No surround sound from Marantz-Paradigm HT after upgrading from dvd player to bluray‏

[vpantvaidya]

I have been using my Marantz SR5200 receiver and 5.1 Paradigm speakers with a Panasonic DVD player for past several years. With the optical audio output of the DVD player connected to the receiver's optical audio input, I was able to hear proper surround sound from all speakers. Now I have upgraded to Samsung BD-P1600 Blueray player and the optical audio output of blueray player is now connected to receiver's optical audio input. When I play a DVD movie and the player outputs a PCM signal, I hear only stereo sound from the front 2 speakers. When I change the blueray player setup to output bitstream (reencoded), I get surround sound, but the volume from the speakers is almost inaudible. Is the Marantz receiver not compatible with the blueray player? If not, how can I correct this?

 

[TLS Guy]

I have been using my Marantz SR5200 receiver and 5.1 Paradigm speakers with a Panasonic DVD player for past several years. With the optical audio output of the DVD player connected to the receiver's optical audio input, I was able to hear proper surround sound from all speakers. Now I have upgraded to Samsung BD-P1600 Blueray player and the optical audio output of blueray player is now connected to receiver's optical audio input. When I play a DVD movie and the player outputs a PCM signal, I hear only stereo sound from the front 2 speakers. When I change the blueray player setup to output bitstream (reencoded), I get surround sound, but the volume from the speakers is almost inaudible. Is the Marantz receiver not compatible with the blueray player? If not, how can I correct this?

As you have found out that player only outputs two channel via optical on PCM.

The manual is vague about bitstream. In one area of the manual, I have the impression you can only get multichannel audio from HDMI from that player.

Just make sure the player is outputting Dolby 5.1, as you can not send Dolby True HD via optical connection.

 

[Knucklehead90]

Your receiver can decode DTS - set the player to Bitstream (re-encode). This sends a bitstream via optical in DTS. If that doesn't work check your Toslink cable - or use coax if the player has that option.

See page 37 in your DVD manual.

 

[TLS Guy]

Your receiver can decode DTS - set the player to Bitstream (re-encode). This sends a bitstream via optical in DTS. If that doesn't work check your Toslink cable - or use coax if the player has that option.

See page 37 in your DVD manual.

I'm not sure. I saw Page 37 and I think it is vague and hedging.

Bitstream
(Re-encode)
Decodes Primary, Secondary
and Effect audio streams
together into PCM audio, then
re-encodes the PCM audio
into DTS bitstream.
You can enjoy not only
Primary audio, but also
Secondary and Effect audio
together.
Audio quality may be lower
than PCM or Bitstream
(Audiophile) setups when you
are using a receiver with
HDMI or Optical input.
Recommended choice if you
don’t have an HDMI
supported receiver, but have
a receiver with an Optical
input that can decode DTS.

 

[jostenmeat]

TLS, I think* the blurb you provided basically means that the player can re-encode anything that is thrown at it. Back in the day, not all players could (which would would be a problem with the extremely rare disc that had mch PCM, but no accompanying lossy mch track, in which case re-encoding is necessary for S/PDIF).

The 1600 looks like it can do it all (except for mch analogs), as far as bitstreaming, or internally decoding, however both ways for DTS-MA in particular seems* that it was finally included in FW update (?).

However, DTS-MA is a moot point, because with S/PDIF all that is needed, and happens, is the use of the "core" DTS bitstream. The extension bitstream (MA) is simply left out.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS, I think* the blurb you provided basically means that the player can re-encode anything that is thrown at it. Back in the day, not all players could (which would would be a problem with the extremely rare disc that had mch PCM, but no accompanying lossy mch track, in which case re-encoding is necessary for S/PDIF).

The 1600 looks like it can do it all (except for mch analogs), as far as bitstreaming, or internally decoding, however both ways for DTS-MA in particular seems* that it was finally included in FW update (?).

However, DTS-MA is a moot point, because with S/PDIF all that is needed, and happens, is the use of the "core" DTS bitstream. The extension bitstream (MA) is simply left out.

I think the manual is not clearly written. My impression is that is what they meant, but I'm still not certain. I guess the OP will have to call Samsung Customer support if a new cable does not sort it out.

 

[vpantvaidya]

Some additional info

Thanks folks. I really appreciate your replies. Here is some more info:

The BD-P1600 bluray player has following 3 settings in audio setup. Here are the results I got in each case when using the optical o/p to connect to my receiver:
1. PCM: outputs stereo only
2. bitstream(reencoded) - outputs surround sound but audio level is extremely low, almost inaudible
3. bitstream(audiophile) - outputs only to center channel

The BD-P1600 manual mentions the following at 2 different places:
a. optical cable connection is recommended when connecting to a non-HDMI amplifier but in this case discs with LPCM soundtracks will only be heard over front 2 channels
b. if optical cable is used, multichannel sound may not be heard

The question that I have now is:
- do movie DVDs in US region have LPCM soundtracks?
- even if they do, why did my older Panasonic DVD player deliver surround sound when connected to same receiver using optical o/p. Do I need to look for an alternative bluray player that has similar capability?

