Odd comparison? Looking for opinions on HDI-3800 vs CCB-8

[DeeBees]

Hello everyone,

I am a long time lurker, long time Audioholics content consumer, and a first time poster. I have the upgrade itch or possibly the what am I missing out on bug, and I am hoping someone can provide some feedback on possibly an unconventional comparison.

Long story short, I am wondering how a pair of HDI-3800s would compare to a pair of Hsu CCB-8s.

Long story long, I currently have a 5.2.4 setup and am thinking of upgrading my surrounds. This is for a family room, that is semi closed off. Roughly a 16’ 7” x 12’ room. As is, I sit about 7ft from the L/Rs. Usage is maybe a 70/30 split between gaming and movies. Mostly moderate to moderate loud listening levels, but I do like to crank it up for certain movies.

L/C/R are Hsu CCB-8s
Surrounds are some old Polk TSI300 towers
Heights are svs prime elevation
Subs are VTF-TN1s
Running on an x4800h
No room treatment, yet

I am thinking of either doing a full bed layer of CCB-8s, or… purchase a pair of HDI-3800s (when on sale) and put the CCB-8 to center and surround duty.

If I could demo the 3800s locally, I would, but I can’t seem to locate a home theater store near me. Best Buy doesn’t show it for sale on their site anymore and I never got a chance to listen to them there.

So for now, the best I can hope for are some opinions from fellow enthusiasts on what I could expect between the two setups.

I purchased the CCB-8s originally for their imagining capabilities while I was in an apartment. I am happy with them… but that “what if” keeps bugging me…

I have some space now (albeit not much) for towers. I really love the look of a tower, I like what I’ve read and watched about the 3800s, the engineering, and the story behind them. The sale price at 40-50% is what has me looking at the HDIs. I am not in a position where I’d want to spend $5k on a pair of towers, but $2500-$3000 is doable.

Would it be a mistake to force these speakers into my system? Is my room too small or plain odd to enjoy towers? Am I already at the point of chasing marginal increments in sound from my speakers?

I could also just finish off the bed layer with CCB-8s and work on some sound treatment instead (I am not confident I will see/hear benefit in a semi open room). If I do this though, I’ll still wonder what I am missing out on and would appreciate opinions or stories of experiences regardless.

 

[lovinthehd]

Interesting question. I'd tend to use the identical speaker all around when possible, and since you have the fronts all as CCB8s my first thought would be to use them as surrounds as well, particularly for music. I don't game but same speaker all around may have some benefits as it can for multich music, but for movies I wouldn't make the change from your current surrounds as they just don't matter all that much. I do like JBL towers but in your size room I'd think the CCB-8s (but no experience) could do very well.

ps I'd probably want to sit a bit further away than 7ft from the towers, tho

 

[Eppie]

Two very different speakers. Lovin' makes some good points. The 3800 could be large for that room as you already have items behind the front L+R. I have auditioned the smaller 3600 which might be a better fit. I really liked the sound of them and came very close to buying a pair. I'm not sure about matching a horn loaded tweeter with a concentric center, though. You want vocals to maintain the same timbre across the fronts. Personally, I would consider the JBLs only if you find you lack volume or dynamics with the Hsu speakers (would need to compare the sensitivity of both models), or maybe if you mostly listen to 2 channel music. The CCB-8 is already a pretty good speaker but I understand the desire to try something different. If you get the JBLs on a really good sale you might be able to get close to that price selling them used if they don't work out.

 

[DeeBees]

Thank you Lovin and Eppie.

You’re both right that there isn’t much room here. I can move back a bit, but this spot measured best for the subs. I don’t have much room to move the speakers closer to the back wall, maybe a little. Behind the left speaker is the VTF-TN1 and behind the right speaker is an unplugged VTF-2 that I need to find a new home for. It is definitely a room of compromise

I get the matching timbre across the front. I think if I loved the 3800s I’d end up with the 4500 for the center too.


Does this “what if/how about” bug ever stop?

 

[shadyJ]

The HDI 3800s are a great speaker, but they need a good distance for the drivers to integrate. The width of vertical dispersion is not wide, so they should be listened to at at least a 2m distance or better yet 3m. I don't think they would be a good fit for you. The HDI-1600s might be good though, but the HDI center is a bit of a compromise as an MTM. It has a pretty small sweet spot, like +/- 10 degrees horizontally. That is very tight. The CCB-8s actually have a somewhat wide sweet spot in comparison to MTM centers. Given your setup, I would stick with the CC-8s, at least with respect to the HDIs.

