Odd high frequency response

[Turtle07]

Hi everyone, I am somewhat new to hifi audio and am having some trouble setting up my system. I have a pretty good phantom center with my current setup but it sounds too harsh and bright. Does anyone know the cause of the greater amplitudes in the high frequencies shown in the attached figure? I used anthem ARC to measure the speaker/ room response of my stereo setup. If I have ARC correct the whole frequency range to match the "ideal curve" (not recommended I know) it loses clarity but it doesn't sound nearly as harsh. Does it have to do with my gear or the placement within the room? I have an anthem str preamp with an anthem A2 amplifier powering two paradigm prestige towers. My room has some acoustic absorption treatment at the first and second reflection points as well as bass traps in the corners behind the speakers. Any insight or help would be much appreciated!

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi everyone, I am somewhat new to hifi audio and am having some trouble setting up my system. I have a pretty good phantom center with my current setup but it sounds too harsh and bright. Does anyone know the cause of the greater amplitudes in the high frequencies shown in the attached figure? I used anthem ARC to measure the speaker/ room response of my stereo setup. If I have ARC correct the whole frequency range to match the "ideal curve" (not recommended I know) it loses clarity but it doesn't sound nearly as harsh. Does it have to do with my gear or the placement within the room? I have an anthem str preamp with an anthem A2 amplifier powering two paradigm prestige towers. My room has some acoustic absorption treatment at the first and second reflection points as well as bass traps in the corners behind the speakers. Any insight or help would be much appreciated!

That looks like a speaker issue most likely. What are your speakers? Good speakers are hard to pick, most fall well short of the mark.

 

[highfigh]

Hi everyone, I am somewhat new to hifi audio and am having some trouble setting up my system. I have a pretty good phantom center with my current setup but it sounds too harsh and bright. Does anyone know the cause of the greater amplitudes in the high frequencies shown in the attached figure? I used anthem ARC to measure the speaker/ room response of my stereo setup. If I have ARC correct the whole frequency range to match the "ideal curve" (not recommended I know) it loses clarity but it doesn't sound nearly as harsh. Does it have to do with my gear or the placement within the room? I have an anthem str preamp with an anthem A2 amplifier powering two paradigm prestige towers. My room has some acoustic absorption treatment at the first and second reflection points as well as bass traps in the corners behind the speakers. Any insight or help would be much appreciated!

I agree- post the speaker brand & model, as well as any info about whether they have been repaired or modified.

What materials were used for absorption and where are they, in relation to the speakers and your main listening position?

 

[Turtle07]

I agree- post the speaker brand & model, as well as any info about whether they have been repaired or modified.

What materials were used for absorption and where are they, in relation to the speakers and your main listening position?

Sorry I thought I had included that in the description. They are paradigm prestige series 85F. They were brand new and have not been repaired or modified. The acoustic panels are positioned at the main and secondary reflection points. I think the material is owens corning absorptive material. The panels are 2 by 4 ft each

 

[Turtle07]

That looks like a speaker issue most likely. What are your speakers? Good speakers are hard to pick, most fall well short of the mark.

paradigm prestige series 85F. I purchased brand new and have taken really good care of them

 

[lovinthehd]

Not familiar with ARC or what it might call the ideal curve, but does seem you could tone down the upper frequencies more along the lines of the Harman curve, don't know if or how ARC can do that, but may be more pleasing to listen to.

 

[j_garcia]

Did you listen to these speakers before buying? Paradigms are traditionally on the brighter side. I have not heard the current lineups, but the previous Signature Series were the first ones that I felt had softer highs that I would consider less hot than previous models. Looks like the X-Pal tweeter is aluminum, which could tend toward the brighter side, depending on the implementation. The Signatures I believe were beryllium.

Do you have a hardwood or tile floor?

 

[Turtle07]

Did you listen to these speakers before buying? Paradigms are traditionally on the brighter side. I have not heard the current lineups, but the previous Signature Series were the first ones that I felt had softer highs that I would consider less hot than previous models. Looks like the X-Pal tweeter is aluminum, which could tend toward the brighter side, depending on the implementation. The Signatures I believe were beryllium.

Do you have a hardwood or tile floor?

I did demo before buying and they really didn't sound bright to me. I do have a tendency to like speakers a little bit brighter though, but this feels like something else is going on. Also I have carpet flooring

 

[j_garcia]

I did demo before buying and they really didn't sound bright to me. I do have a tendency to like speakers a little bit brighter though, but this feels like something else is going on. Also I have carpet flooring

I never had a problem with the Paradigms either. I liked the Studios and the Signatures.

Hardwood floors might have explained it some as well, but something else is going on.

 

[shadyJ]

The speaker is the problem. The Prestige speakers were harsh and had very tipped up treble. Many Paradigms do, but the Prestiges were particularly bad. You can tame the treble with some equalization. However, if it were me, I would just get some better speakers.

