Notes from auditioning speakers

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Disclaimer: As a matter of perspective, I do not spend much time listening critically to speakers. I do not claim to have a "trained ear". I do spend plenty of time listening to music on decent speakers (but not listening to the speakers). IOW, take anything I say about these speakers with a grain of salt and recognize it is subjective opinion.;)

I made a fun day of auditioning speakers today.:)
I listened to the speakers w/o a subwoofer and made it a point to judge performance on the mid and upper range (if that is humanly possible). Prices are per pair as quoted at the showrooms I visited.
First I went to a showroom which has Paradigm (and not much else). I started with the Atom Monitor ($?) vs. the Mini Monitor($480). Easy choice, I really like the sound of the Mini.
Next, I compared the Studio 10 ($800) to the Mini. I took my time, but couldn't really make the call. They were decidedly different, but I liked both. The sound of a cymbal on the 10 was better, but the music seemed to have more presence on the Mini.
The comparison was problematic because the Mini is a more efficient speaker. The salesman was professional and pointed this out and attempted to adjust for the difference via volume knob. He actually did an impressively good job, but it still wasn't the same as having both immediately at the same level.
Since I did not have a clear-cut champ, I next went to a three way comparison with the Studio 20's ($1200) vs the 10's vs the Mini's. My conclusion was that the 20 did not sound as good as either the 10 or the Mini! It was as if the lower midrange of the 20's was not so well defined as on the 10's and Mini's.:confused:
Since I had another shop to visit, I decided the ultimate "run-off" between the 10 and Mini could wait until I brought a wider array of music and was prepared to spend a couple of hours just between those two. I spent about an hour at this shop.

Next I went to a shop that sells PSB, Totem, Vandersteen, and Theil. Among the PSB speakers, I settled on the Imagine B ($1000). The sales guy said that it was their most popular speaker in that price range. Then came the Vandersteen VLR ($1100). They totally eclipsed the sound of the PSB. The difference was all about high frequencies and the PSB's just sounded dull in comparison. I can't say if the PSB's were poor, the Vandersteen's exceptional, or if the Vandersteen overemphasized the highs. However, it was readily clear that the PSB's were out of the running. Just for yucks, I listened to the Theils ($2000) I'd be hard pressed to pick between these two. The Theil doesn't have everything the Vandersteen does on the high end, it was clearly different, but neither worse nor better. I didn't spend much time comparing them because I am not willing to pay an extra grand without realizing an immediately obvious improvement in sound.
I next compared the sound of the Totem Mite ($675) against the Vandersteen. Unfortunately the Totems were on the opposite wall, so it is hard to compare with the differences in acoustics. I can say both speakers sound good. The Totem Rainmaker at $995 is a fairer comparison, they had sold their demo's and would have them back in stock by the end of the week. I didn't spend too much time listening to the Totems - I just wanted to make sure that I did like the "Totem" sound, which I did. The sales guy said he'd be happy to move the Totems to the same side of the room, but I'll wait until the Rainmakers are on the shelf.

I had planned to make this the end of my day's listening spree, but it bugged me that I would find the Studio 20 to be clearly inferior to the "lesser" 10. The salesman had commented that speakers sound better if they don't have the nest of cables required from the automated A/B setup they had. In any case, I wondered if the wires for the studio 20's might have taken too many wraps or if their was something about their positioning which caused the Studio 20's not to sound as good as they could. The Paradigm website had provided another dealer in the area, so I decided to see what I found there.
At the second shop, I found exactly what you would expect - the 10 and 20 had very much the same sound, except the 20's sounded a little fuller. While I was there, I spent more time evaluating the Mini against the Studio.
I had the same experience as before - both sounded pretty much equally good. I could easily identify either speaker by its sound. The Studio had nice clarity in the upper register and a mellowness, while the Mini has more presence, maybe even more crispness in the midrange. Both sound very fine.
A specific realization happened when I listened to a vocal passage accompanied by acoustic guitar. The guitar is subtle in the background. On the Mini, the guitar was more percussive, while the Studio made it more melodious!

