okay, sub/l/r crossover again.

[Buckeyefan 1]

fergusonv: Getting a better sub would be on the top of my to get list. I have a Yamaha 2500 running the 8's, some 4's for side and back surround and a CSi5. It struggles at high volumes. Polks RTi's are power hungry and the Yammy can barely deliver. I am looking at dedicated amps for mine now.

He's right. RTi speakers like current, and most mid level receivers won't deliver. 100 watts is not 100 watts - because peaks in music/movies can demand hundreds or thousands of watts for milliseconds. The capacitors in larger amps and flagship receivers are huge, and will deliver the clean sound during demanding peaks not available in $1000 receivers. The mid level receivers also lack the huge power supplies and heat sinks as seen in dedicated amps. That's why the Yamaha RX Z9 weighs 66lbs compared to the 34lb RXV 2500. The Z9 is one of the few receivers that can handle RTi series speakers.

Have you tried unstrapping the speaker terminals at the back of the RTi8's and hooking the speaker wire to the tops? How do the RTi8's sound at that point (in stereo)? If you feel they sound better, you're best off investing in a nice two channel amp to drive the fronts (strapped, of course). If you decide on purchasing two more RTi8's, you'll want another two channel amp to power those if you plan on playing 5 channel stereo. The amp in the receiver should be able to handle the CSi5 center channel, but they'll be a definite improvement should it have it's own amp.

 

[AVRat]

Hey Buck,
The specs only show a 2.2 kHz X-over, which I’m assuming means that both the 6.5” drivers handle the frequencies below and the tweeter above, which are separated at the terminals. Therefore, I don’t think the unstrapped test will work like your 10s. Or is there more to the 8s that Polk isn’t showing in their specs? Anybody?

 

[bryantm3]

wot would connecting the reciever to the terminals above it do?

 

[zumbo]

wot would connecting the reciever to the terminals above it do?

Run the top mid and tweeter without the lower mid. And, reduce the load on the receiver.

 

[bryantm3]

it sounded tinny and had less punch.

 

[bryantm3]

He's right. RTi speakers like current, and most mid level receivers won't deliver. 100 watts is not 100 watts - because peaks in music/movies can demand hundreds or thousands of watts for milliseconds. The capacitors in larger amps and flagship receivers are huge, and will deliver the clean sound during demanding peaks not available in $1000 receivers. The mid level receivers also lack the huge power supplies and heat sinks as seen in dedicated amps. That's why the Yamaha RX Z9 weighs 66lbs compared to the 34lb RXV 2500. The Z9 is one of the few receivers that can handle RTi series speakers.

Have you tried unstrapping the speaker terminals at the back of the RTi8's and hooking the speaker wire to the tops? How do the RTi8's sound at that point (in stereo)? If you feel they sound better, you're best off investing in a nice two channel amp to drive the fronts (strapped, of course). If you decide on purchasing two more RTi8's, you'll want another two channel amp to power those if you plan on playing 5 channel stereo. The amp in the receiver should be able to handle the CSi5 center channel, but they'll be a definite improvement should it have it's own amp.

i tried this connection and it sounded more tinny and weak, not as much punch. of course, i had set the crossover back to 80 or 60 Hz by this time, and it still sounded weak. so i put them back on the bottom terminals. if upgrading to an RX-V2500 isn't going to do that much and i'm still going to need amps, i might as well go ahead and buy some stereo amps. i can stick those around, but i absolutely have no room for a bigger reciever. the only reason i was considering the 2500 was because i thought it would give me enough power to power 4 RTi8s and a CSi5, without additional help from amps, and considering the 2500 has a similar height, i would be able to fit it. but if i'm going to need amps anyway, i might as well go ahead and buy a stereo amp for the two existing speakers i have now. one question, since the two RTi8s in the rear will be so far back, the HiFi Buys guy says he'll run the wires thru the wall or floor. can i stick the amp near the speakers - no wait nevermind i can't do that. i'd have to have wires going through my fireplace.

 

[bryantm3]

so if i use my pre out jacks, will the reciever put the 100 watts into the speaker, then the amplifier will add the extra wattage, right?
so what wattage rating does this amp need to be?

 

[bryantm3]

bump............

 

[mulester7]

so if i use my pre out jacks, will the reciever put the 100 watts into the speaker, then the amplifier will add the extra wattage, right?
so what wattage rating does this amp need to be?

.....Bryantm3, if you use the receiver to put 100 watts into the speaker, and also use a dedicated slave amp section going to the speaker, you're going to have a fire in the room other than in the fireplace....you "never" use two seperate amp sections paralleled at the speaker terminals....the pre-outs from the receiver send the stereo pre-amped signals to the two-channel slave amp using rca cables....then you run speaker wire to the speaker from the slave amp....that is the only way a receiver is involved if you are using a seperate slave amp to power speakers.....

