Novice Needs Help with Creating System

L

lisa

Audiophyte
<font color='#000000'>Okay I am totally overwhelmed at this point and am needing advice.  I have never had a home theater system or even a nice stereo and I now want to build a home theater system (for movies and for lots of music) for about $1000-$1500.  I have bought 2 items and am feeling a bit of buyer's remorse, mainly because I haven't a clue what I am doing and also because I want my expenditure of a grand to really sound better than had I bought a $500 HTIB.  But I am worried.

A friend recommended to me the universal Pioneer DVD (is it the 583a?) and I bought it on his recommendation at BestBuy for $179.  Mistake?

That same friend then recommended (since I am totally clueless and don't have any confidence in my ears to go around testing) Def Tech Pro Cinema 60 speaker package.  He had heard good things about the company and saw a good review in DVD Etc of that package.  I went and tested them and couldn't tell anything (they seemed fine to me), but I bought them because I wanted to move forward and I liked the way they looked (embarassing, I know) and based on my friend's advice.  I was also considering (though did not test) the Energy Take 5.2.  If music is important to me (and movies also, but secondary), did I make a mistake?  Now I see that Def Tech rocks for HT but maybe not at all for music?  And what about the Pro Cinema 60 in general?  Is this going to sound better than had I bought a $500 HTIB when all things are said and done?  The speakers are small, but I wasn't looking for anything huge and I don't think I need a monster or total audiophile system.  I live in a townhouse that has an open floor plan and 12 ft ceilings.  All rooms on the first floor are essentially open to eachother (still is a small area) but the HT will go in the family room, which is about 10 x 20.

Last question is what receiver should be matched with this.  How much is appropriate to spend based upon the level and expense of the speakers (I don't want to out-do or under-do what I bought -- underkill or overkill but just right) and also I want a receiver that will bring out the best in my speakers.  Right now I am considering receivers in the $400 range and from brands like Pioneer, Yamaha, Marantz (which someone told me works well with Def Tech), Onkyo, Denon, etc.

Help!!!!  Do I need to do some returns?  Will my system be nice even though I am not putting down phat cash?  What to buy next?  Thanks.

P.S. &nbsp;Is a receiver with a component input a must? &nbsp;Cuz the cheaper Marantzs sometimes do not have this, so I am wondering if I should pick a different brand or if I need to step up in price range.</font>
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<font color='#000000'>Whew! First, take a deeeep breath and relax!

OK, now, you impulsively bought some gear without doing some research and you recognize that it was probably a bad move (if I may summarize).

Short answer is: don't spend another dime until you do some reading. At your budget we're talking average mass-market gear, not high-end stuff.

I suggest two things: 1) read the articles here on Audioholics. Take a look at their recommended system in your budget. I think most here would agree that it is a good system. 2) Get the last couple of issues of Consumer Reports. They did tests of popular home theater components and while one may quibble with some of their choices (especially in speakers), they do a good job of explaining things to the novice and cutting thru a lot of the BS that, unfortunately, surrounds our hobby.

Then, sleep on it for a few days before you rush off to the store!

I never heard of Def Tech but with a cheesy name like that I suspect it was a mistake. Speakers are absolutely the most important part of any system and you should take the time to do some homework and listen to different speakers before making a decision. Can you return the Def Techs? Does anyone here have knowledge of them &amp; can help Lisa decide whether to return them?

The good news is that all the reciever brands you mentioned are reputable quality companies and you can't go seriously wrong with any of them. Not to say some aren't better than others but it's not as big a decision as speakers.

As far as certain brands &quot;going&quot; with certain speakers, I'm a skeptic about that. Even if true, the differences would only matter to a real hard-core audiophile and are likely to occur with expensive, somewhat exotic speakers. Not an issue for you.

I'm going to guess that you're young and impulsive. At the risk of sounding like your Dad, I was like that at your age, too!