In conclusion, right now, regarding the Paradigms, I am in a quandary. Do I save money with the Mini or go with the more expensive Studio which sounds equally good but may prove better sounding in the long haul. The correct answer is to spend more time in the showroom. However, if any of you have ideas on the differences in sound, or what I might look for in a follow up session, please share it with me.

Also if anyone know what makes the Vandersteen so distinctive, that is also quite a curiosity. The published specs don't reveal anything. The one unique aspect of the Vandersteen VLR is that it is a monopole speaker. Would that really make an appreciable difference in the sound?

All in all, it was a very enjoyable experience. I learned a lot and look forward to my next auditioning sessions.:D:D
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Nice write up! I enjoyed reading your impressions :)

Your experience parallels many of the auditioning sessions that I have done. Expectations are not always met. Differences are certainly heard, but not necessarily a "better vs. worse" difference. Some speakers really grab your attention while others almost disappear and leave nothing but the music behind.

I'm hopeful that our PM discussions might have helped you a little in at least keeping an ear out for certain specific aspects of the sound rather than just the broad, "I like this" or "I don't like this" sort of judgement. It is often disconcerting to people that they will like a certain speaker in the showroom, only to get that speaker home and not like the way it sounds. That is, of course, the effect of the room acoustics and the seating position. But what DOES translate from showroom to home are specific things like emphasis in the high frequencies, or emphasis in the low frequencies or greater dynamics. Those sorts of things generally remain audible regardless of the room - but the room will interact with the speakers to either make those traits a plus or a minus for that particular environment.

So the trick is to listen to the same speaker in many rooms and to listen to many speakers in the same room. Over time, you build up a sort of knowledge base where you can start to reliably predict how a certain specific trait of the speakers will react with certain types of rooms.

Emphasis in the high frequencies is a common design choice among "high end" speakers these days. Tipped-up high frequencies instantly make a speaker sound more "detailed". You have to be careful though because our ears are very sensitive to any distortion in higher frequencies. We have trouble telling the actual recording from the distortion, but any distortion can make high frequencies sound shrill and fatiguing. Tipping up the treble isn't necessarily bad. If the tweeter keeps very low distortion, you can play it loudly without it sounding shrill or fatiguing. Distortion is the enemy, not just pure loudness. High frequencies are rather easily absorbed, deflected and dissipated. In a large room, you actually need some extra treble energy coming out of the speaker, just to make it sound like flat frequency response at the seat. This is the case in movie theaters where the room is very large, the walls are acoustically treated and there are many bodies in the theater. All of those factors serve to absorb much of the high frequencies, so movie theater speakers are actually "bright" - as are the mixes themselves. Measure them with a mic placed very close and they would show a rise in frequency response in the treble. But at the actual seat, the frequency response is much flatter.

All of this is to explain what might be going on with those Vandersteen speakers. I haven't heard them myself, so I cannot say for sure, but it is certainly not uncommon for speaker makers to purposely emphasize the high frequencies. If they are doing it without distortion, the speaker will simply sound more detailed, clear and "snappy". But you have to be VERY careful with such a design choice because ANY distortion will also be louder and thus, the speaker can become fatiguing much more easily.

Your experience with the PSB speakers certainly mirrors my own. I have always found PSB speakers to sound rather "veiled" and somewhat "flat". PSB's design is the exact opposite, with rolled-off high frequencies as a purposeful design choice. In smaller, reflective rooms - much of the high frequency energy is bounced off of the walls and is NOT absorbed. The net result is that even a flat speaker might end up sounding "bright" in such a room. By rolling off the treble, high frequency distortion is almost completely avoided. People often flock to this sound because it almost never sounds shrill or harsh, but it comes at the expense of some detail IMO. I've actually found that a lot of people who started with Bose speakers really love PSB. This is not surprising to me. Bose speakers lack ANY output above about 8 kHz and everything up to that is a distortion-laden mess! People who have been listening to Bose hear the PSB speakers and it is a revelation! The distortion is gone - that is a HUGE improvement. And they never notice the lack of detail because the PSB speakers go well beyond the 8 kHz range, so, to them, the PSB speakers sound PLENTY detailed ;)

So the Paradigm comparison - very interesting.

