no sub pre-outs

[obsolete?]

sorry if I don't see the answer in the many discussions on this point - hook-up of subwoofer to receiver without sub-out.

I have Technics SAGX910 - I really like the receiver and see little reason to change except - no line level sub out - the sub I bought (Energy S10) has both active and passive crossovers - but I would of course prefer to use the electronic so that I don't destroy the sound quality out of my JBL L3 speakers; I'm not concerned about needing to adjust sub-volume manually (ie by way of bass management or some other way at the receiver). The receiver has both tape loop; and "bridges" between the pre-amp and amplifier on the back panel.

Help - I'm sure an answer other than ditch the receiver is out there, particularly given the "bridges"

 

[jeanseb]

I think it's time you get a new receiver...

 

[obsolete?]

easy challenge?

I'm really trying to avoid using this as an excuse to trash an otherwise perfectly good receiver; particularly given the the accessible bridge between the pre-amp and amplifier there must be a relatively straightforward technical solution that is apparent to someone with some technical knowledge - or a logical, technical explanation as to why not?

 

[mike c]

energy s10.3? only has an LFE input and speaker level inputs ... no outputs.
http://www.energy-speakers.com/na-en/products/s10-3-specifications/

you can use the sub with the receiver by connecting speaker wire from your receiver to the sub - parallel with your mains. then adjust the lowpass crossover on the sub to match your mains.

(i don't think i understand what you want to happen exactly)

do you want to highpass your mains while using the sub? if yes, the Velodyne SMS-1 can do this line level ... from your receiver preout into the SMS-1; from the SMS-1 output into your receiver amp in. but this would cost you 600 bucks.

i do believe a new receiver or new sub would be option 2 and option 3.

 

[WmAx]

IF you have the bridge pins on the back connectint pre-out and amplifier ins, then the solution is simple.

Buy a Behringer CX-2310 active crossover. You send the pre-out signal to it's inputs, and then you have two output sets from the CX: one for the subwoofer and one for the main speakers ; send the main outs to the amp in on the receiver.

You will need some RCA to XLR and XLR to RCA adapters, or you can solder up your own adapater cables.

The CX has both stereo and mono subwoofer outputs. You will use the CX as your crossover. Set the subwoofer crossover to it's highest frequency setting to effectively bypass it.

-Chris

 

[markw]

You can either do this the easy way, or the hard way.

Your main problem is that the sub only has one line level input. This precludes your using a direct connection from your recsiver. You cannot just "bridge" the right and left channels without ramifications and I doubt you want to only have one channel of bass boing to the sub.

Of course, you can get involved with the hardware that Wmax (above) suggests but another way would be to simply use the speaker level inputs by connecting the sub in parallel with your mains.

Your mains would still be running full range so their sound would not be impaired and the high impedance of the sub would make it virtually invisible to your system.

The sub's high impedance at low frequencies would cut down the strain on your amp and your mains would essentially have a free ride on the bass notes.

IOW, it's like having a big guy in the back seat of a bicycle built for two that only jumps in when going uphill.

 

[WmAx]

Your main problem is that the sub only has one line level input. This precludes your using a direct connection from your recsiver. You cannot just "bridge" the right and left channels without ramifications and I doubt you want to only have one channel of bass boing to the sub.

Of course, you can get involved with the hardware that Wmax (above) suggests but another way would be to simply use the speaker level inputs by connecting the sub in parallel with your mains.

Your mains would still be running full range so their sound would not be impaired and the high impedance of the sub would make it virtually invisible to your system.

The sub's high impedance at low frequencies would cut down the strain on your amp and your mains would essentially have a free ride on the bass notes.

IOW, it's like having a big guy in the back seat of a bicycle built for two that only jumps in when going uphill.

Problem with letting mains run full range with the subs is that this can cause bass interaction/cancellations due to the relative phase of the LF of the mains vs. the subs, and the mains will still strain and as a result have increased distortion on bass heavy/dynamic music program. The active crossover I specified fixes both of these issues.

Plus, once the user starts going to high quality(yes, despite the low price, the unit I recommend is of VERY high quality) outboard line level processing gear like this, it's hard to go back to built in compromised processing in receivers. This device will be expandable to use on very high quality 2 channel systems in the future even if the user upgrades to very high grade gear.

-Chris

 

[markw]

I guess that all depends on how involved he wants to get with this.

My sugggestion costs nothing aside from a pair of inexpensive speaker cables to implement and can be done in a matter of minutes.

Who knows? He may well like it as it is. Many do.

I run my system full range with the sub's crossover, albiet with a line level signal, simply acting as a low pass filter and many. many people are quite impressed with it's sound. But, then again, the maggies are a different speaker and politely roll off around 50 hz or so and simply setting the sub's Xover to take up the slack below that is not a problem.

Although, if the L3's are the ones I'm thinking of, they would probably benefit from a high-pass filter here.
That sub, while fine for HT, doesn't really lend itself well to stereo applications without additional hardware. A wiser choice, IMHO, would have been a sub with at least right and left line level inputs and outputs.

 

[obsolete?]

awesome

this is great guys - thanks - it will take me a bit to digest; and it seems like price (as always) will become a consideration - one thing I was hoping to achieve was limiting the bass frequencies to the L3s; although I have really enjoyed the speakers the 8" driver doesn't quite handle the bass I like at high volumes; I was hoping to effectively create a 3 way system by the addition of the sub - maybe I should be returning the sub for something altogether different - it was a bit of an impulse buy with some other gear I was purchasing.

Also, if the suggested gear is as expensive as suggested maybe I shouldn't have been quite so flippant at the earlier posters response - as much as I like the technics unit maybe it is time to retire it - any further thoughts?

Once again thanks for the discussion - very helpful and interesting; happy holidays.

 

[WmAx]

this is great guys - thanks - it will take me a bit to digest; and it seems like price (as always) will become a consideration - one thing I was hoping to achieve was limiting the bass frequencies to the L3s; although I have really enjoyed the speakers the 8" driver doesn't quite handle the bass I like at high volumes; I was hoping to effectively create a 3 way system by the addition of the sub - maybe I should be returning the sub for something altogether different - it was a bit of an impulse buy with some other gear I was purchasing.

Also, if the suggested gear is as expensive as suggested maybe I shouldn't have been quite so flippant at the earlier posters response - as much as I like the technics unit maybe it is time to retire it - any further thoughts?

Once again thanks for the discussion - very helpful and interesting; happy holidays.

Whatever, man. The hardware xover is $80 new. Plus some adapters. If that's 'expensive'.....

-Chris

 

[T2T]

I'm really trying to avoid using this as an excuse to trash an otherwise perfectly good receiver; particularly given the the accessible bridge between the pre-amp and amplifier there must be a relatively straightforward technical solution that is apparent to someone with some technical knowledge - or a logical, technical explanation as to why not?

Who said you had to trash the receiver? You could donate it - or, even sell it to someone locally who could use it.

 

[obsolete?]

cool

thought I saw $600 ? - at under $100 its a no brainer - thanks again, I'm stoked, and soon to be shaken.