Oh, some other things: don't let the salemen talk you into pricey wires, especially Monster Cable. Monster builds in a big percentage for the dealers in their pricing so naturally the salesmen hype them. Percentage-wise, it's their most profitable item! If you pay more than a buck a foot for speaker wire (heck, 50 cents a foot is more than adequate), or more than about $12-$15 for each &quot;interconnect&quot; cable (the ones that attach, say, the DVD to the reciever) you're throwing money away. And extended warranties are a ripoff, too.</font>
 
F

footman

Junior Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>the pioneer was a good first step. with it you have a cd player, a dvd player, a sacd player and a dvd-a player. &nbsp; i purchased mine to sample the high resolution formats and am quite satisfied. &nbsp; in fact at its price level i find the pioneer's overall performance quite remarkable.</font>
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
<font color='#000000'>Definitely slow down. This is a slow process. I know you are eager to get it going today. But it sucking every day after today will not be cool. The DVD looks like it was a good buy. Made me feel foolish for what I paid for mine. Definitive Technology makes some good speakers, BUT, it seems to me like they are taking on that slap our name on some cheap stuff so we can have more money for our top stuff. Not saying the ones you got were cheap, just not much on the direction they are going, or the whole powered sub in the mains they are famous for. That said, I would drop the whole idea, granted you can take them back, of buying a whole speaker system at once. I would buy two good speakers, and add on as I went. As far as the receiver, all you listed are good brands, and most people here have their pref. I would add the word Elite to your Pioneer choice, and then go shopping. Get the one you like the best.</font>
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Definitive Technology makes some good speakers, BUT, it seems to me like they are taking on that slap our name on some cheap stuff so we can have more money for our top stuff.</td></tr></table>

Oh, THAT &quot;Def Tech&quot;! Sorry, I thought it was some fly-by-night outfit trying for a &quot;hip-hop&quot; name. Forgive the old guy. Yes, they do make good speakers. But like he said, don't know about that cinema package. Might be good, might not. Have you listened to them? Do you trust your ears?

But the above two posts should make you feel a bit better. Like Zumbo said, slow down and consider getting two real good speakers to start -- if you decide against the ones you bought. Maybe if you don't like those the dealer will be more kindly disposed to upgrade to two of &quot;Def Tech's&quot; better speakers. The Studio Monitor 450 got a good review in an audio mag I trust. They're $329 ea. The Studio Monitor 350 is the same but for a smaller woofer (slightly less bass) for $249 ea. The measurements the magazine did, and the reviewer's comments, suggested that they should have a very natural, clean sound. Some speakers exaggerate the bass or treble to impress you in the showroom or to cater to less sophisticated listeners, but become tiring to listen too for a long time. In fact, that's one good thing for a beginner to learn about speakers: good ones are not fatiguing to listen to when you listen at a realistically loud level for a long time.

Good luck!</font>
 
A

av_phile

Senior Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>The Definitive Technology Procinema 60 is a set of 5.1 satellite speakers with powered sub. &nbsp;It really is intended to compete with the inferior Booze speakers. &nbsp;For small rooms, it can make HT listening satisfying. &nbsp;

But since you say you prefer music, I personally would look elsewhere. &nbsp;Not that the Procinema 60 won't give a good Pologic II reporoduction, I just think there are other speakers even within the Def Tech product line that can perform better.

With music in mind, I would consider Onkyo within your price range. &nbsp;The brand is good for both music and movies based on my experience. And it's good you did not buy any HTIB which I don't consider a serious gear for would-be audiophiles. &nbsp;Lastly, if your TV has component video inputs and you plan to use another DVD player or video source in your set-up, it would be a good idea to future-prrof your receiver purchase but making sure it has a set of component video terminals as well.</font>
 
zipper

zipper

Full Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Don't know what you paid for the deftechs, but for your 1st HT system it's probably not a bad start. A $500 HTIB would be a waste of money. Some $1000 HTIB aren't too bad &amp; will give you a frame of reference for future, although for music I find them subpar. A friend bought one on sale for about $800 &amp; it's not too bad(considering he had nothing before). Might be OK fit for townhouse.
&nbsp;Heed the advice of the previous posters in here &amp; you won't go wrong. If you stick with the deftechs, be careful about $400-range receivers. You're on the edge of acceptable &amp; junk. Don't get talked into buying some $299 Sony(or likes of) receiver that boasts to be 100 watts per chan w/5.1 surround as you will be disillusioned &amp; disappointed after a while.
And have fun shopping!</font>
 
austinbirdman

austinbirdman

Audioholic Intern
<font color='#000000'>You're doing well with that DVD player as everyone suggested. It's one of the two best/better budget models you can get right now, the other being the Panasonic F85. Your Pioneer plays all formats including SACD. The Panasonic plays all except SACD, but it has the advantage of being a 5-disc changer, which is nice for CDs. Other than that, they are a toss-up in many ways. Well done.