For one thing, Paradigm really does have a clear design goal with their speakers and they use it pretty much across their entire lineup. They aim for a scientifically calculated frequency response based upon the research that is conducted at the NRC. So it is not at all surprising when the Mini Monitor and the Studio 10 and Studio 20 all sound far more alike than they do different!

With the Monitor Line though, you've got a pretty big difference in terms of efficiency. The Monitor Line really was designed with the idea that they would be driven by mid and lower level receivers, whereas the Studio Line has the expectation of more amplifier power. Much of what you heard can be attributed to the difference in efficiency. More efficient speakers also tend to be more dynamic. It takes less power to get their drivers to move or to move farther, so if you turn up the volume knob the same amount with the Monitor Line vs. the Studio Line, you will not get the same increase in loudness. You have to turn the volume knob up more with the Studio Line, so that can be the source of audible difference much of the time.

There is little question though that the Studio Line uses more sophisticated drivers that produce lower distortion. It is often counter-intuitive because a very low distortion speaker that is also very linear and very flat in frequency response will often sound less "exciting" or "distinct". This is certainly the case with subwoofers where most people are used to hearing a TREMENDOUS amount of distortion and when it is gone, the undistorted sound seems too "quiet".

This might sound ridiculous at first, but I've found a very handy recording that I now use to instantly identify speakers that have any distortion or "overhang" in their midrange. Some people will laugh at me for this, but it is Kris Allen's version of "Heartless" from American Idol - lol :p

At the very beginning of the song, Kris is singing with very little musical accompaniment. If the speaker is distorting or lacks nearly perfect transient response, it sounds as though Kris' voice has been recorded on multiple tracks, with the end of one phrase seemingly over-lapped by the beginning of the next phrase in the song.

With speakers that have extremely little distortion and virtually perfect transient response in the mid-range though, you can plainly hear and separate the reverb (which causes the end of Kris' phrase to linger) from the breath and beginning of the next phrase. The effect is that it no longer sounds like multiple tracks that have been poorly over-laid, but a single track that simply has reverb on Kris' voice. If the speaker is distorting in the mid-range, that reverb "melds" with the breath and isn't easily picked out as reverb and if the speaker lacks nearly perfect transient response, the reverb sounds as though Kris really continued singing, which would make the beginning of his next phrase impossible and thus, create the effect that there are multiple tracks over-laid on top of one another.

If you're willing to face the embarrassment of downloading an American Idol song, I can easily recommend having this track, purely for this test ;) You only have to listen to about 10 seconds and it can quickly tell you so much about the capabilities of the speaker!

I should note that it's entirely possible (and likely) that the song WAS recorded on multiple tracks. But you can be sure that when they were mixing it in the studio, they intended for it to sound the way it sounds on "good" speakers - where you can plainly make out the reverb from his actual voice and believe that he was simply singing straight through, rather than the way it sounds on "bad" speakers - where it plainly sounds as though there were multiple tracks used.

I haven't tried this out on the Paradigm speakers, so if you're planning to go back and listen to them again, I'd love to get your experience of how that particular song sounds on the Mini Monitors vs. the Studio Line :)
 
J

just listening

Audioholic
Interesting posts.

First, it's too bad you had to hear the Totems on an opposite wall. Unlike many manufacturers, their speakers are designed to take advantage of the natural resonances of the cabinet. Some consider this coloration, it's a personal choice.

To my ears, I'd take the Studio 20's over the Mini's any day. I think the sound is fuller, richer, more detailed. You should also know that the newest version of the 20's was designed to actually replace previous versions of the 40's that are no longer made. The new model, the Studio 10's are supposed to take over the old 20's spot.

