Noob Questions On My First AV Receiver (Be Gentle)

[Suntower]

I want to apologise right up front for the stupidosity of my questions. I feel -very- embarrassed that I have to ask this stuff. It’s time to get into the 20th... if not the 21st century.

I’m an older guy who doesn’t have a clue about home theatre. I run a recording studio so I know a lot about pro audio and computers but I am embarrassed to say my TV is a 10 year old 100lb hunk o’ glass and my stereo goes back to 1975 (Ohm speakers, anyone?)

I actually -do- have an el-cheapo Samsung ‘Home Theatre’ which is a self-contained 5-DVD player with 5.1 speakers. Actually, that part of it works -fine- for my needs. I don’t wanna offend anyone here, but the quality of the audio or video is about =10th= on the list---In fact, if I can keep my current Sony WEGA I’ll be fine until it starts smoking.

In a couple of sentences, I want a box (boxes?) which plays DVDs, CDs, turntable and my TV with ONE remote control. And I want to be able to sit down with my laptop and have the audio and video from -that- come up on the TV and speaker system.

1. So I assume I need an ‘AV Receiver’. What’s the entry level $? Brands?

2. My laptop has an HDMI output. Does that carry audio as well as video? Or is there a -bluetooth- or wi-fi way to interface the laptop to the receiver?

3. If I want to stream video (like from my network server or from Netflix) is it practical to just feed it from my laptop or are there advantages to getting one of those GoogleTV type boxes?

4. Do they all come with a -really- ‘universal’ remote control---ie that works properly with current gear? I’ve tried a few remotes with my Sony TV and they don’t work. Is there now standardisation amongst all hardware vendors (that might make it worth getting a new TV.)

OK, that’s it for openers.

TIA and Merry Christmas!

---JC

 

[Adam]

Hi, JC, and Merry Christmas to you, too!

I don't have all the answers, but I'll try to get the ball rolling.

In a couple of sentences, I want a box (boxes?) which plays DVDs, CDs, turntable and my TV with ONE remote control.

The only thing that stood out to me there was the turntable. I don't remember ones that were remote controlled, but I'm guessing it is or you wouldn't ask. What is the make and model of it? I'm betting that you'll need a learning remote to run it, as universal remotes these days won't have those codes programmed into them. Learning remotes come with some receivers, but you can buy them separately for not too much money. Something like a Logitech Harmony One might serve you well. Remote controls is a whole topic in itself, with some people loving Logitech, and others loving other brands.

And I want to be able to sit down with my laptop and have the audio and video from -that- come up on the TV and speaker system.

What audio/video output options are available on your laptop? You mentioned HDMI, but I'm assuming that your 10 year old Sony doesn't have an HDMI input. If HDMI is all the laptop has, and if the Sony can't accept it, then you can get a converter like this for about $40.

1. So I assume I need an ‘AV Receiver’. What’s the entry level $? Brands?

Maybe, but if your current system does everything that you want except control everything by remote, then getting a new remote control might be the best option.

2. My laptop has an HDMI output. Does that carry audio as well as video? Or is there a -bluetooth- or wi-fi way to interface the laptop to the receiver?

I'm going to bet that it does carry audio and video. Others here likely have more experience on this than me, but I'm not familiar with laptop HDMI outputs that only carry video.

3. If I want to stream video (like from my network server or from Netflix) is it practical to just feed it from my laptop or are there advantages to getting one of those GoogleTV type boxes?

You can certainly feed it from your laptop, but convenience is the other factor to consider. Do you mind connecting and disconnecting the laptop from your system whenever you want to stream something, and do you mind not being able to use your laptop while you're streaming?

4. Do they all come with a -really- ‘universal’ remote control---ie that works properly with current gear?

Discussed above. They are all pretty good, but few or none are truly universal. A learning remote is your best bet.

 

[agarwalro]

IMO, your questions are far from noob. With your professional experience, your ears must be better trained to discern good vs. bad audio than a big majority of all folks.

In fact, if I can keep my current Sony WEGA I’ll be fine until it starts smoking.

I believe the TV is the weakest link. Upgrade this device and most of your needs will be met.

