NL4 Neutrik speakon connection confusion

[Reorx]

I recently aquired a JBL Sound Power speaker...spec's below. And I'd like to use it for my center channel. I have a Ashly FTX 2001 Amp...spec's below.
Receiver: Yamaha HTR 5760.

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Sound_Power/sp212-a.pdf
http://www.ashly.com/product/ftx-series.htm

Looking at the spec's of the speaker, it uses 2x NL4 Neutrik Speakon connectors.
My amp is 2 channel, and uses barewire or banana clips.

From what I've read, each NL4 connector can handle 2 inputs...thus the speaker can work with 4 channels at once. My amp is 2 channel...so how should I connect it? Use 2x NL2 connectors and run 1 amp channel to each? Use 1 NL 4 and connect it to the 2 amp channels?

lol will my amp even have enough power to push this speaker?

Reorx

 

[jaxvon]

You should be able to use what you have. However, from what I can see, it looks like those speaker have to be biamped, hence the two speak-on connectors on each. One is for the high frequency transducer with an RMS rating of 100W and the other is for the low frequency transducer with an 800W RMS rating. To biamp, you'll need an electronic crossover. I would feed the high frequencies to your yamaha and use it to drive the horn. Then send the low frequencies to your amp and let it drive the woofers.

I would call up Blue Jeans Cable or Ram Electronics to have them make a speaker cable for you with banana plugs on one end and a Speak-On connector on the other. You can also find Monster products on MusiciansFriend.com that will fit the bill.

 

[Reorx]

So let me see if I got this right.
1 NL4 -> 4 banana (Woofer to amp).
1 NL4 -> 2 banana (tweeters to powered center on receiver)

Since the NL4 = 4 connectors...will 1 of the tweeter channels be missing? or should it just be cabled in parallel? Or...will a NL2 connector be sufficient?

Reorx

 

[jaxvon]

I believe the NL2 is compatible with NL4, but I'm not sure. I'm going to do some research on it when I get home. Just making this last post from work right now.

 

[Reorx]

From a google, I got this website.
http://www.audiopile.net/Technical_Library/speakon_explained.htm

Since there are woofers in this speaker, and they go down to a decent frequency, would this be an acceptible substitute for a HT subwoofer? Or should I get my 15" sub fixed and try to use both subs at once?

lol I can already imagine your answer..."try it out...see how it sounds. Then decide from there."

Reorx

 

[jaxvon]

No, you're DEFINITELY going to need a sub for those JBLs. Seeing how they're made for a PA system, they just don't do low bass. They're made to blast out midbass, midrange and treble frequencies at insane volumes. The -3dB point is 60Hz, the same as many bookshelves. The sub is a must in this case.

Regarding the pair of NL4s on the back of the speakers...

I've worked with some other JBL pro-level speakers and they have the option of being biamped, or can be run with one amp channel. On the model I worked with, you can unscrew the panel in the speaker where the jacks are, change a few jumpers and set it to biamp or normal amp. To simplify things, IF you can do this, set it to work with 1 amp and just use your Ashly.

Heh, I just re-read your post, and I see you're only using one of these. Set up your Ashly amp in a bridged configuration and run it that way. It'll give it plenty of power.

 

[Reorx]

Ok. I just re-read the speaker spec's on the website. It looks like there is a built in passive crossover.

So...let me see if I got the wiring straight. After I set the speaker to single amp use (you were right about the internal jumper):

1. Connect preamp center on receiver to Ashley, bridge the Ashley and use a NL4-4 banana cable to the speaker.
2. Connect receiver sub out to my other amp, then to my passive sub.

Receiver configuration:
Does this JBL speaker need to be configured as a large speaker or is it still a small because of the frequency range?

Reorx

 

[jaxvon]

1. Correct, although I don't think you need 4 bananas. You should be able to just use a 2-banana config. I'd e-mail JBL and ask how the contacts are wired for the NL4 receptacle in the speaker. There are 2+ and 2- contacts, and you should only need one. OR...if it's fine to run both, another option would be to use Canare 4S11 speaker cable and wire it with 1 wire to each contact on the Speak-On connector and 2 wires to each banana plug on the other end.

2. Also correct.

3. Yes, leave your speaker set to small because of its frequency response. Pro speakers, sadly, tend to have crappy low-bass response and really require subwoofers.

 

[Reorx]

I was about to email JBL when I just realized something.
I could have a NL4 cable made using 4 wires, and use 2 banana's. I just need to make sure 1+ 2+, and 1- 2- are grouped to the appropriate banana's.

So it wouldnt matter if only 1- 1+ were being used or both 1's and 2's.

Then on the amp, put a wire between the 2 positive terminals, and plug in banana's to channel 1.

What a headache. Now to find someone to make me the necessary cable.

Thanks Jaxvon for your help. I'll let you know how it goes.

Reorx

ps: Ann Arbor > East Lansing. Go UM whoot!!

 

[jaxvon]

You better believe UM rocks State!

I'd call up Blue Jeans Cable or Ram Electronics. They both do custom work, although I don't know how cheap they'll do it...

Edit: I see you came up with the same idea that I posts...great minds think alike

I also e-mailed Bluejeans to price out a 12 foot cable. If you need more, I'll ask them again, but it's a start.

 

[Reorx]

There is a local company I've dealt with before for work A/V cables. I've called, gave the spec's, and should be getting a return call qwith pricing soon. The cable length I'm looking at is 20'-25'. This speaker is going to be ridiculous when hooked up in my 1200sq ft apartment. Sucks to be my neighbors.

lol I suppose I could make my own cables, as long as I didnt have to solder. But I'm lazy.