I'm guessing that size is something you're trying to keep as small as possible. If that is the case then if you can find a way to compare the Studio 20's to the Totem Rainmakers, and the Studio 10's to the Mites, that would be a fun experience.

Whatever the case may be, get a good quality set of stands that can be filled with lead shot or sand. The improvement is with the $$ spent. Enjoy the journey.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
These two posts above are excellent posts. Thanks guys for the dedication, time and effort you put to them.

Mine will be very short, because FirstReflection has pretty much said it.

In another thread, KEW, I highly recommended that you seriously audition the Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.5 speakers, mated with an SVS SB12-Plus subwoofer, for a very high performance 2.1-channel system.

I continue here that same recommendation. And don't forget a good pair of speakers' stands for these magnificent performing Studio 20s.
Your receiver choice is a perfect match with these speakers.
We're talking high resolution system here, for a very good value.

Cheers, And take your time to audition as many speakers as you can.

Bob
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks for your comments!
As far as speaker stands, I'm afraid these speakers will end up installed on a shelf, or some type of wall mount to meet WAF specifications. Any ideas on implementation with this restriction in mind are appreciated!

After some thought, I think my best next move is to bring in some music with pizzicato type sharp attacks to compare on the speakers. If I can be sloppy with statements, the Mini emphasized the string and the Studio emphasized the note. These are subtle differences - Obviously the note and the string were well present on both speakers.
I also noticed the same on the sound of electric bass. On the Mini the metallic sharpness of the string was strongly present - maybe a little more of a "raw" sound I liked. On the Studio it was more as if the note just appeared, strong and solid, more restrained and refined. As far as passing judgment, the question is what is the recorded sound of the bass. Are the Mini's over emphasizing the string sound or are the Studio's a little slower with transients?
Hopefully, some focused listening to music rich with this type of content will make the differences more pronounced and easier to decide on.
 
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john72953

john72953

Full Audioholic
If music is your primary passion, I would gently request that you not give up on the Totem Rainmakers just yet.

John
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Just for yucks, I listened to the Theils ($2000) I'd be hard pressed to pick between these two. The Theil doesn't have everything the Vandersteen does on the high end, it was clearly different, but neither worse nor better. I didn't spend much time comparing them because I am not willing to pay an extra grand without realizing an immediately obvious improvement in sound...

All in all, it was a very enjoyable experience. I learned a lot and look forward to my next auditioning sessions.:D:D
When picking TLS' brain about xovers, and 1st order in particular, when I asked particularly about Thiel (which is the correct spelling), he said they really believe in using them (1st order). Maybe that's why they sounded different. I believe offaxis suffers with such a design, but to implement it is supposed to be difficult, as the drivers need to be extremely well matched, and maintain a relatively flat response over a wide range, particularly for the midrange's upper end.

W/o having heard either, I'd go for Studio over Mini's simply on the empirical impressions I've accumulated over countless hours of forum whoring.

Thanks for the impressions, looking forward to the next.

Your experience with the PSB speakers certainly mirrors my own. I have always found PSB speakers to sound rather "veiled" and somewhat "flat". PSB's design is the exact opposite, with rolled-off high frequencies as a purposeful design choice. In smaller, reflective rooms - much of the high frequency energy is bounced off of the walls and is NOT absorbed. The net result is that even a flat speaker might end up sounding "bright" in such a room. By rolling off the treble, high frequency distortion is almost completely avoided. People often flock to this sound because it almost never sounds shrill or harsh, but it comes at the expense of some detail IMO. I've actually found that a lot of people who started with Bose speakers really love PSB. This is not surprising to me. Bose speakers lack ANY output above about 8 kHz and everything up to that is a distortion-laden mess! People who have been listening to Bose hear the PSB speakers and it is a revelation! The distortion is gone - that is a HUGE improvement. And they never notice the lack of detail because the PSB speakers go well beyond the 8 kHz range, so, to them, the PSB speakers sound PLENTY detailed ;)
Hmrz. I use PSB, and my benchmark for clarity comes from my stereo electrostat speakers. They are on the warmer side of neutral, overall. If anything, my primary complaint is the resonant cabinets, at least of the entry lines, but the new revamped Images are supposed to be using 1-1/8" MDF! Though it could be only for the front baffle. (Oh, BTW, KEW, the Imagines is a pretty new line, and is not the most popular; the Images have that distinction).