A modern TV can be hooked up to your home network through wifi. It will natively support streaming media (Netflix, Hulu, You Tube, etc.) and connect to your media server for local content. All TVs in this list meet your needs without having to add an AV Receiver.

For the turntable I recommend a dedicated listening setup .

 

[Suntower]

Wow. You guys are like Karnak The Magnificent!

Thanks, I didn't expect a reply until after the holiday. With so many questions, I fear this will spin out of control but for now...

1. I guess I had a misapprehension that the TV was something like a 'dumb terminal' and the AV receiver would link to the laptop somehow. But from what was written, it's the -TV- that has all the interfaces with computers---which seems backasswards to me if the Receiver is the 'hub' of the whole deal but OK. Is that correct? ie. Your laptop 'talks' directly to the TV through wi-fi or ethernet or -whatever-?

2. I didn't know they -had- remote controlled turntables! I just want a receiver that -has- phono inputs---and a way to switch the audio input to the turntable via remote. I looked @ a few low end receivers and they had -no- phono input.

Thanks!

---JC

 

[Adam]

Ahhh, I didn't know that you actually wanted a receiver. I thought that you were wondering if you needed one. I think that I understand a bit better now.

Some notes:

• Receivers can certainly be the hub of your system. That's how my system is set up. You can route everything through there, but you don't need to.
• These days, I think that it's easier and less expensive to buy a phono preamp rather than limit yourself to a receiver with a phono input. There are folks on here that have ones that they recommend, and you might want to search for that. In a nutshell, it's a small box like this that you plug your turntable into, and then you plug the preamp into a normal receiver input.
• If your TV doesn't have HDMI, then you'll need a converter box like I mentioned in my previous post or you'll need a receiver that will convert HDMI inputs to analog outputs (I seem to recall seeing one or more that do it, but none are coming to mind). I don't think that you'd find that capability in a receiver under $500 (just a guess).
• TVs can be just a dumb terminal, or they can connect with a network. They've come a long way in 10 years. It all depends on which TV you buy. You said that you'd like to keep yours, and you can.

 

[Suntower]

Wow. You guys are like fast, Fast, FAST!

I can definitely get a phono pre-amp. Got -lots- of that stuff for working with djs, so I guess that opens up options.

So for -now-...

1. I guess it's important for me to find out if HDMI carries -audio- as well as video. If it does, I wouldn't mind getting a 'converter' and hooking a cable to my receiver when needed.

2. What's the max length of an HDMI cable? Can it be 25'?


3. OK, here's my BIG confusion: When a TV or receiver comes with wi-fi or ethernet, how does one 'control' it? ie. When I get wi-fi or ethernet on a PC, it brings in data from my network that my PC accesses. If a TV receives ethernet or wi-fi (same difference, really) does it have it's own 'browser' of sorts or other operating system? I can't imagine 'surfing' with a remote control.

What I -think- I want is for the TV to just be like a wireless 'KVM' for my laptop---ie, just act as an external screen and speakers for my laptop, but do this without hooking up a cable. How is this done?

Merry Christmas!

---JC

 

[Adam]

Always happy to help if I can!

1. If you keep your TV and get a receiver, I'd put that HDMI-to-component (or whichever conversion is proper for your TV) converter box between the receiver and the TV.

2. HDMI cables come in pretty long lengths. I think that the longer lengths can be problematic based on what I've read (for example, you might need active cables to keep a good signal), but 25' doesn't sound bad to me. Monoprice.com has good prices on HDMI cables. Of course, buy whatever you want, but I think Monoprice gives you a good baseline for how much something should cost.

3. TVs with networking functionality will have their own menu system which is controlled by their remote - at least the ones that I've seen are. My Panasonic has internet capabilities, but it's nothing like your PC. It has a menu with some different options (like Amazon Video on Demand). A number of TVs these days will have the ability to stream Netflix. Some can connect to your network and stream files like agarwalro mentioned, but it would still be through the TVs menu system.

As for using the TV as a wireless monitor for your laptop...I've never done it, but I just Googled "use TV as wireless monitor" and got some results, including this: "How to Use a TV As a Wireless Monitor" (there might be better ways, but that tells you that it's possible).

