Now this I find interesting...

[itschris]

http://www.highendpalace.com/HEP Cables.htm

I like to check this site out every now and then because I like looking at all the crazy expensive esoteric stuff they have. There's been some good discussion about cable here lately so when I read this, it kind of seemed odd to me.

Notwithstanding the debate about the wisdom of buying esoteric cables, but if you were so inclined to do so, wouldn't the ultimate goal be to buy the most transparent cable? Isn't that the reason? Isn't that the criticism of "normal" cables... that consumer grade cables "color" the sound?

If that's the case, I really find quote a bit of a paradox:

"NOTES: Concierto Reference Power Cords can ordered in your choice of neutral or warm and liquid tonality with Schuko, 15 or 20 Amps connectors."

 

[mtrycrafts]

http://www.highendpalace.com/HEP Cables.htm

I like to check this site out every now and then because I like looking at all the crazy expensive esoteric stuff they have. There's been some good discussion about cable here lately so when I read this, it kind of seemed odd to me.

Notwithstanding the debate about the wisdom of buying esoteric cables, but if you were so inclined to do so, wouldn't the ultimate goal be to buy the most transparent cable? Isn't that the reason? Isn't that the criticism of "normal" cables... that consumer grade cables "color" the sound?

If that's the case, I really find quote a bit of a paradox:

"NOTES: Concierto Reference Power Cords can ordered in your choice of neutral or warm and liquid tonality with Schuko, 15 or 20 Amps connectors."

Well, if you were reading some of the posters here cables are tone controls since many of the high end components don't have any Wow, I would have thought you could include tone controls for much less than you could with the trial and error process with cables.

 

[zhimbo]

I totally need some liquid tonality power cords.

Seriously...W.T.F.?

 

[itschris]

I would have thought that the gripe of "consumer grade" cables would be that they color the sound and alter the purity of the signal. It strikes me that it's exactly "that" which they are selling... the coloring of the signal.

 

[pzaur]

I would have thought that the gripe of "consumer grade" cables would be that they color the sound and alter the purity of the signal. It strikes me that it's exactly "that" which they are selling... the coloring of the signal.

I bet the only thing they really color is the jacket on the cord! Probably the same stuff underneath with no changes.

-pat

 

[mtrycrafts]

I totally need some liquid tonality power cords.

Seriously...W.T.F.?

Liquid tonality? Why that would change tonality at the whim of the flow

 

[corey]

So I could "upgrade" my system with Concierto Grand Overture interconnects, power cords & speaker wire for not much more than $100,000.00. That would just include speaker wire for my front 3. I wonder how much more it would be for 4 30 foot lengths, for my side & rear surrounds?

 

[itschris]

I mean on one hand, you kinda got to admire the brass it takes to sell that. I'm still curious as to their marketing though. I still stand my question. I'd like to have that explained. I really don't care how much they cost... hell if you got the money to waste, why the hell not... there's a lot worse things that really rich people waste money on... an entourage comes to mind... but nevertheless, they're selling cables designed to color the sound. Hmmmmmm.....

 

[skizzerflake]

Another exploiter of cognitive dissonance....$20,000 speaker wires....they must be worth it or why would I have bought them....If they were not 1000 times better than $20 cables, how stupid must I be....but I'm not stupid so ergo, they MUST be worth 20K. Works every time.

 

[3db]

The whole cable debate leaves me somewhat disconnected!!

Seriously though, the wave length of the highest audio frequency component is so large that parasitic capacitance and inductance play negligible roles in conducting the signal to the speaker. Secondly, the current flow is also quite small compared to the current carrying capability. To me these audiophiles purchase cables based on appearance, not on sound. Some cables look kinda cool I'll admit but for $20000, I can buy a very nice system and string it together with lamp chord and have it sound better than $20000 in cable could ever do.

 

[fmw]

I can't justify anything the high end audio industry does because it is just plain nuts. I spent decades as a high end audiophile and I would laugh about it if I hadn't wasted 6 figures on the stuff.

You alter the frequency response with cables by using wire with a lot of built in inductance or capacitance. I had some of these made up years ago when I was trying to sell cables just like the high end cables but for $20. That was in the pre-world wide web days. It turns out people weren't buying high end cables for sound. They were buying them for price - bragging rights, I guess. Nobody wanted $20 cables that performed exactly like $2000 cables. They wanted the $2000 cables even if they performed poorly. I don't explain it. I just report the facts.

Yes, it is nuts to use cables as a tone control because they are only defeatable by removing them and they are not adjustable at all. An equalizer is a far better choice. But high end audiophiles have been trained that EQ's are bad because the color sound but it is OK to color the sound in other ways - tubes, cables etc. etc. Again, I don't explain it, I just report the facts.

The good news is that nearly 100% of the cables sold in the industry are transparent. They don't have excessive capacitance or inductance. The differences in sound are due to placebo effect and only perceived. That means that, while most high end audiophiles spend way too much money for cables, at least the cables are performing as they should. The ones who buy cables as tone controls are following the herd. It is what they have been trained to do by high end audio magazines.

