Old school separate FM tuners and the lack of integrated circuits

[audioman00]

Picked up a 1980's MCS (whoever that is) fm tuner the other day, and I just wanted to say, I have owned a lot of receivers (tuner built in) and NEVER heard the FM radio sound half as good. I really would have told a person they would be very hard pressed to notice a diff. in the tuners of today vs. the old one. I stand corrected, I have found myself listening to a lot more FM, and really enjoying it, and all because of this $20 tuner I really didn't want or need. Impulse buy! lol. Just wanted to share my experience... take care fellow audioholics! oh, and what do you think about the podcasts? I way dig em'

 

[B3Nut]

MCS was the house brand of J.C. Penney. Most of the components were made by Matsushita (Panasonic) or NEC. Some of the gear was forgettable, but there are quite a few "sleepers" wearing MCS badging.

A lot of these older tuners do an amazing job pulling in signals...it seems FM tuners today are almost an afterthought. The 3701 looks like a Matsushita piece. I'm not at all surprised that it performs really well.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I am betting that a lot of that performance is the result of it being a separate, dedicated tuner. One of today's separate tuners would likely be even better.

 

[Pyrrho]

I am betting that a lot of that performance is the result of it being a separate, dedicated tuner. One of today's separate tuners would likely be even better.

Being in a separate box is irrelevant. In the past, FM was not an afterthought, and many receivers from the 1970's have good tuners, with some having superb tuners. The quality continued into the 1980's. It is simply that manufacturers today generally don't bother with a decent tuner in their receivers. Putting the same crap tuner in a separate box would make no difference.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Being in a separate box is irrelevant. In the past, FM was not an afterthought, and many receivers from the 1970's have good tuners, with some having superb tuners. The quality continued into the 1980's. It is simply that the manufacturers today generally don't bother with a decent tuner in their receivers. Putting the same crap tuner in a separate box would make no difference.

It makes all the difference because, in sharp contrast to the tuner section in a receiver, a tuner sold separately will be anything but an afterthought!
If I cared about radio at all, I would get the Cambridge 340T.

 

[Pyrrho]

Picked up a 1980's MCS (whoever that is) fm tuner the other day, and I just wanted to say, I have owned a lot of receivers (tuner built in) and NEVER heard the FM radio sound half as good. I really would have told a person they would be very hard pressed to notice a diff. in the tuners of today vs. the old one. I stand corrected, I have found myself listening to a lot more FM, and really enjoying it, and all because of this $20 tuner I really didn't want or need. Impulse buy! lol. Just wanted to share my experience... take care fellow audioholics! oh, and what do you think about the podcasts? I way dig em'

A lot of people seem surprised by the old tuners being so good compared with what is typically in modern receivers. However, anyone who reads the specifications (and understands them) will not be surprised. For reasons that are unclear to me, manufacturers generally choose to put lousy tuners in receivers these days (probably it saves a few pennies). The old receivers from the 1970's (and earlier), and going into the 1980's, often had good tuners in them, and sometimes superb tuners. My Pioneer SX-1250 receiver has a great tuner in it. Not the best tuner ever made, but still better than most tuners made, either in a receiver or in a separate box.

 

[Pyrrho]

It makes all the difference because, in sharp contrast to the tuner section in a receiver, a tuner sold separately will be anything but an afterthought!
If I cared about radio at all, I would get the Cambridge 340T.

From a quick look at the specifications for that tuner, it seems quite mediocre compared with a typical receiver from the 1970's. So much for progress and separates.

 

[audioman00]

thanks for the info... I remember matsushita from something in my past.... not sure. The proof is in the listening, and all I can say is that this serparate tuner absolutely sounds 10 fold better than the tuner that was in my rx v850 / 690 / 870 / pioneer sx-636 70's receiver (that one should have been an outstanding tuner) but it really sucked in fact. so... who knows, but I was opting for an old school T1 by yamaha, I used to have one and I knew it was an old tuner, but I wish I would have known how nice of a unit it was and how rare it was... oh well. thanks for all your input my peeps' later!

 

[TLS Guy]

thanks for the info... I remember matsushita from something in my past.... not sure. The proof is in the listening, and all I can say is that this serparate tuner absolutely sounds 10 fold better than the tuner that was in my rx v850 / 690 / 870 / pioneer sx-636 70's receiver (that one should have been an outstanding tuner) but it really sucked in fact. so... who knows, but I was opting for an old school T1 by yamaha, I used to have one and I knew it was an old tuner, but I wish I would have known how nice of a unit it was and how rare it was... oh well. thanks for all your input my peeps' later!

This is a good and timely thread. A good FM tuner, is I feel, an essential music source. I use my Quad FM4 every day. They put you in touch with the music scene with well engineered live concert broadcasts.

Don't forget, that to get the best out of any FM tuner a roof antenna is a must.

I have found Winegard antennas really stand up to the elements.

http://www.winegarddirect.com/cview.asp?c=FM Only Antennas

 

[Seth=L]

There are good "new" tuners out there, but you pay big bucks to get one. You are better off looking for a nice old used tuner than buying new unless having a remote control is a must.

 

[mtrycrafts]

FM Tuner tutorial

Why not spend a little time to read what some highly knowledgeable folks have to say about tuners.

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_23_r.pdf

While it is from 1995/96, it still applies. The first such article is by Dr. David Rich, on pdf page 39 and the magazine page 43, not the same.

