed out that Biden froze during the Los Angeles fund raiser I was told he was just trying to 'speak to someone in the first row'. I said I would wait to pick the convo back up after the 1st presidential debate.

Only fair.
Nothing gets passed without Congress, checks and balances you pick the losing side.
 
T

Tankini

Senior Audioholic
Another aspect of this is the difficulty in removing a sitting president who goes off the rails.

Removal under the 25th Amendment for incapacity requires a 2/3 vote in both the house and senate (assuming a president invokes this provision).

Removal by impeachment requires a 2/3 vote to convict by the senate.

I can't image how bad it would have to get before 2/3 in the senate would vote to remove or convict Trump.

And, of course, either option would require some time. If a sitting president goes seriously off the rails there's almost no limit on the amount of damage that could be done.

This issue has been baked into the Constitution for many years, but the country has been able to avoid serious problems thus far.
BS! Congress didn't remove Nixon or Clinton. Say what!! Still crying huh.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
Nothing gets passed without Congress, checks and balances you pick the losing side.
I’m not real excited about the Republicans controlling the White House, Senate, the House and SCOTUS, just way too much power. That said how many investigations have been launched against Trump, how many intelligence officials lied to Congress and America about Hunter Biden and the Steel Dossier? Two assassination attempts glossed over by the media along with inadequate Secret Service protection. If Trump is unhinged as many think and he decides to get revenge it will be very ugly. SCOTUS has given the Presidency almost complete immunity and Biden recently signed an order allowing the US military to kill US Citizens on US soil. I’m pretty conservative (not Republican) and I’m more than a little concerned about the next 4 years. No it’s not the end of Democracy but a lot of people could go to prison very quickly, some need to. It gets worse before it gets worse
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I’m not real excited about the Republicans controlling the White House, Senate, the House and SCOTUS, just way too much power.
agreed, but isn't funny how Dems all of a sudden 'love' the Filibuster again ;)
 
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