 

[GoFastr]

My Denon AVR-3311CI has an ethernet port on it which I connected to my internet router. I think I could have found a wireless bridge or some type of device to make it connect wirelessly too but it wasn't too hard for me to just run a ethernet cable to it. In the AVR setup menu there is a place to give it an IP address for your network or just let your internet router assign one automatically using DHCP.

From the short time time that I have had it hooked up I can access internet radio stations, create an account on Napster, Rhapsody or Pandora to access streaming music, or I can just access my PC with whatever pictures, music or movies I already have stored on there. The AVR even has a USB port where I can plug in an iPod or other external storage like a USB portable hard drive and access pictures music or movies directly from there too.

The AVR has a built in menu system which you use the remote for to control it. I can also control the AVR directly with my laptop or PC by typing in the IP address of the AVR and then the menu displays on the PC/laptop screen.

I also purchased a Logitech Harmony 1100 remote for the wife which she finds so much easier. They come with a USB cable that you plug into your PC/laptop. You just create an account on the Logitech site and tell it what TV, AVR, DVD player, cable TV box, etc. whatever equipment you have and it goes and collects all the codes from the manufacturers and programs the remote for you and saves it to your account. This way when the batteries run out or you mess up putting a code in manually you can always plug it in and recover everything again. It asks you questions like what you want turned on when you watch cable TV, or just listen to radio, CD or internet music, or watch a DVD, etc. It's then just a one button push and everything turns on that is necessary for that purpose. Same for shutdown or if you switch to do something else. They are nice investments. You can find used ones for good deals on eBay and audio classified sites too for a lot less money than new. Some people get them and then don't want to bother spending a little time progarmming them. I guess they also had trouble trying to set the recording time on the old VCR tape machines for their favorite shows when at work!

Anyways, I thought I would share a few other scenarios with you too. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[Suntower]

HOLY HI-DEFINITION, BAT MAN!

I just confirmed that all I need is to send $60 to monoprice and I got one big part of the problem solved. My current Samsung Home Theatre DVD Player/Receiver has only a 'composite' video input (the yellow rca jack) so I thought I was screwed. But they carry a converter that will work. So I can hook my PC to my TV/Speakers WOOHOO!

And then I have one more input I can use with a phono pre-amp so I can hook up my turntable. Double woohoo!

The only downsides are:
1. The Samsung 5.1 speakers are -fine- for watching movies or listening to NPR, but for listening to real -music- in stereo? Oy veh.

2. I haven't found a remote that will properly 'control' both the Samsung Home Theatre and the Sony TV.

I think both issues will be solved when the TV dies in a couple of years and I upgrade to a real 'home theatre'.

PARTING IGNORAMUS QUESTION: The 'home theatre' speaker systems I see @ Best Buy all seem 'optimised' <cough cough> for DVDs. I shouldn't roll my eyes because that's what I've got and ironically, I'm fine with it. I mean, it's like a boombox---it's freq response is crap, but it works great for it's intended purpose. I don't -expect- Brahms to sound good on a boombox. I expect Sir Mixalot to sound OK on a boombox. Same with 5.1 speakers. For most movies, they work -fine-. You hear the dialog; you really feel the explosions; it's all good. But I can't imagine using just the 2.1 part of it for stereo.

So here's my question: Do most people with home theatre systems have two sets of speakers: a 5.1 set and then a 2.1 set for stereo? Or are there 'budget' 5.1 speakers/receivers that also do serious music listening well also?

I told you it was an ignoramus question....

---JC

Always happy to help if I can!

1. If you keep your TV and get a receiver, I'd put that HDMI-to-component (or whichever conversion is proper for your TV) converter box between the receiver and the TV.

2. HDMI cables come in pretty long lengths. I think that the longer lengths can be problematic based on what I've read (for example, you might need active cables to keep a good signal), but 25' doesn't sound bad to me. Monoprice.com has good prices on HDMI cables. Of course, buy whatever you want, but I think Monoprice gives you a good baseline for how much something should cost.