So the Paradigm comparison - very interesting.

For one thing, Paradigm really does have a clear design goal with their speakers and they use it pretty much across their entire lineup. They aim for a scientifically calculated frequency response based upon the research that is conducted at the NRC. So it is not at all surprising when the Mini Monitor and the Studio 10 and Studio 20 all sound far more alike than they do different!
Uh, did you know that PSB uses the NRC as well? Since 1974! I believe they started using it before even Paradigm did?

Anyways, sorry about the defensive fanboyism, I'm usually not like that, but then again I'm usually not compared to Bose lovers!!! :eek::p
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
The stand/shelf mount situation is another case where I cannot recommend highly enough that you simply decouple your speakers from the surface upon which they are sitting.

If you are using stands, I certainly recommend nice, heavy stands that will not tip or sway, but I am not someone who agrees with the need for sand or lead shot filled stands. The reason I think this is because sand or lead shot filled stands are meant to become less resonant and inert by virtue or increasing their mass with the sand or lead shot. This is all cogent reasoning, but it can also serve to better couple the stands to the floor. So while the stands themselves will shake less, any shaking that DOES occur will be transmitted very strongly into the floor!

So I MUCH prefer to decouple the speakers. You can either decouple the speakers themselves with something like the Auralex MoPads or SpeakerDude decoupling pads or you can sit the speakers on some nice, heavy, inert-as-possible stands and then decouple the stands from the floor. I prefer to decouple the speakers themselves, but in some situations, that makes the speakers easier to accidentally knock off of the stands. In the case of a shelf mount though, it is ideal to decouple the speakers! You do not want any physical shaking of the speakers to be transmitted into the shelf upon which they sit. That would cause the shelf to also shake and, in turn, the structure to which the shelf is attached will also end up shaking!

I really like the Auralex products, but the MoPads and SpeakerDude really do seem a little over-priced, IMO. It's only $40 for a pair, so it's not like it's the end of the world, but $40 still seems a bit high to me for some effective foam pads. Still...I continue to recommend them because they work very, very well :)
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
jostenmeat - lol ! No worries!

I am aware that PSB has based their designs on NRC research. My statements might not have been clear enough, but I did mention that the PSB design with rolled-off highs was a purposeful choice and not something that they did by accident.

Quite a few different speaker companies took their design cues from the NRC research, but they did not all decide upon the exact same design. The research concluded that certain measurable aspects of a speakers output correlated to listener preferences, but from there, different companies drew their own conclusions about which particular aspects were most important to the design.

Paradigm focused largely on the off-axis response. PSB seemingly noted that slightly rolled-off highs correlated to many positive reactions and ran with that particular aspect. Axiom focused on the flat on-axis anechoic response. And JBL focused on the accumulated response of measurements taken all around the speaker.

So even though the NRC research turned up actual measurable differences that correlated to positive listener responses, not all companies took the exact same design cues from that research.

And I didn't mean at all to say that PSB lovers are also Bose lovers :eek: All I meant is that people who were unfortunate enough to waste their money on Bose and eventually realized that things could sound SO much better often seem to really like the PSB sound. It's highly likely that if they were using Bose cubes, the room is either medium or small in size. As such, the rolled-off highs of the PSB speakers would be a plus because, as I said, even perfectly flat frequency response might sound "bright" in a smaller, reflective room.