Then, a follow on by one of the great designers of FM, Richard T Modafferi, designer of the legendary MR 78.

Enjoy the free tutorial

 

[TLS Guy]

There are good "new" tuners out there, but you pay big bucks to get one. You are better off looking for a nice old used tuner than buying new unless having a remote control is a must.

The Quad FM 3 produced from late 60s to mid 80s is very good value.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Quad-FM-3-Tuner-Good-Shape-Sounds-Great-Made-in-England_W0QQitemZ280198293630QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280198293630&_trksid=p3286.c65.m20.l1116

The Quad FM 4 is a real Rolls Royce of an FM tuner.

http://cgi.ebay.com/QUAD-FM4-FM-TUNER_W0QQitemZ230232033425QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230232033425&_trksid=p3286.c65.m63.l1177

For those into two channel and a love for LPs, this is the finest of preamps.

http://cgi.ebay.com/QUAD-44-CONTROLLER-PRE-AMPLIFIER-WORKS-WONDERFULLY_W0QQitemZ150224149620QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150224149620&_trksid=p3286.c65.m63.l1177

Partner those with a Quad 405 II or a Quad 606 or Quad 909 power amp, and I think you have the best 2 channel electronics you could wish for.

Note if a tuner is purchased from Europe, the de emphasis needs changing from 50 msec to 75 msec, otherwise the tuner will sound bright.

 

[Pyrrho]

thanks for the info... I remember matsushita from something in my past.... not sure. The proof is in the listening, and all I can say is that this serparate tuner absolutely sounds 10 fold better than the tuner that was in my rx v850 / 690 / 870 / pioneer sx-636 70's receiver (that one should have been an outstanding tuner) but it really sucked in fact. ...

I am not overly familiar with the Pioneer SX-636, though I do know it was a fairly low end model in the early 1970's, and therefore not likely to be great (though still likely to be decent). But with all old equipment, there is a higher likelihood of it no longer performing up to specifications. This is the downside to buying an old tuner, but given the prices of so many of them, it is often worth the risk. And, of course, if something is a good design, but not functioning up to its potential due to age, it can be repaired. But I would look for a better model for repair than that one. In your particular case, of course, you already have something else that seems to be working well, so you need not bother with such things. But for others, if they wish to listen to radio broadcasts, they might want to consider something old, especially if they are on a tight budget. A little research will lead them to some of the better models of tuners (either separate or in a receiver).

 

[fmw]

You can still buy a separate tuner that performs like the old ones did. I reviewed my Denon in the reviews section. The major difference is AM. Modern tuners simply don't do AM like the old ones. The Denon is no different. It does excellent FM and its AM stage is garbage like the others.

 

[stratman]

Are you guys familiar with this:

http://www.daysequerra.com/default.aspx

They make some outstanding tuners.

 

[Halon451]

I haven't given tuners much thought because I hardly ever listen to FM radio, and listen to AM radio only when certain talk shows are on. But, if there is a measurable difference in quality between tuners of old and those of new, I would surmise that it is probably due to increased emphasis on other receiver/stereo elements such as Surround Sound, matrix decoding, DSP, XM/Sirius, and all other sorts of "goodies" you get these days. So yes, it would make sense to me that a standard AM/FM tuner in one of these systems is probably an afterthought - thrown in there for the 10% of the people who actually still care, and because Frequency and Amplitude modulated radio waves are still buzzing about our heads. So, less time/energy/cost/research goes into the newer tuners as a result. But they're still there, they are still able to perform, and I have yet to hear anyone complain about theirs, be it a seperate or integrated.

Standard radio is antiquated and on the verge of becoming obsolete, IMHO. People want their "On-Demand" media, via iPods, Satellite Radio, media servers, streaming, whatever...

 

[Hi Ho]

I rarely listen to FM radio (there's nothing to listen to!) but I have found the tuner in my Yamaha RX-V2700 to be very good, definetely well above average. It pulls in stations very well and they sound excellent.

I prefer to utilize the network streaming function, however, and listen to music stored uncompressed on my PC. The only radio I listen to is AM talk, not exactly the pinnacle of good quality sound.

 

[TLS Guy]

I rarely listen to FM radio (there's nothing to listen to!) but I have found the tuner in my Yamaha RX-V2700 to be very good, definetely well above average. It pulls in stations very well and they sound excellent.

I prefer to utilize the network streaming function, however, and listen to music stored uncompressed on my PC. The only radio I listen to is AM talk, not exactly the pinnacle of good quality sound.

Nothing to listen to. What a pity! we are so lucky in Minnesota, to have MPR. What a treasure. Engineering standards are impeccable.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/

 

[TLS Guy]

Why not spend a little time to read what some highly knowledgeable folks have to say about tuners.

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_23_r.pdf

While it is from 1995/96, it still applies. The first such article is by Dr. David Rich, on pdf page 39 and the magazine page 43, not the same.

Then, a follow on by one of the great designers of FM, Richard T Modafferi, designer of the legendary MR 78.

Enjoy the free tutorial

There is a lot of good info for the novice there. I can't emphasize enough that Hi-Fidelity FM reproduction starts with a good FM roof antenna.

 

[Hi Ho]

Nothing to listen to. What a pity! we are so lucky in Minnesota, to have MPR. What a treasure. Engineering standards are impeccable.

I listen to some shows on public radio (like Car Talk) but no music. I don't like constant commercials and repeatedly played songs.