OK, anyone want to talk me out of this...?

mzimmers

mzimmers

Enthusiast
...I've done as much poking around as I can, and have tentatively settled on this:
Samsung UN55D7000

This will be for the living room. Viewing distance is about 12', most programming will be sports and movies. Don't particularly care about 3D, though I do reserve the right to change my mind about this in the future.

I haven't found any reviews that compel me away from this choice. Any words of wisdom from the mavens here?

Also: anything I should know about buying online?

Thanks, folks...
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Buying online should only be done with care. If you buy from an unauthorized dealer, you may have no warranty. Check with the manufacturer about any dealers you are considering.

Also, check on the dealer's policies regarding shipping damage and warranty work. You may end up paying for shipping something back if there is a problem.

I personally prefer to buy locally, but I bought my most recent TV online, simply because no one had the TV I wanted locally and I knew I was dealing with a reputable online source with excellent customer service.

Probably, my next TV will be purchased locally, though I had no problems at all.


At 12 feet, that TV is rather small. You might as well have a 720p set, as you will not even see that much resolution unless you have better than 20/20 vision. (With 20/20 vision, you would need to sit closer than 11 feet to see all of the detail of 720p for a 54.6" screen.)


Presumably, you have read some professional review that says that that model is particularly good?
 
mzimmers

mzimmers

Enthusiast
Hey, Pyrrho -

Thanks for the comments about purchasing online. I guess I could ask the local Best Buy if they're willing to price match; then I'm only out the tax.

I found the CNet review to be fairly complimentary, among others. But, I'm more than willing to consider alternatives. Anything you suggest?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
...who just bought a 64" D7000 plasma from Samsung.

Really, I like the Samsung LCDs, but they don't have the black levels I want for a main display in my home. So, while I do have several LCDs in my home, they just don't hold a candle to the performance of a good plasma. The Samsung I would call a good plasma. Plus, at 64", it's closer to the right size for viewing at about 12' in my family room.

I certainly am not going to argue the D7000 LCD from Samsung. I think I prefer the D8000 series, but from the D6400 to the D8000 they all are some of the best looking LCDs on the market. If you aren't crazy critical, even the cheaper D6400 is nice to save some cash.

I will argue the 55" size as it is to small for your viewing distance as Pyrrho said. Obviously I can't come over and beat you into getting a larger size, but I would strongly recommend it. This is also one of those areas where the plasma shines very nicely in getting the larger size without it costing a fortune more.

The 64D7000 plasma - under $2,600: http://www.bestbuypcs.com/samsung-pn64d7000-64-3d-slim-plasma-hdtv-best-price.html?___store=default&ovchn=FRO&ovcpn=Froogle&ovcrn=PN64D7000&ovtac=organic

The 55D7000 LCD - under $1,800: http://www.tristatecamera.com/lookat.php?refid=279&sku=SAMUN55D7000

The 65D8000 LCD - closer to $4,000

There are some obvious price differences which may be of issue (rightfully so) and this is a choice you have to make. If I were to buy a LCD right now, Samsung would be it at a high quality to affordability level and the D7000 is certainly a good choice.
 
mzimmers

mzimmers

Enthusiast
Thanks for the response, BMXTRIX. My *only* concern about plasma is the amount of heat that it emits, and what it will do to my electric bill. How hot does your unit run?

EDIT: I'm also a little concerned about buying such a large TV, since much of what I watch won't be HD. Won't the picture seem somewhat pixellated (if that's the right term)? In any event, I don't think I have the room for the 64" so maybe I'll look at the 59".
 
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Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks for the response, BMXTRIX. My *only* concern about plasma is the amount of heat that it emits, and what it will do to my electric bill. How hot does your unit run?

EDIT: I'm also a little concerned about buying such a large TV, since much of what I watch won't be HD. Won't the picture seem somewhat pixellated (if that's the right term)? In any event, I don't think I have the room for the 64" so maybe I'll look at the 59".
This will give you some perspective on energy use (notice, I have selected TVs close to your revised ideas about size):

Samsung UN60D7000
60" 3D-ready 1080p LED-LCD HDTV with built-in Wi-Fi®

Power Consumption
Normal Power Mode (ENERGY STAR) 105.40 watts
Estimated Cost per Month (ENERGY STAR) $1.93​

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_30560D7000/Samsung-UN60D7000.html?tp=35945&nvpair=FFBrand|Samsung&tab=features_and_specs


Samsung PN59D7000
59" 3D-ready 1080p plasma HDTV with built-in Wi-Fi®

Power Consumption
Normal Power Mode (ENERGY STAR) 183.00 watts
Estimated Cost per Month (ENERGY STAR) $3.35​

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_30559D7000/Samsung-PN59D7000.html?tp=36003&nvpair=FFBrand|Samsung&tab=features_and_specs

The LCD TV is slightly larger, but they are close in size.