I'm personally not a fan of a "warm" sound and I happen to really like as much detail as possible without distortion, so for me, the PSB sound isn't my top choice. But I still recommend PSB speakers to some people because if their room is a certain type and they also prefer a certain type of sound, then PSB might be the best fit and THAT is what it's all about! :)
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Thanks for your comments!
As far as speaker stands, I'm afraid these speakers will end up installed on a shelf, or some type of wall mount to meet WAF specifications. Any ideas on implementation with this restriction in mind are appreciated!

After some thought, I think my best next move is to bring in some music with pizzicato type sharp attacks to compare on the speakers. If I can be sloppy with statements, the Mini emphasized the string and the Studio emphasized the note. These are subtle differences - Obviously the note and the string were well present on both speakers.
I also noticed the same on the sound of electric bass. On the Mini the metallic sharpness of the string was strongly present - maybe a little more of a "raw" sound I liked. On the Studio it was more as if the note just appeared, strong and solid, more restrained and refined. As far as passing judgment, the question is what is the recorded sound of the bass. Are the Mini's over emphasizing the string sound or are the Studio's a little slower with transients?
Hopefully, some focused listening to music rich with this type of content will make the differences more pronounced and easier to decide on.
Hi KEW,

When I read this post, I was a bit shocked. Because you are saying that you want to install your speakers on a shelf! Or wall mounted! Ouch! Not the best way for serious audio listening. I think that it would be a good idea that your wife and yourself take the time to openly discuss the benefit of great sound from unobtrusive speakers, mounted on appropriate speaker's stands.

Also, don't forget that because of the better quality of drivers from the Reference Studio line of speakers, and also the Paradigm recommendation that you break them in for about 100 hours, the Studio 20 is a much better speaker than the Mini Monitor, even if the Mini is a great speaker in his own right.

*** Stands are highly recommended for speakers like the Studio 20s.

If you really want to put your speakers on shelves, just get the Mini Monitors.

BUT, please, do take the time to reconsider my advice, because great sound is after all our business.

Regards,

Bob
 
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john72953

john72953

Full Audioholic
Hi KEW,

When I read this post, I was a bit shocked. Because you are saying that you want to install your speakers on a shelf! Or wall mounted! Ouch! Not the best way for serious audio listening. I think that it would be a good idea that your wife and yourself take the time to openly discuss the benefit of great sound from unobtrusive speakers, mounted on appropriate speaker's stands.

Also, don't forget that because of the better quality of drivers from the Reference Studio line of speakers, and also the Paradigm recommendation that you break them in for about 100 hours, the Studio 20 is a much better speaker than the Mini Monitor, even if the Mini is a great speaker in his own right.

*** Stands are highly recommended for speakers like the Studio 20s.

If you really want to put your speakers on shelves, just get the Mini Monitors.

BUT, please, do take the time to reconsider my advice, because great sound is after all our business.

Regards,

Bob
Then you should point out that the Totem Rainmakers should definately be considered. The Totem sound is something the OP has said he likes. To go off and discount their inclusion in further discussion shows that you may not be so interested in the "great sound that is our business". You're just forcing your opinion on what YOU think is right.

John
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
If music is your primary passion, I would gently request that you not give up on the Totem Rainmakers just yet.

John
The Totems aren't off of the table.
However, therein lies a true quandary!
My next step with the Totems is to compare the Rainmakers to the Vandersteens. However, I do not currently see the means to compare the champion of that test with the Paradigm.
I am hoping that something will come up to work that out. I really don't believe I can listen to good speakers #1, then wait 20 minutes, listen to good speakers #2 in a different room and decide which sounds best. But for now, I am working on establishing favorites within the groupings that the dealers allow.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Then you should point out that the Totem Rainmakers should definately be considered. The Totem sound is something the OP has said he likes. To go off and discount their inclusion in further discussion shows that you may not be so interested in the "great sound that is our business". You're just forcing your opinion on what YOU think is right.