3. TVs with networking functionality will have their own menu system which is controlled by their remote - at least the ones that I've seen are. My Panasonic has internet capabilities, but it's nothing like your PC. It has a menu with some different options (like Amazon Video on Demand). A number of TVs these days will have the ability to stream Netflix. Some can connect to your network and stream files like agarwalro mentioned, but it would still be through the TVs menu system.

As for using the TV as a wireless monitor for your laptop...I've never done it, but I just Googled "use TV as wireless monitor" and got some results, including this: "How to Use a TV As a Wireless Monitor" (there might be better ways, but that tells you that it's possible).

 

[Adam]

Merry Christmas! I'm glad that you found an easy solution.

I only have one set of speakers. I think that mine are fine for home theater and music. Others here spend more on a single speaker than I did on my whole rig, though. I don't listen to much music in my living room anymore, but I enjoyed them when I did. To me, it all comes down to reaching that threshold where you're happy with your system - and I'm happy using the same speakers for both.

As for if there are any good "budget" 5.1 systems, that completely depends on your definitions of "good" and "budget." I'm not trying to be a smart-a** or deep thinker. What budget do you have in mind?

 

[Suntower]

Well, I ended up getting a D-Link Intel Wireless Display Adapter for $100.

If you're note familiar, it's built into a lot of newer laptops and it turns out mine has it. It's basically a transmitter box you hook to your TV.

Your laptop transmits audio & video to the TV by piggybacking onto your wi-fi. So you need a good strong wi-fi router. And also, it has a wireless range of perhaps 15/20 ft.

Surprisingly, it works -fine-. BUT...

Since it transmits what's on yer screen (which is 1366 x 768 ), if your TV is standard def (like mine)? The picture is -crap-. Pretty much unreadable. So... I guess I have to reconsider an HDTV.

MORE NOOB QUESTIONS:
1. When a TV is said to be '1080' is that 1080 pixels -horizontally- per inch or -vertically-?

2. When a TV is '42"' that's measured corner to corner -diagonally-, right? With a 4:3 ratio or 16:9? I ask because I want to make sure I match the screen to my computer properly.

3. At all the bargain stores, they are pushing LED tvs. The salespeople all say they're better value than plasma. But it -seems- like the higher end ones are all plasma. Who's right? I don't need the blackest blacks, but I would like something reliable and I'm on a serious budget. Suggestions?

Thanks,

---JC

 

[Adam]

Since it transmits what's on yer screen (which is 1366 x 768 ), if your TV is standard def (like mine)? The picture is -crap-. Pretty much unreadable. So... I guess I have to reconsider an HDTV.

HDTV is soooo nice. Join the dark side.

Try setting the resolution on your laptop to 640 x 480 (if you can) and see how that looks.

1. When a TV is said to be '1080' is that 1080 pixels -horizontally- per inch or -vertically-?

That's vertically. The resolution is 1920 x 1080.

When a TV is '42"' that's measured corner to corner -diagonally-, right? With a 4:3 ratio or 16:9? I ask because I want to make sure I match the screen to my computer properly.

Yes, it's measured diagonally. TVs these days are 16:9. A number of computer monitors are 16:10. Don't ask me why. It's whether or not your graphics card/chip can handle the resolution of the TV, and I'll bet that it can because your laptop has that D-Link connection.

At all the bargain stores, they are pushing LED tvs. The salespeople all say they're better value than plasma. But it -seems- like the higher end ones are all plasma. Who's right? I don't need the blackest blacks, but I would like something reliable and I'm on a serious budget. Suggestions?

That's a thread in and of itself, and there are several on here related to the pros/cons of different TV technologies. I recommend that you peruse here and on the internet. I picked plasma for better off-axis viewing and because (at the time) I could get a better anti-reflective screen that is very nice in my well-lit living room.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Some noob wishes that need to be addressed in terms of the real world:

Wireless transmission of video to a TV from a PC is difficult.

People throw around networking wi-fi terms and thinks it translates to A/V easily, but it truthfully is not simple at all. Audio and video, unless it is compressed, is a TON of data. When you get cable TV at home that is a compressed signal, but what comes out of your laptop, or out of a DVD player or cable box is uncompressed video. It is on a magnitude which is easily 10 times or more of the compressed signal that was originally sent.