On the speakers et al, here's a recommendation to make you very happy for music AND HT and bring you in under budget. You can research all these components, here and elsewhere, like audioreview.com, and you'll hear great things:

Axiom M22tis - main speakers = $400
Axiom M2is - rears = $255
Axiom M2i - center = $127.50
Sub - hold that thought, depends on budget
Receiver = Harmon/Kardon AVR 325 = $430 at etronics

Total without sub = $1212.50. There are no extra taxes or shipping on the Axioms, that is included in their price. On the H/K, you will have shipping, or tax if you buy it locally. And other H/K models to consider are the AVR330 ($474), AVR525 ($570, highly recommended), AVR430 ($609).

Before explaining these choices, let's talk subs. Decent, music-friendly subs start at $400. The blunt reality is that on your budget, if you insist on getting a decent sub, you will be forced to make some serious compromises elsewhere. The only area worth considering serious compromises is your rear/surrounds ... if you have access to some free or very very very cheap bookshelf speakers that you can improvise and use as surrounds for the time being, than maybe it's worth looking into a music-oriented sub, and you'll find lots of recommendations here and at the Axiom forums site from $400-$550 (Hsu STF-2, SVS powered subs, some Yamahas, others). This could be the way to go, but just be aware, there's no good middle ground with a $1500 budget. The HTIB route is a waste of time ... you'll end up with a crappy sub AND crappy satellites, or at best a good sub but one required to carry too much of the sound b/c the satellites suck. Since you like music, and seem like a good person, START WITH YOUR MAIN SPEAKERS as someone else here suggested. Whatever you do, make sure you get some great main speakers.

This is where the Axioms come in. The M22tis are great main speakers.

My highest recommendation for you would be to cough up a few extra dollars and get the M60tis from Axiom, a floorstander that has close to full-range sound, getting down accurately to 37Hz. Spend some time on the Axiom forum site and you will hear how much people love these speakers. (I do.)

The M60s cost $800, so they will push your budget up, but if you can cut corners by adding free/old bookshelves in the rear, and/or by holding off for now on a sub until you can afford a good one, then believe me you will be psyched and happy.

Either way, with the M22s or M60s from Axiom, you'll be the proud owner of a great pair of musical main speakers, ones that make you HAPPY instead of filled with buyer's remorse. You will love your purchase and want to listen to music a ton.

On the rears/surrounds I recommended: Axiom makes fantastic surrounds in the QS8s, but at $470 they (and comparable surrounds from Monitor Audio, Paradigm Reference, and other good companies) are too much for your budget. Instead, if you buy surrounds, go with the timbre-matching bookshelves. This will give you the chance to have fun with DVD-Audio and SACD, now that you have the universal player that can handle these formats.

On the center -- same deal. Axiom and other audiophile speaker companies make some great centers, but the truth is a bookshelf speaker can handle the center duties extremely well - some people even prefer them over the marketed &quot;centers&quot; because they can have better dispersion qualities. Usually their shape stops people, but if you can accomodate a little bookshelf speaker above your tv, you can save money while timbre-matching and having a great piece of equipment. (Visit the Ascend Acoustics site, for example, and you'll see how they market their bookshelves as centers. This is another good company by the way.)

Regarding receivers, I just listed H/K because they are among the best for power-ratings (accurate power ratings vs. bogus ratings) and they are beloved as a low-end receiver among audiophiles. There are plenty of other well-respected models out there, from Onkyo and Yamaha for instance. These ones I listed are sure bets.

Send back those DefTechs, do it with gusto, and take the plunge. You will be psyched, and you can get very good sound and HT for $1500 more or less.

Birdman

PS - Bit more on subs: If you get into SACD and DVD-Audio, you will eventually want a sub, and of course they are great for HT. I'm just trying to make a recommendation that will work realistically for your budget, with future expansion plans in mind. If you absolutely feel you need a sub now for HT, but can't afford one for music, you might consider a cheapo sub just for HT, like the $150 100-watt Dayton sub offered by Parts Express, or any of the Yamaha or Sony subs well reviewed at audioreview.com. This will tide you over with movies until you can afford a good one .... but to double purchases, it's usually better to renounce now and wait until you can get the good one later. If you go full-bore and get M60s now, you will be able to live that much longer without a sub, even on HT, until you can afford one. Then when you're ready you can make the right purchase once, instead of the wrong one several times, as most people do.</font>
 
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