I lived in married housing on north campus of Ann Arbor for 6 yrs growing up. Then moved to Midland for 6yrs, then Lansing(for work) for 7 yrs. I have 3 brothers currently enrolled at UM and Eastern. lol memories. The stories I could tell.

 

[Reorx]

Well, I just picked up the speaker.
It's a Sound Power SP222, I had the m/n wrong before.
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/install/snd_pwr/sp222.pdf

On the back, where it shows the NL4 inputs it says:
Input 1:
+- 1: Full Range @ 4ohms
+- 2: N/C

Input 2:
Bi-amp stuff, Not Applicable

With that being said, I think a NL4 connector with only +- 1, using 2 conduets to 2 banana plugs would be sufficient. N/C I think is No Conductor or No Contact...dont know 100% though.

Wow. I am amazed at these spec's.
Dual 2206H 12" LF transducers
2447J 1.5" exit high frequency compression driver
100° x 50° coverage
2-way passive network, switchable to bi-amp mode
2400W continuous program power handling (passive)
4 ohms system impedance
Frequency range (-10 dB): 32Hz to 20kHz
98 dB sensitivity (1W/1m)

hmm my amp only pushs 950W RMS at 4ohm. I hope I'll be able to get some sound out of it.

Reorx

 

[jaxvon]

With a 98dB sensitivity, you'll get all the sound you want out of it. Remember, these kinds of speakers are made to driven hard all day long. They're designed to take massive amounts of power and play at 135dB. Just for reference, that's like, Space Shuttle Launching loud. Your amp has plenty of juice.

Good luck with your setup, hopefully it sounds good at "normal" volumes.

 

[mulester7]

hopefully it sounds good at "normal" volumes.

.....MAJOR goal.....

 

[Reorx]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxvon
hopefully it sounds good at "normal" volumes.

.....MAJOR goal.....mulester7

Yup. I completely agree. At peak my amp pushes 1100W. That's less then 1/2 the RMS the speaker can handle.

I've heard 3 possible sinarios:
1. It'll work fine at normal volumes, but will not be able to use the speaker to it's fullest.
2. The speaker will somewhat work but will draw to much current from the amp, thus overheating it.
3. The speaker will output little to no sound.

Possible solutions to sinario 2 & 3:
1. Hook up my other amp and bi-amp it. it's only 400W RMS bridged at 4ohms. Still probably not enough.
2. Buy a cheap 2channel 1000W+ RMS when bridged at 4ohms, and biamp. ebay =<$300
3. Sell the speaker and buy a reasonable center channel. speaker retails for new at $3600 might be able to get 1/2 of that.

I should have the cable by early next week at the latest. So, i suppose, once I test it, I'll figure out what to do.

 

[miklorsmith]

scenario 4

My edumacated guess is they'll sound like crap at any volume not getting you thrown into jail.

 

[Reorx]

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/lowpower.pdf

It will be interesting. The Summary of the pdf says it all:

JBL loudspeaker systems are efficient, they will produce reasonable colume levels in a room of moderate size with very little amplifier power. However, if a small amplifier must be overdriven to obtain the desired volume levels in a listening room, thus generating high power and distortion levels, the user would be better advised to purchase a larger amplifier capable of producing the required power with negligible distortion. In any case, an amplifier should be selected with an output power rating that is greater then the maximum power that will be used. This margin of reserve power will ensure that the amplifier will not attempt to deliver more power then its design allows. The net result will be distortion-free sound reproduction and virtually unlimited loudspeaker life.

So I need to keep an eye on the volume levels, amplifier, and a ear out for any clipping.

Reorx

----update----
Just spoke with one of our professional installers at work. He has installed JBL pro speakers before and said sinario 1 is what will happen. That usually the minimum to activate the speaker is like 1/10th the speakers RMS. Also, lol he gave me free NL4 and banana connectors. Looks like I'll have things up and running tomorrow night.

 

[Reorx]

I was given a NL4 connector for free (one of the contractors we use at work gave it to me). Made the cable (very easy to do), then ran around looking for a L-pad so I could adjust the volume of this speaker.

Well, the raidio shacks in my area suck a$$.
I ended up having to go to Fry's electronics. 5 different salesmen had no idea what I was talking about. I had to dig through the component section and found L-pads. Then of course, nobody knew how to connect it up, and the instructions sucked. So I looked at instructions in all the L-pads (8W, 15W, 25W, 50W, both stereo and mono), and was able to figure out what C, T, W abbrevations ment.

When I got home, I connected everything up to one of my smaller speakers. Everything worked the 1st try. Connected it to the big speaker and amp, and it would work briefly at low volumes then start clipping. But on the amp it said "protected mode" the clip light wasnt coming on. hmm... Then I wanted to kick myself in the ***. I dbl bridged the amp. There is a button that bridges it, and you can bridge it manually. I had done both. pushed the button off, and it works great.

The speaker sounds excellent, and gets loud. I havent been able to turn it up past 1/5th the L-Pad. The wife started yelling at me, plus it was 11pm, and my usually noisy neighbors were actually being quiet. This afternoon, I'll crank it.

Thanks everybody for your help.

Reorx

 

[Isaiah]

How to make

How can i make NL4 cables out of zip cable 10g?

 

[Isaiah]

How can...

How can I make a NL4 to NL4 speaker cables out of a 10g zip cable?