To give you a comparison, a home network has some difficulty keeping up with two or three compressed HD streams across a wired network. One uncomprssed stream will typically be more than a home network can handle.

So, you can compress the signal and send it, but you get something similar to what you are currently seeing -which is most often very poor video quality.

The solution for wireless video transmission? They now have wireless HDMI transmitters/receivers which can transmit uncompressed HDMI about 20' or so. They run $200 or more pretty easily.

Alright, second thing I've noticed in your responses...

You need to understand what the different video connectors are and their quality and resolution capabilities.

Video: Standard broadcast television resolutions are 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24, and 1080p/60. It is worth reading Wikipedia about what those five resolutions mean, but the general breakdown is:
480i = 720x480 broken into halves
480p = 720x480 sent as a whole
720p = 1280x720 sent as a whole
1080i = 1920x1080 broken into halves
1080p/60 = 1920x1080 sent as a whole, 60 frames per second (high end video/PCs)
1080p/24 = 1920x1080 sent as a whole, 24 frames per second (movies)

Composite (yellow RCA connection) - This is the bottom of the line. It carries standard 480i video. It can NOT output any resolution higher than 480i.

S-Video (funky round 4-pin connection) - A quarter of a step up from composite and rarely looks better than composite. Still can't go higher than 480i.

Component video (red, green, blue RCA connections) - Can carry resolutions higher than 480i! This most often is 480p, 720p, and 1080i. It can carry 1080p, but rarely does so.

VGA/RGB - These are computer standard video connections using a 15-pin connector or five wire connection. It can carry standard video resolutions, but most often is carrying computer resolutions like 1024x768 (XGA) or 1366x768 (WXGA), or some other standard PC/VESA resolution. Note: VESA is a standards group often associated with PC standards, it does not directly tie into NTSC/ATSC standards which control video standards and their resolutions!

HDMI - This is what I consider one of the gold standards for connections these days. It carries all video resolutions up to, and beyond 1080p video including newer 3D standards. It also can carry audio on the same connection. If you have a laptop with a HDMI connection you can typically get 1080p resolution off that connection WITH audio right on it! A direct connection from your PC to a receiver or TV will deliver audio and video. Note: HDMI's audio connection can carry HD audio which can be identical to what a studio album or movie is mastered from! Best audio and best video in one.

DVI - Older digital connection similar to HDMI and orignally pushed by PC manufacturers as a digital standard. Not used nearly as much but still definitely out there. No audio on this, but high quality digital video in all formats possible.

There are a lot of other connections out there, but those are really the most common. DisplayPort is being pushed off by some PC manufacturers as 'the future', but seems to be a direct competitor to HDMI without any obvious advantages.

HD-BaseT (HDBaseT) is by far the most exciting new connection IMO. It carries HD audio, HD video, 3D video, and ethernet, and MORE all over a single CAT5 or CAT6 cable over 300 feet. Cheap cable, small simple connection. It is NOT a network standard, but uses standard cheap, reliable cable.

As for speakers, it is better to buy good speakers and pair them up with a good receiver and buy quality first. You already have cheap and entry level, so start saving up for quality and get it into the mix.

 

[Suntower]

Thanks for all the info (as usual!)

I realise now that there is no incremental way to get 'there'. I gotta get a new TV and it's gotta be at least the same resolution as my computer(s).

And the D-Link think has gotta go... for some of the reasons given above. It piggybacks on Wi-Fi and compresses the signal so what I found is that watching a movie, which requires wi-fi bandwidth both to stream from the server and then to send from the computer to the TV, is just too much for this technology. So it's gotta be HDMI... either wired or a dedicated transmitter.

IN CONCLUSION: I need a new TV which is at least 50" and 1080 and 120hz. Crap. More research needed!

And -ideally- I'd like another 'all-in-one' budget theatre like I got, with cheap-o 5.1 speakers BUT with a second 'zone' so I could hook up some decent stereo listening speakers and an HDMI input. If it's not beneath the experts here, is there anything out there like this?

Thanks!

---JC