Basically, the extra power use is all going into heat. (Imagine the heat from about an 80 watt incandescent light bulb to get an approximation of how much heat the difference is in this particular case; the LCD set also does produce some heat. The heat, though, will be spread out across the TV, and will not be in one spot as an 80 watt incandescent light bulb would be.) Notice, though, the price difference as well; that will cover quite a lot of the electric bill, though one still has the actual heat, which will cause one's air conditioner to work harder in the summer (though it will be an aid to one's heater in the winter). It will also warm whatever is near it.

Also, you would need to look at specific TVs for energy use comparison, as there can be dramatic differences between different TVs of the same type. In general, plasma TVs use less power than they used to, but they still use significantly more power than a well designed LCD TV.


"Pixelated" is not the right word for how a standard definition image will look on an HDTV. If the TV (or video processor for the image prior to the TV) has good upconversion, the image will be soft relative to HD content. If you sit close enough to see all the detail of a 720p image, for example, anything less than 720p will look softer and less sharp than a 720p (or higher) image.

So if you want everything to look perfectly sharp (which you probably do not actually require), you would have to sit far enough away that you could not see the difference between HD and SD, which would make it pointless to have an HDTV at all.
 
mzimmers

mzimmers

Enthusiast
Thanks, Pyrrho...maybe the 59" plasma is the right one for me, then. Now, I just have to decide whether to go with the 6500 or the 7000.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I'm late to this thread, but I see that the OP is heading in the direction that I would also recommend - ie. larger screen size and plasma :)

For certain I would recommend a larger screen size than 55" from 12' away. If you were to follow the SMPTE recommendation of a 30 degree field of view, from 12', SMPTE would recommend a 88.5" 16:9 screen, which, of course, would only be available with a rear projection or front projection setup (or an insanely expensive flat panel :p )

The minimum recommended screen size - which would fill a 24 degree field of view - from 12' away is 70". So even aiming for the minimum, it's tough to find an affordable flat panel at that size. But there are 64" and 65" plasma options as well as 70" LCD options from Sharp and 65" LCD options from Samsung.

It's just something to keep in mind, but basically, with a 12' viewing distance, you should aim for as large a screen as you can manage!

What bothers me the most about all of the large LCD options is that they all have extremely glossy screens. There are no matte screen options, which I think is stupid. Some people don't mind the mirror-like screen surfaces, but they bug the hell out of me! With ANY light in the room, I can plainly see my own reflection staring back at me whenever the scene on screen is dark or has black images. I HATE seeing reflections of myself or the room or light sources, so the super-glossy screens are a total deal breaker for me.

The other trouble spots with most LCDs are uneven screen illumination and off-angle viewing. With edge-lit displays, the lighting behind the screen is not uniform and even. You get some spots that are brighter and some spots that are dimmer, leading to a "cloudy" look on dark scenes. And if you're sitting over to the side, colors shift and dim and the black level often rises or becomes uneven across the screen. Both of these issues are completely eliminated with a good plasma, which has virtually perfectly even screen illumination and off-angle viewing.

With all of that said, I still favor Panasonic's plasmas myself. I've noted on some of the new Samsung plasmas that they still develop some "phosphor lag" - sometimes right out of the box, sometimes after several hundred hours of use. Basically, if you suddenly go from a bright scene to an all black scene, you sometimes get a tiny "ghost" image that lingers for just a moment. I haven't seen that same problem on the newest Panasonic plasmas.

Where the Samsung plasmas really shine is in the lower priced models where Samsung offers far more picture adjustment controls and better color accuracy. Other than the top-of-the-line VT30 models, Panasonic really skimps on the user control options. They certainly aren't bad in terms of color accuracy, but the lower priced Panny's aren't perfect, and you have no means to adjust them so that they are perfect. Your only option is to call in a professional calibrator, or get some professional level calibration equipment and break into the service menu and calibrator's menu yourself :p

Anywho, at the end of the day, I'd get a 65" Panasonic plasma if I were in your situation. The ST30 line is a great choice for lower price, excellent picture quality and the option to use 3D in the future if you want to. I don't have any big problem with getting a Samsung plasma. You can probably do so for a lower price and you will get that more accurate color and more user adjustments. But that "phosphor lag" really bugs me personally, and the Panny's still have a tiny edge in black level performance.