I have tried playing only DVD on the bluray player so far. Am going to be trying a bluray movie today.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks folks. I really appreciate your replies. Here is some more info:

The BD-P1600 bluray player has following 3 settings in audio setup. Here are the results I got in each case when using the optical o/p to connect to my receiver:
1. PCM: outputs stereo only
2. bitstream(reencoded) - outputs surround sound but audio level is extremely low, almost inaudible
3. bitstream(audiophile) - outputs only to center channel

The BD-P1600 manual mentions the following at 2 different places:
a. optical cable connection is recommended when connecting to a non-HDMI amplifier but in this case discs with LPCM soundtracks will only be heard over front 2 channels
b. if optical cable is used, multichannel sound may not be heard

The question that I have now is:
- do movie DVDs in US region have LPCM soundtracks?
- even if they do, why did my older Panasonic DVD player deliver surround sound when connected to same receiver using optical o/p. Do I need to look for an alternative bluray player that has similar capability?

I have tried playing only DVD on the bluray player so far. Am going to be trying a bluray movie today.

I was afraid of that reading the manual. I would say those BD players are duds unless you can use HDMI for video and audio.

This might be an issue on other players as the studios are pushing for manufacturers to only allow HD audio via HDMI connection only. So you may have to update your receiver rather than the BD player. I bet there are BD players you can get now, but I see this hassle in the future. I suspect Samsung did this to avoid possible lawsuits from Hollywood.

As far as LPCM the answer is sometimes yes, but it is two channel.

 

[vpantvaidya]

results with bluray disc

Tried a bluray movie now, here are the results with that:

1. PCM: still outputs stereo only
2. bitstream(reencoded) - outputs DTD surround sound, audio level is higher than for DVD but still lower than with Panasonic DVD player
3. bitstream(audiophile) - outputs Dolby Digital with full surround sound at expected level

The stereo output in #1 and the lower audio o/p in #2 are expected and documented in the BD-P1600 manual. So my conclusions are:
- the player will not play DVD with proper audio with the optical connection, so I either need to try out a different player or an HDMI receiver
- bluray discs will play well in the bitstream(audiophile) mode.

Thanks TLS - so from your post, it looks like other bluplayers with behave similarly. So I need to get an HDMI receiver if I want to hear DVDs correctly.

Is this because of some political manoeuvring by the Bluray camp to push folks to migrate from DVDs after having won the war against HDDVD.

 

[vpantvaidya]

TLS - one more thing. You mentioned "studios are pushing for manufacturers to only allow HD audio via HDMI connection only". But my receiver is not even HD it is just a 5.1 receiver - so all I am expecting is that the bluray player be compatible with the DVD standard and output sound correctly over the optical cnxn when a DVD is played. But seems like that is too much to expect from this Samsung BD-P1600 box.

 

[jostenmeat]

I had a few spare minutes, looked around, and don't know what to say. Trying to DL manual had my firefox crash.

Please update your bluray player. Especially if you never have before. This may solve your issues. My brother's Sony couldn't even play a DVD until he did. After all your player can't even handle DTSMA until after FW. If your track was DTSMA, perhaps the player just doesn't know what to do with it, particularly when bitstreaming (what track was it that only had center channel?).

For the future, please make sure you list what movie you are putting on when describing an issue.

There are many, many blurays that use 5.1 mch PCM as the lossless soundtrack. Of course, you can't really access that.

To reiterate, try FW update first, and then please report back.

 

[vpantvaidya]

Yikes - thanks josten. I had thought sometime earlier that I should try and see if any firmware update is available but had totally forgotten about it. Thanks for reminding - will try that out.

Meanwhile here are the DVD and bluray movies I used in my tests (all are from blockbuster):

DVDs - KungFu Panda, Finding Nemo
Bluray - Whiteout

 

[vpantvaidya]

I did a couple of things and now DVD audio seems almost where it needs to be:

1. updated player firmware from 2.04 to 2.05
2. set player audio setting for dynamic compression to off

Now while playing a DVD, the player still behaves same with PCM / bitstream (reencoded) settings. But with bitstream (audiophile) setting, I get proper surround sound. I think the dynamic compression change made the difference - the BD-P1600 manual does say that "When Movie soundtracks are played at low volume or from smaller speakers, the system can apply appropriate compression to make low-level content more intelligible and prevent dramatic passages from getting too loud."