Old TV

[supervij]

Can these problems with my TV be fixed?

I've had my 27" Sony KV-27FS12 for about five years now. When I first bought it, the picture was absolutely beautiful. You could see the scan lines (I think that's what they're called), but all in all, I was very impressed with the video quality.

Over the last few months, I've been noticing something that bothers me a lot. Whenever the image has a straight line (wall, door, sidewalk, etc.) which is not completely horizontal, it seems to broken up into tiny horizontal lines following the diagonal. Despite the visibility of the scan lines, it wasn't very noticeable before, but it seems to happen a lot these days.

I noticed the same when watching a slideshow on CD, along with weird movement of some of these lines, as if they were swaying back and forth very quickly. When I brought this same CD to a friend's house, his TV didn't show this weird "staircase effect" with the moving lines.

These things I've noticed on regular TV (analog and digital), slideshow CDs, full-screen DVDs, and a little bit on recorded shows on VHS. Other than this, the picture quality is still stellar.

The strange thing is these were never problems in the first few years of owning the TV -- only in the last several months. Is this the beginning of the end for my beloved Sony? Is there some adjustment I can do that will eliminate (or at least reduce) this huge visual distraction? Or do you think it's a lost cause?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

cheers,
supervij

 

[supervij]

At the advice of one guy, I reduced the sharpness on my set from halfway up the scale down to zero. I watched some DVDs, some TV (digital and analog) and some VCR stuff. The zero setting for the sharpness has helped in the reduction -- but not elimination -- of those tiny horizontal lines that follow a diagonal line. Cool beans!

But that weird dancing staircase effect is still there. Any ideas on how to eliminate (or at least reduce!) this annoyance?

cheers,
supervij

 

[MDS]

It could just be that after 5 years, the convergence is way off and the set needs to be recalibrated to get the electron guns to converge properly.

 

[krzywica]

I would agree, I usually do convergence calibration once every couple months on my 65" crt. Another thought is that a crt is prone to the effect of magnetic fields. For example if I changed my sub location from left side to right side it would have a huge affect.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I would agree, I usually do convergence calibration once every couple months on my 65" crt. Another thought is that a crt is prone to the effect of magnetic fields. For example if I changed my sub location from left side to right side it would have a huge affect.

Yep, mag field will do it too but the color is also affected slightly.
He may need a general tuneup with a calibration DVD

 

[krzywica]

"He may need a general tuneup with a calibration DVD."

That's funny with a 27" is that even possible without million dollar equip.

 

[w.e-coyote]

In case the issues you are having are indeed related to magnetic fields, you should be able to simply de-gauss the TV. Usually you can do this by turning off the TV fully and turning it back on. In case you are in the US/Canada the TV won't power down but instead go into standby (red led always on?). In that case just unplug the thing and plug it back in. Typically magnetic field interference is quite visible because of very local (for example close to the subwoofer as someone described earlier) color artefacts like a blue haze and visible color "ripples".

However, I am not sure whether this is the problem. I do not pretend to be a video guru but the "jaggies" you're describing make me think of a de-interlacing/scaling problem. The fact that the lines seem to move, could on the other hand point to a combfilter issue. In either case the problems are quite a bit more severe.

Any other thoughts out there????

 

[supervij]

Wow! Lots of advice! Okay, so I unplugged the TV and left it unplugged for about ten minutes. Checked, and that dancing blue/green field is still occasionally there. Then I unplugged the subwoofer, and still it was there. I plugged the sub back in and didn't really notice much difference.

Then it occurred to me: would better cable connections improve things? I've got my DVD player connected with component cables, so there's not much I can do there (aside from upgrading the DVD player). But both my VCR and my digital set top box are connected by a single composite cable. Would using S-video for each improve this problem?

These dancing lines are most evident when there's a still image on the screen. The lines dance around like mad. With moving images, it's much less evident, but I can still see it happening occasionally.

Calibration-wise, I've been wanting to get my hands on an Avia disc, but they're bloody expensive! There's a seller on eBay who has them for $33 CDN ($28 US), and I'm thinking of buying that. The low price makes me think they're either stolen or burned copies or something, though. I dunno. Anyway, I might have to grab the DVE down at my local Future Shop. There's a guy who lives one town over who does these calibrations on the side, but I'm sure that's a pretty pricey option too.

w.e., I hope these problems aren't too severe and can be solved relatively easily. I'm starting to wonder if this TV has just had it and if maybe it's time to buy a new one. Sigh. And right after I spent most of my savings on the receiver and speakers!

Anyway, thanks for all the replies, guys. Any more ideas on things I can try?

cheers,
supervij

 

[w.e-coyote]

Using S-video cables will certainly improve video quality, escpecially for the sat receiver, it won't do as much for the VCR but it will help.

On the color issue and diagonal jaggies, the obvious question would be whether anything has been changed in the set-up and connections. It may be worth a try to remove all connectors, clean them up a bit and make sure the connections are good. Another thought could be to swap the inputs, for example change the DVD input from Aux1 (or External1)to Aux2 and see if that has made any difference. It could be the input circuitry is acting up.