John
I am probably the one at fault on that count, but until I get to actually hear the Rainmakers with them on the same wall as the Vandersteen, I am taking a hiatus from Totem. My attention is on the Paradigms because I have listened to them.
 
Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
Next time you demo the above listed speakers....ask the saleman if he/she can grab the speakers across the room and move them to the same listening area. A good dealer will move around all the speakers so you can compare the speakers with the same acoustics. Don't be afraid to ask!
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Paradigm focused largely on the off-axis response. PSB seemingly noted that slightly rolled-off highs correlated to many positive reactions and ran with that particular aspect. Axiom focused on the flat on-axis anechoic response.
For the record, it was Dr. Toole through his research at the NRC that determined that the natural preference is for a flat speaker response with a slight high end roll-off, not PSB. He also determined that an off axis response as close to that as the on axis response sounded best. Both Paul Barton (sp??) of PSB and Ian Calhoun of Axiom were involved in many of the listening trials that Dr. Toole set up.

All three of the above manufacturers follow this design philosophy. Paradigm Studios the Axiom line and PSB speakers all have a very flat frequency response (the Studio's are a little flatter) both on and off axis. They both also measure very low in distortion (again, the studio is a little lower).

You can view anechoic measurements for speakers for all 3 manufacturers at Soundstageav.

I expect that all three manufacturers use an anechoic chamber to measure their speakers as this is the only way to measure the speaker only without the room affecting the measurements.

OK, the pedant in me feels better now...
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
One thing I absolutely hate about the way most shops display their speakers, whether good, better or best quality is that they almost always have other speakers in the room. How many people have more than one pair of main speakers in the same room, let alone next to each other on the same wall? Almost none and when many speakers are in the same room, the response off what is playing will be affected.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Next time you demo the above listed speakers....ask the saleman if he/she can grab the speakers across the room and move them to the same listening area. A good dealer will move around all the speakers so you can compare the speakers with the same acoustics. Don't be afraid to ask!
"The sales guy said he'd be happy to move the Totems to the same side of the room, but I'll wait until the Rainmakers are on the shelf."
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Then you should point out that the Totem Rainmakers should definately be considered. The Totem sound is something the OP has said he likes. To go off and discount their inclusion in further discussion shows that you may not be so interested in the "great sound that is our business". You're just forcing your opinion on what YOU think is right.

John
Hey John, I don't dismiss them, I just simply forgot to mention them.

* I did actually talk to KEW by PM, and told him to take his time, and audition as many speakers as he can.
A post is never complete till all members chip in, or should I say chime in.
I ain't forcing no one. I'm only forcing myself to be simple, so it's less complicated for KEW.
What I really think is right is PEACE ON EARTH.

Bob
 
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john72953

john72953

Full Audioholic
Hey John, I don't dismiss them, I just simply forgot to mention them.

* I did actually talk to KEW by PM, and told him to take his time, and audition as many speakers as he can.
A post is never complete till all members chip in, or should I say chime in.
I ain't forcing no one. I'm only forcing myself to be simple, so it's less complicated for KEW.
What I really think is right is PEACE ON EARTH.

Bob
Cool enough Bob! :) I think a comparison between the vandersteen's and the Totem's is a really good one, as they are both considered to be quite musical. If KEW's dealer is any good at all, he should have no issue with letting him listen in a proper environment (placement). That is going to be a very interesting comparison and I'm axious to hear what comes out of it.

Speakers, like the ones mentioned above, are often discounted for use in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, so it's refreshing to read that someone (KEW) is not just following the hordes and instead is letting his ears do the listening for a sound that satisfies him.

For the record, I never ever push or promote my Totem setup and am certainly not doing that in this case either. It is nice to see they are being considered however, hence my interest in the thread.

John
 
J

just listening

Audioholic
I think the Rainmakers will need more room than what a bookshelf will offer. The Mites on the other hand are more likely to perform better on a shelf as they are a true mini-monitor.

Like another poster has said, don't be afraid to get the salesman to set them up in the way you expect to hear them.
 
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