Off axis response

[STRONGBADF1]

I was auditioning the Paradigm Monitor7's and was floored by the way the sound hardly changed when moving around the room, and I mean sitting standing and walking completly around the room. If you were in the back 2/3 of the room the only place it really sounded different was dead center in the sweet spot, and that was only a little brighter.

I'm not speaking of imaging just the balance of the sound.

I find it hard to belive that no other company comes close in this regard. Am I missing some thing or just hallucinated the whole thing?

What other speakers could you suggest that do as well as the Paradigms?

I have listened to Def.Tech., Totem , Polk monitor/rti/lsi, Monitor Audio, JBL northridge, Infinity beta, Klipsch ref....and some others I can't remember at the moment.

Thanks,
SBF1

 

[tbewick]

The dual concentric design of Tannoy speakers is regarded as having very good and smooth off axis response. You could also try KEF, as their Uni-Q driver does on paper sound similar to the dual concentric design.

High frequency treble energy will naturally decay off due to dispersion by air. Unless you sit close to the speakers, then it is likely that you won't hear much of the higher frequencies (~8 kHz+). This is maybe why the sound didn't change much when you walked around the room.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I was auditioning the Paradigm Monitor7's and was floored by the way the sound hardly changed when moving around the room, and I mean sitting standing and walking completly around the room. If you were in the back 2/3 of the room the only place it really sounded different was dead center in the sweet spot, and that was only a little brighter.

I'm not speaking of imaging just the balance of the sound.

I find it hard to belive that no other company comes close in this regard. Am I missing some thing or just hallucinated the whole thing?

What other speakers could you suggest that do as well as the Paradigms?

I have listened to Def.Tech., Totem , Polk monitor/rti/lsi, Monitor Audio, JBL northridge, Infinity beta, Klipsch ref....and some others I can't remember at the moment.

Thanks,
SBF1

You are not imagining anything. Paradigm speakers are a product of many years of research at the Canadian National Research Center. Dr Toole was there for 20+ years.
You may enjoy reading a bit of the research findings:

http://miragespeakers.com/nrc_story.shtml

and

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/AudioScience.pdf


Their finding is what is in that speaker.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

You are not imagining anything. Paradigm speakers are a product of many years of research at the Canadian National Research Center. Dr Toole was there for 20+ years.
You may enjoy reading a bit of the research findings:

http://miragespeakers.com/nrc_story.shtml

and

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/AudioScience.pdf


Their finding is what is in that speaker.

Thank you mtry!

Tech reading is not my strong point but I will read all of this. (I read fine but engineers write for engineers mostly and the lay person needs more discriptive writing.) Then I will come back and ask questions if needed.

Thank you again,
SBF1

p.s. still wonder why other companies are so different?

 

[3db]

You can't change the laws of physics

I was auditioning the Paradigm Monitor7's and was floored by the way the sound hardly changed when moving around the room, and I mean sitting standing and walking completly around the room. If you were in the back 2/3 of the room the only place it really sounded different was dead center in the sweet spot, and that was only a little brighter.

I'm not speaking of imaging just the balance of the sound.

I find it hard to belive that no other company comes close in this regard. Am I missing some thing or just hallucinated the whole thing?

What other speakers could you suggest that do as well as the Paradigms?

I have listened to Def.Tech., Totem , Polk monitor/rti/lsi, Monitor Audio, JBL northridge, Infinity beta, Klipsch ref....and some others I can't remember at the moment.

Thanks,
SBF1

before jumping in without looking 1st, I need to know how big the room is, where the speakers are located within the room and where you were relative to the speakers and walls when you heard the perceived changes in sound. Sound waves reflect of off walls. Combine this with the direct sound coming from the speakers and you will hear a difference. I'm a firm believer in addressing the room acoutics 1st before looking for a better speaker. People really underestimate the effects of poor room acoustics on the the perceived sound.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

before jumping in without looking 1st, I need to know how big the room is, where the speakers are located within the room and where you were relative to the speakers and walls when you heard the perceived changes in sound. Sound waves reflect of off walls. Combine this with the direct sound coming from the speakers and you will hear a difference. I'm a firm believer in addressing the room acoutics 1st before looking for a better speaker. People really underestimate the effects of poor room acoustics on the the perceived sound.

3db,

I had thoughts about the room. The room was approx. 18' x 18' x 8' with a drop ceiling. The speakers were about 10' apart, offset to the right by maybe 2' and approx. 15"-18" out from the wall. The couch was 11' form the speakers centered left to right. The room had no treatments and was pretty bare.(the store

I heard very little change in the rear 2/3 of the room. Now if I was up against a wall the sound changed quite abit but from a seated position to standing up the sound really didn't change very much. From standing there to walking around the couch and around the back 2/3 of the room the sound didn't change much at all to my ears. Other speakers I have demoed didn't have that level of uniform preformance around the room. (the deftechs we in the same room placed one foot to the left.)