Good luck in your decision!
 
mzimmers

mzimmers

Enthusiast
Thanks for the very detailed reply. It just occurred to me that it might be easier for people to advise me if they saw where the TV is going to go:



What's you're seeing is actually an alcove for the TV. It's probably 30" deep. There's a column of drawers on the left, and an equipment rack on the right.

The problem is, for anything larger than a 46" set, I'll have to remove the equipment rack. No biggie, but I will have to figure out where to put the stuff.

I am a bit concerned about a plasma set in a semi-enclosed area, and the heat that it would generate. But, perhaps it's not that big deal after all.

Any more ideas/comments after seeing the set location? Thanks.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks, Pyrrho...maybe the 59" plasma is the right one for me, then. Now, I just have to decide whether to go with the 6500 or the 7000.
Going with plasma, you will want to engage all of the "screen saver" functions on your gear to avoid burn-in. Usually, if one does that and uses appropriate picture settings, there is no problem with burn-in, unless one watches a significant percentage of material that does not fill the screen. Here are some links dealing with this issue to get you thinking about what kinds of considerations matter:

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_display#Screen_burn-in

http://reviews.cnet.com/plasma-burn-in-seven-things-you-need-to-know/

If you were planning on mostly playing games with static images, or watching a lot of 4:3 material not stretched and with black bars on the sides, you might want to just go with LCD, which cannot burn-in no matter what you do. There is good reason computers do not generally use plasma screens, but typically use LCD instead.

There is no such thing as a perfect TV; it is all a question of which virtues and which vices are acceptable to one for one's particular situation and use.

(At the end of the day, I do not care whether you buy a plasma or LCD, but you should consider the matter carefully before you spend your money, as you will be living with the consequences of your decision, not me. Before you buy a TV, download the manual for it from the manufacturer's web site and read it, including whatever warnings there are in the beginning.)


...
With all of that said, I still favor Panasonic's plasmas myself. ...
So do I.

However, I have not looked at the latest TVs, and have no specific recommendation, which is why I have been silent on that issue up until now in this thread.
 
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BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
See, now after seeing that TV location, I would be completely tempted to build something pretty custom for that space to perfectly hold a 64" TV. Not sure of the exact measurements of your space, but the TVs have full specs on the Samsung website.

The 59" is great as well, but I'm still pushing you towards the 64" due to your viewing distance. There's a LOT of HD out there and the softness of SDTV is more likely to encourage you to switch to more HD viewing than you may realize.

I could see a custom built low profile shelf setup with a center channel dead center, then equipment low and to either side with storage up beside the TV on either side. The TV hanging on a inexpensive mount (see Monorpice!) and towards the front of the built in location.

Note: I've used the Monoprice 'oversized' universal mount (under $40) and it's absolutely one of the best mounts I've used, period. Until the Chief Fusion mounts, I don't think there is anything better regardless of money.
 
mzimmers

mzimmers

Enthusiast
Thanks for the suggestion. I just checked...the 64" even without the stand is too tall to fit with my center speaker above or below it. I'd have to do something exotic for the center speaker, and I'm not sure what that would be.

My current set is 45" and it doesn't seem too small at all...I'm hard-pressed to understand how the 59" wouldn't be big enough.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
It's truly amazing how quickly you get used to a certain size display. The number one complaint people have when they buy a new HDTV? (true) - They wish they had gone to a bigger size.

It's hard to tell from that photo the size of the TV in that space and if it is 4:3 or 16:9. Certainly can't tell what the measurements are of the alcove everything is in. Obviously, if you have to fit the alcove, you have to fit the alcove.

But, at the end of the day, you should be viewing movies on Blu-ray disc typically, or a good upconverting DVD player for your existing titles, and have a subscription to some decent HD cable/sat service. It'll make a significant difference in overall quality of the experience.
 
mzimmers

mzimmers

Enthusiast
I just measured the alcove. The total width is 82". The drawers on the left use up 18" and the rack to the right, 20" leaving 44" in the middle. The alcove is 43" high. I don't mind tearing out the rack, but I'd prefer to keep the drawers.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but at 35" tall (w/o stand), the 65" set is just too tall to co-exist with a center speaker in the alcove.

Now, there is an option...I wonder if I could mount the set to the wall above the alcove? I've got another 17" to play with there, plus it gets the hot plasma set out of the enclosed area. How does that sound?
 

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