 

[3db]

fmw...unless your cables are really REALLY high in distributed inductance/capacitance and or your wiring runs are very VERY long, I can't see the audio frequency range making an audable effect.

I can't justify anything the high end audio industry does because it is just plain nuts. I spent decades as a high end audiophile and I would laugh about it if I hadn't wasted 6 figures on the stuff.

You alter the frequency response with cables by using wire with a lot of built in inductance or capacitance. I had some of these made up years ago when I was trying to sell cables just like the high end cables but for $20. That was in the pre-world wide web days. It turns out people weren't buying high end cables for sound. They were buying them for price - bragging rights, I guess. Nobody wanted $20 cables that performed exactly like $2000 cables. They wanted the $2000 cables even if they performed poorly. I don't explain it. I just report the facts.

Yes, it is nuts to use cables as a tone control because they are only defeatable by removing them and they are not adjustable at all. An equalizer is a far better choice. But high end audiophiles have been trained that EQ's are bad because the color sound but it is OK to color the sound in other ways - tubes, cables etc. etc. Again, I don't explain it, I just report the facts.

The good news is that nearly 100% of the cables sold in the industry are transparent. They don't have excessive capacitance or inductance. The differences in sound are due to placebo effect and only perceived. That means that, while most high end audiophiles spend way too much money for cables, at least the cables are performing as they should. The ones who buy cables as tone controls are following the herd. It is what they have been trained to do by high end audio magazines.

 

[fmw]

You are right. It takes a lot to do the job. The wires the manufacturer and I were using were surrounded by a tight coil of wire throughout the entire length. The shielding was actually a coil. The result was attentuated high frequencies. It didn't work as well as the units with little boxes attached to them but it was close and a lot cheaper to make.

When we did our bias controlled tests back in the mid 1990's we had one interconnect cable display an audible difference out of the 15 we tested. It was Japanese made and sold for about $1500 for a pair. They had a little box in the middle of each cable designed to alter the electrical properties of the cable. It isn't as easy as some might think to make an interconnect cable that works as a tone control but it's been done, to be sure. Most interconnect cables work just fine. These oddballs are in a very small minority.

These days some people are marketing "active" cables. Battery powered. Will wonders never cease?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

It doesn't really matter how they describe the cables. One steaming load of BS is as good as another.

 

[3db]

You are right. It takes a lot to do the job. The wires the manufacturer and I were using were surrounded by a tight coil of wire throughout the entire length. The shielding was actually a coil. The result was attentuated high frequencies. It didn't work as well as the units with little boxes attached to them but it was close and a lot cheaper to make.

When we did our bias controlled tests back in the mid 1990's we had one interconnect cable display an audible difference out of the 15 we tested. It was Japanese made and sold for about $1500 for a pair. They had a little box in the middle of each cable designed to alter the electrical properties of the cable. It isn't as easy as some might think to make an interconnect cable that works as a tone control but it's been done, to be sure. Most interconnect cables work just fine. These oddballs are in a very small minority.

These days some people are marketing "active" cables. Battery powered. Will wonders never cease?

fmw

They are using battery powered black boxes on the speaker cables as tone controls? Why? Wouldn't equalizer work better and more precisely?

 

[Soundman]

It doesn't really matter how they describe the cables. One steaming load of BS is as good as another.

Absolutely!

 

[mtrycrafts]

These days some people are marketing "active" cables. Battery powered. Will wonders never cease?

I seriously wonder though how 'active' they really are. Some just have a strand in there that is connected to one of the batter terminals, nothing more, certainly not an active part of an RLC circuit connected to the cable.
But then, I have not seen their schematics either on those that do claim active roll.
And, how in th eworld the designer knows what frequency needs an 'active' interfernece and to what degree? Just more smoke and mirrors parlor tricks

 

[mtrycrafts]

One steaming load of BS is as good as another.

I don't know about that Maybe one is better perfumed than another load

 

[fmw]

I seriously wonder though how 'active' they really are. Some just have a strand in there that is connected to one of the batter terminals, nothing more, certainly not an active part of an RLC circuit connected to the cable.
But then, I have not seen their schematics either on those that do claim active roll.
And, how in th eworld the designer knows what frequency needs an 'active' interfernece and to what degree? Just more smoke and mirrors parlor tricks

I've never been in the same room with one. Either they are snake oil or they actually do distort the waveforms. Neither is a good thing.

 

[no. 5]

Notwithstanding the debate about the wisdom of buying esoteric cables, but if you were so inclined to do so, wouldn't the ultimate goal be to buy the most transparent cable? Isn't that the reason? Isn't that the criticism of "normal" cables... that consumer grade cables "color" the sound?

If that's the case, I really find quote a bit of a paradox:

"NOTES: Concierto Reference Power Cords can ordered in your choice of neutral or warm and liquid tonality with Schuko, 15 or 20 Amps connectors."

Apparently, $$$ = pure sound. Different colorations are still pure if equipment is $$$.