Any thoughts?

SBF1

p.s. I have read the links mtry posted and will read them again to try to more fully understand what they are saying.

 

[j_garcia]

Unless your room is going to be controlled also, you shouldn't expect that same level of response at home due to furniture, speaker location, walls, windows, etc...

High frequency treble energy will naturally decay off due to dispersion by air. Unless you sit close to the speakers, then it is likely that you won't hear much of the higher frequencies (~8 kHz+). This is maybe why the sound didn't change much when you walked around the room.

I agree with tbewick on this.

I used to own Monitor 5s, and while they put up good SPL and were good on and off axis, I was never really happy with them with music.

The one speaker that really impressed me more than any other off axis was the Joseph Audio RM7Si Signature Mk2. I listened to the Paradigm Studio 20, Signature S2 and the RM7s that day, each for about half an hour. The two Paradigms showed response changes off axis, but the RM7 did not. I was very impressed with them.

 

[3db]

I ain't no guru. Everything I've learned so far comes from..

3db,

I had thoughts about the room. The room was approx. 18' x 18' x 8' with a drop ceiling. The speakers were about 10' apart, offset to the right by maybe 2' and approx. 15"-18" out from the wall. The couch was 11' form the speakers centered left to right. The room had no treatments and was pretty bare.(the store

I heard very little change in the rear 2/3 of the room. Now if I was up against a wall the sound changed quite abit but from a seated position to standing up the sound really didn't change very much. From standing there to walking around the couch and around the back 2/3 of the room the sound didn't change much at all to my ears. Other speakers I have demoed didn't have that level of uniform preformance around the room. (the deftechs we in the same room placed one foot to the left.)

Any thoughts?

SBF1

p.s. I have read the links mtry posted and will read them again to try to more fully understand what they are saying.

take a read thru this and try the links that "COF" suggests.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=46872


What you described as far as off axis response isnt so bad as it happens at the extreme room locations. Up against the wall, the whole balance of reflected sound vs direct sound gets really skewed in terms of stronger reflected than direct sound. Relfected sound almost always never sounds as good as direct sound. Reflected sound is important though as it gives us the sense of spaciousness.

 

[3db]

Read this post 1st before my previous one

STRONGBADF1 dig thru this 1st. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=28194

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Unless your room is going to be controlled also, you shouldn't expect that same level of response at home due to furniture, speaker location, walls, windows, etc...



I agree with tbewick on this.

I used to own Monitor 5s, and while they put up good SPL and were good on and off axis, I was never really happy with them with music.

The one speaker that really impressed me more than any other off axis was the Joseph Audio RM7Si Signature Mk2. I listened to the Paradigm Studio 20, Signature S2 and the RM7s that day, each for about half an hour. The two Paradigms showed response changes off axis, but the RM7 did not. I was very impressed with them.

Hi j,

What didn't you like about the monitor5's with music? I thought the monitor7's were pretty nice, not perfect but better than others at that price point that I can listen to locally. (that I have found anyway)

SBF1

 

[jcPanny]

Axiom Audio, another Canadian manufacturer, also designs and tests their speakers for a good off axis response. They also do a lot of testing at the NRC. They are an internet direct company, though, so they might be difficult to demo.

 

[Jack Hammer]

M&K too...

I've got M&K speakers, I forget what they call it, but the tweeters are pointed slightly away from the listening position and are supposed to work with the metal grill to deliver better off axis response. I don't understand the mechanics of it, but it sounds pretty good to me when I move around or sit in a different spot on the couch.

 

[zumbo]

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.ranges/label/Range 800 Series

 

[ScottMayo]

3db,

I had thoughts about the room. The room was approx. 18' x 18' x 8' with a drop ceiling. The speakers were about 10' apart, offset to the right by maybe 2' and approx. 15"-18" out from the wall. The couch was 11' form the speakers centered left to right. The room had no treatments and was pretty bare.

I'm going to argue that you didn't really hear the speakers. You heard all sorts of reflected stuff, attenuated highs and modes. This is not a slam against Paradigm - Paradigm was on my short list when I was buying speakers, and they ended up a respectable 3rd in my auditions. In a room like that, though, it's hard to say what was ambient reflection and what was the real deal. Take them home and listen before you buy.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thank you mtry!

Tech reading is not my strong point but I will read all of this. (I read fine but engineers write for engineers mostly and the lay person needs more discriptive writing.) Then I will come back and ask questions if needed.

Thank you again,
SBF1

p.s. still wonder why other companies are so different?

Those linked reading should be easy reading, really. They are not really engineering stuff at all.

 

[westcott]

Don't forget Revel and Bryston\PMC!