 

[highfigh]

Sorry I thought I had included that in the description. They are paradigm prestige series 85F. They were brand new and have not been repaired or modified. The acoustic panels are positioned at the main and secondary reflection points. I think the material is owens corning absorptive material. The panels are 2 by 4 ft each

Do you have a big fluffy sofa in front of the speakers? I ask because someone thought they had an unusual dropoff in response and it turned out that the sofa was responsible.

 

[Beave]

Paradigm Prestige 95F measurements from Stereophile: https://www.stereophile.com/content/paradigm-prestige-95f-loudspeaker-measurements

Paradigm Prestige 15B measurements from NRC: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1871:nrc-measurements-paradigm-prestige-15b-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

As ShadyJ pointed out, both show a significantly tipped up treble response.

Use your EQ to reduce that high frequency peak or get different speakers.

Another alternative, not ideal but worth a try because it's free, is to point them so that they're not firing directly toward you but instead are firing 30-40 degrees away from your listening position. That will tame some of the treble.

 

[TLS Guy]

The speaker is the problem. The Prestige speakers were harsh and had very tipped up treble. Many Paradigms do, but the Prestiges were particularly bad. You can tame the treble with some equalization. However, if it were me, I would just get some better speakers.

You have that right. I remember hearing those speakers at Hi-Fi sound. I think I heard the F85 and F95. They are similar with the F85 having 6.5" and the F95 having 8" drivers.

I have to say, I thought they were dreadful speakers. I had with me a number of CDs, I had a BIS recording of the Sibelius second symphony. The huge brass chorus at the finale, where waves of brass ride over the orchestra, was one of the most unpleasant acoustic experiences I have ever had. They produced the type of sound I absolutely abhor.

I can not find measurements on your F85s, but I can the F95s

Below is the FR on axis and 30 degrees off axis and the waterfall plot.

Those measurements are from Stereophile. They look suspiciously like your results. In my book those measurements are something really nasty.

I'm afraid it is time to go speaker shopping, as those need a decent burial.

 

[Beave]

^The plot in blue and red isn't on-axis and 30 degrees off axis. It's hard to read, but it's at 30 inches, not 30 degrees. Both are on-axis. Red is one speaker, and blue is a second sample of the same model.

 

[shadyJ]

You have that right. I remember hearing those speakers at Hi-Fi sound. I think I heard the F85 and F95. They are similar with the F85 having 6.5" and the F95 having 8" drivers.

I have to say, I thought they were dreadful speakers. I had with me a number of CDs, I had a BIS recording of the Sibelius second symphony. The huge brass chorus at the finale, where waves of brass ride over the orchestra, was one of the most unpleasant acoustic experiences I have ever had. They produced the type of sound I absolutely abhor.

I can not find measurements on your F85s, but I can the F95s

Below is the FR on axis and 30 degrees off axis and the waterfall plot.

Those measurements are from Stereophile. They look suspiciously like your results. In my book those measurements are something really nasty.

I'm afraid it is time to go speaker shopping, as those need a decent burial.

With that dispersion pattern, these speakers could be equalized to an extent. Perhaps they could be made to be listenable but probably not ever great. Thankfully Paradigm's follow-up speaker series are not bad.

 

[TLS Guy]

^The plot in blue and red isn't on-axis and 30 degrees off axis. It's hard to read, but it's at 30 inches, not 30 degrees. Both are on-axis. Red is one speaker, and blue is a second sample of the same model.

That makes sense, as with a response that bad, the off axis rarely follows the on axis. So I bet the off axis is really is probably not good.

 

[Turtle07]

Thanks everyone for helping me narrow down the issue to the speakers. When I originally bought these I had them in a much bigger room so the brightness didn't really bother me, but now that I moved and put them in a smaller room it is so much worse. I think it might be time for some new speaker shopping

 

[Turtle07]

You have that right. I remember hearing those speakers at Hi-Fi sound. I think I heard the F85 and F95. They are similar with the F85 having 6.5" and the F95 having 8" drivers.

I have to say, I thought they were dreadful speakers. I had with me a number of CDs, I had a BIS recording of the Sibelius second symphony. The huge brass chorus at the finale, where waves of brass ride over the orchestra, was one of the most unpleasant acoustic experiences I have ever had. They produced the type of sound I absolutely abhor.

I can not find measurements on your F85s, but I can the F95s

Below is the FR on axis and 30 degrees off axis and the waterfall plot.

Those measurements are from Stereophile. They look suspiciously like your results. In my book those measurements are something really nasty.

I'm afraid it is time to go speaker shopping, as those need a decent burial.

This is very helpful. Thank you!

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks everyone for helping me narrow down the issue to the speakers. When I originally bought these I had them in a much bigger room so the brightness didn't really bother me, but now that I moved and put them in a smaller room it is so much worse. I think it might be time for some new speaker shopping

The larger room probably meant you were further from the speakers. Now you are in a smaller room, the aberrant FR is much more obvious to you.

I think current Paradigm speakers are much improved.

Make a short list to audition, but make sure there are satisfactory third party measurements for any speaker on your audition list. Bring music you know well.

When you have a short list, we can take a look at it here. What speakers can you audition in your area?