 

[DeeBees]

Thanks Shady. I was hoping you’d weigh in too. I can definitely confirm, they do have a wide sweet spot.

I think you guys saved me some money and headaches today. The WAF envelope doesn’t need to be pushed too.

 

[-Jim-]

I've had CCB-8s for the LCR (Fronts) in our Atmos system since October 2018 and they've been fabulous. I have the L&R ones on stands at the recommended height, but yours look a bit low in the photos. While a perfectionist will say having all the "Bed" speakers the same are optimal, a focus on the front stage is far more impactful.

I'm not a fan of putting a center speaker on top of a TV. No science to it, I just think it's a visual distraction.

I see you have a VTF-TN1. How do you like it? I read where HSU said you can use a pair of them as speakers stands for the CCB-8s?

Have you done any measurements to assist? (Thinking REW.)

I see no need to move off the CCB-8s. Just tweak things a bit and enjoy.

 

[DeeBees]

I've had CCB-8s for the LCR (Fronts) in our Atmos system since October 2018 and they've been fabulous. I have the L&R ones on stands at the recommended height, but yours look a bit low in the photos. While a perfectionist will say having all the "Bed" speakers the same are optimal, a focus on the front stage is far more impactful.

I'm not a fan of putting a center speaker on top of a TV. No science to it, I just think it's a visual distraction.

I see you have a VTF-TN1. How do you like it? I read where HSU said you can use a pair of them as speakers stands for the CCB-8s?

Have you done any measurements to assist? (Thinking REW.)

I see no need to move off the CCB-8s. Just tweak things a bit and enjoy.

The stands are a bit low, and I’ve been looking for ones a bit taller.

I put the ccb8 on top because of it’s ability to have a wide sweet spot. It beats lifting the tv in my opinion and dealing with off angle views. The more 2 channel listening I do though, the less I believe a center is even needed. I think next calibration will be for 5.2.4 and 4.2.4 and eliminate the center.

I already tried the pair of the TN1s for front stands but I get such a massive suckout at 50hz-60hz under the right speaker that it makes it a decision made purely on looks. The ccb8s also sound better to me when pulled away from the back wall. In this position I was also using a VTF2-MK5 as support woofer for the suckout. I may give it another go to double check my prior work.

I ended up replacing my TSi300s with ccb8s for rears so I have a full bed layer that match tonally. It has been an improvement, even if marginal.

I have not had time to recalibrate with the new rears, maybe I can this weekend. If you’d like, I can share my graph then. I am using Dirac with Bass Control.

The TN1s have been great so far. My room is a challenge for them, but Interstellar makes the house shake.

 

[ski2xblack]

I think next calibration will be for 5.2.4 and 4.2.4 and eliminate the center

If you do eliminate the center, you may also want to experiment with time/intensity trading by more extreme toe-in of the left and right speaker. I don't know if the CCB8's control their pattern well enough or low enough to lend themselves to that, maybe if James is still tuning in to this thread he'll chime in. But if they do, the benefits are a much broader sweet spot, an image that is more stable and independent of listener movements, and slightly higher direct to reflected sound, letting the ambience from the recording paint the picture in your mind's eye rather than interactions with your local acoustics. Try aiming the left speaker at the furthest right seat on the couch, and the right speaker at the furthest left seat on the couch. Experiment.

 

[DeeBees]

If you do eliminate the center, you may also want to experiment with time/intensity trading by more extreme toe-in of the left and right speaker. I don't know if the CCB8's control their pattern well enough or low enough to lend themselves to that, maybe if James is still tuning in to this thread he'll chime in. But if they do, the benefits are a much broader sweet spot, an image that is more stable and independent of listener movements, and slightly higher direct to reflected sound, letting the ambience from the recording paint the picture in your mind's eye rather than interactions with your local acoustics. Try aiming the left speaker at the furthest right seat on the couch, and the right speaker at the furthest left seat on the couch. Experiment.

They are already toed in as recommended. I get a great phantom center with it as is.