.....early in the thread you were advised to upgrade your sub....I feel that advice was right-on, considering you took the sub-cut to 160 hz, felt it was necessary, and initially almost found it acceptable.....

.....Buck was right on advising you to power your fronts with a slave amp, and let the receiver handle the center speaker....but....if you desire 8's for rears, or even 6's for rears, I would consider four mono-blocks boasting at least 200 watts a throw at 8 ohm rating....another option would be to secure a quality 5 channel amp 200 per, or 5 mono-blocks 200 per, and use the receiver as a pre-pro only, (signal sender to seperate amp sections)....then again, I'm not that familiar with surround receivers as to whether or not your receiver will send five channels of processing to five amp sections....someone familiar with your surround receiver should now jump in here....I believe you said it is a Yamaha RX-V757.....

 

[zumbo]

It will. That's my set-up.
Yamaha rx-v1400
Adcom 7605

 

[bryantm3]

.....Bryantm3, if you use the receiver to put 100 watts into the speaker, and also use a dedicated slave amp section going to the speaker, you're going to have a fire in the room other than in the fireplace....you "never" use two seperate amp sections paralleled at the speaker terminals....the pre-outs from the receiver send the stereo pre-amped signals to the two-channel slave amp using rca cables....then you run speaker wire to the speaker from the slave amp....that is the only way a receiver is involved if you are using a seperate slave amp to power speakers.....

.....early in the thread you were advised to upgrade your sub....I feel that advice was right-on, considering you took the sub-cut to 160 hz, felt it was necessary, and initially almost found it acceptable.....

.....Buck was right on advising you to power your fronts with a slave amp, and let the receiver handle the center speaker....but....if you desire 8's for rears, or even 6's for rears, I would consider four mono-blocks boasting at least 200 watts a throw at 8 ohm rating....another option would be to secure a quality 5 channel amp 200 per, or 5 mono-blocks 200 per, and use the receiver as a pre-pro only, (signal sender to seperate amp sections)....then again, I'm not that familiar with surround receivers as to whether or not your receiver will send five channels of processing to five amp sections....someone familiar with your surround receiver should now jump in here....I believe you said it is a Yamaha RX-V757.....

do you know of a good quality 5 channel amp, or 200 watt monoblock? i looked on amazon and the only mono amplifiers they have go up to about 150 watts with 8 ohms.

 

[zumbo]

http://audiophileliquidator.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=35_24_53&products_id=224&osCsid=28e7b232a2bdc643a46b8da8900ab476

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?sHist=12-138&menu=true&Page=2&id=17203

This could take some stress off the receiver.
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=2876622

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?sHist=12-138&menu=true&Page=1&id=10568

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=ADCGFA5400&product_name=GFA-5400 Power Amplifier

http://www.yawaonline.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=YO&Product_Code=NAD_C272&Category_Code=AMP

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=PARC2125&product_name=125-Watt THX Ultra2 Certified Two-Channel Amplifier

 

[shokhead]

Wouldnt it be just as good{cheaper} to just have a good enough receiver?

 

[bryantm3]

all the amplifiers listed are 100 and 125 watts. that's none or little advancement over my current reciever.

 

[mulester7]

all the amplifiers listed are 100 and 125 watts. that's none or little advancement over my current reciever.

.....Bryantm3, a company named Outlaw sells quality mono-blocks that are rated 200 watts at 8 ohms, 300 watts at 4 ohms....Model 2200....one will cost you $325....5 of them at that rate would be $1625....but....Outlaw offers a package of 5 for $1222....that's really not bad at all considering what you would then possess to power your 5 main's regiment speakers for most probably a long time....it has been noted at this site that the Outlaw 2200 mono-block only weighs 18 pounds, but that would be 5 channels weighing 90 pounds were the 5 mono-blocks housed in one enclosure....some here have this product and like it very much....another point to notice is, Outlaw products new, are only available direct from Outlaw, and that says something to me as to quality, as per no franchising or discounts for new......

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html
http://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/electronics.html

 

[zumbo]

all the amplifiers listed are 100 and 125 watts. that's none or little advancement over my current reciever.

Trust me. All watts are not created equal. Once you try to drive all channels with your receiver, it will not be anywhere near what you think. The amps listed would all be an improvement. Just depends on how much you want to spend. You simply go from taking stress off of your receiver with the lowest model (Onkyo), all the way to a whole new dimension (Adcom 7605). I really like the NAD 2-channel as well. That might be the best move in the bunch. The RTi8's would love that amp.