If it is really a matter of gradual decreasing performance, you might try to give it good whack to see it that changes anything... Other than that I'm out of ideas and am afraid you'll need to start thinking about saving up. Sorry about that. :-(

 

[supervij]

I haven't changed anything, w.e. But I will try removing everything and reconnecting. What do you suggest I use to clean up the connectors? A damp towel, or is there some chemical product I should consider?

Giving it a good whack?! That's like asking a parent to hit his favourite child!

Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna try everything I can to save the TV, but yeah, I'm also gonna start saving up. Sigh. And now, let the research begin . . .

cheers,
supervij

 

[MDS]

Then it occurred to me: would better cable connections improve things? I've got my DVD player connected with component cables, so there's not much I can do there (aside from upgrading the DVD player). But both my VCR and my digital set top box are connected by a single composite cable. Would using S-video for each improve this problem?

That makes me think of another possibility. I have to wonder if what you are seeing is 'dot crawl' - a phenomenon that can occur with composite video (google for an explanation).

Do you mean that both the VCR and STB are connected to the TV with ONE cable - as in the cable goes from STB to VCR to TV (or vice versa)? If the VCR is in the path, it could affect things because of the Macrovision copy protection in a VCR. Have you tried using a single cable from the STB straight to the TV? That might be a good first step for troubleshooting.

 

[supervij]

Hi MDS. Sorry I was imprecise. I've got a single composite cable going from the STB to the receiver. There's another composite cable going from the VCR to the receiver. From the receiver, I've got a set of component cables going to the TV. I just like the setup this way; I do all my switching at the receiver.

I just googled "dot crawl". That ain't it. Instead of dots moving in one direction, it's more like wavy blue/green lines moving back and forth. I do intend to replace the STB's composite cable with an S-video one.

I don't really want to connect any of the components directly to the TV; I like the switching at the receiver. But I'll try connecting the STB to the TV, just to see if it does help. Thanks for your suggestions, MDS!

cheers,
supervij

 

[supervij]

Okay. I haven't had a chance to pick up an S-video cable yet, but I did play around with connections yesterday. I hooked up the STB directly to the TV with composite, and found that I still had the dancing field. I did the same with the VCR, no change. Same with the DVD player, this time direct with components. Nada. So that means the connections to and from the receiver aren't causing any video problems. What else it could be? No idea. I'm still trying to figure it all out.

Watching "Rescue Me" last night from a VHS tape, I noticed the dancing lines A LOT. Like when there's an apartment building in the background -- all the lines from the bricks, or the balconies, or the edges of the building -- they're all dancing around like a belly dancer on speed. It's getting mighty distracting.

But I guess it all means it's time to start saving up for a new TV. But since it'll be a while before I can even afford a new one, I'll keep playing around with adjustments and whatnot. If anyone has any other suggestions, I'd appreciate hearing them. Thanks for your help, guys.

cheers,
supervij

 

[w.e-coyote]

dot crawl

Not that is makes the situation any better but what MDS described as dot crawl has to do with combfilters. You will see this particularly on composite video or RF input (poor analog signal). It's the combfilters job to seperate the color from the luminance and when it makes a wrong choice, this is what you see. By the way it's quite normal to see the dots crawl in any direction; the combfilter is just not able to latch on to the signal correctly, notices this and tries to correct itself. When it doesn't do this right the filter goes round in circles.

From what you're describing Dapper Dan, the problem seems to be inside the TV. If the combfilter would be at fault, you shouldn't see the jaggies on component input though. This would perhaps point more in the direction of the scaler/de-interlacer?

 

[JohnA]

What do you suggest I use to clean up the connectors? A damp towel, or is there some chemical product I should consider?

I would use some ProGold spray, and maybe some DeoxIT from Caig Labs:

http://www.caig.com/

 

[supervij]

Er . . . Dapper who?

A guy who does TV calibrations on the side suggested that it probably IS something inside the TV set. Scaler, de-interlacer, beats me. I just think it's something that's beyond fiddling with picture controls; somebody needs to get in there. So I'm gonna try a TV repair service. About all I think I can do.

And thanks for the recommedation, JohnA. Much obliged.

cheers,
supervij

 

[ironlung]

Er . . . Dapper who?

A guy who does TV calibrations on the side suggested that it probably IS something inside the TV set. Scaler, de-interlacer, beats me. I just think it's something that's beyond fiddling with picture controls; somebody needs to get in there. So I'm gonna try a TV repair service. About all I think I can do.

And thanks for the recommedation, JohnA. Much obliged.

cheers,
supervij

I had the same problem with my brand new (6 months old) Sony 34" HDTV. Turning the sharpness all the way down helped. There was also a clear edge VM setting in the video menu turning it off totally cleared it up. Its worth a try before you start passing out $20's.

Good Luck,
Ironlung

 

[supervij]

Oh yeah, the Velocity Modulation. I always thought that was a stupid term for sharpness, but whatever. "Sharpens picture definiton to give objects a sharp, clean edge. Options: High, Low, Off." It was already defaulted to low for the Standard picture, and what a difference! The text on Oasis' Definitely Maybe DVD main menu is almost blurry! (Slight exaggeration.) Anyway, thanks for the tip, ironlung; I had forgotten about the VM. I'll give it a go for a while, and see if it does the trick.

cheers,
supervij