NHT Classic 3 Speakers - Are They That Good?

F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
While I would tend to ignore anything TAS says completely, I'm sure your speakers are fine. What matters is that they appeal to you in your listening room not to some magazine reviewer in his listening room.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi Adam!
I have tried YPAO but that didn’t fix the problem. Is the Emotiva power as important in the matter of the bright/warm sound as the Yamaha used as PRE/pro?

Thank you !
I don't think you can or should use switching amps as tone controls. Whilst there may be some tube amps out there hat roll off the high end, this is not really the way to go.

If your speakers are bight they are bright. I have heard quote a few NHT speakers over the years and I though every one I have heard was bright and in your face. If you don't like them sell them and get something else. In the mean time roll off the highs with EQ.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi Adam!
I have tried YPAO but that didn’t fix the problem. Is the Emotiva power as important in the matter of the bright/warm sound as the Yamaha used as PRE/pro?

Thank you !
Julio welcome to a new member especially from Brazil. There are some people that can listen to a speaker and find the problem or problems fast. They will do it time and again.

Now thanks to Rickter's post I see what is bugging people about these speakers.

I'll make some general comment first. A good speaker designer builds a good speaker round the sum of well chosen compromises. So lets take a look at the design choices here.

Now bear in mind this speaker is small. Now it is a good idea to minimize the number of crossover points, especially in the midband. What do we have here? Two crossover points at 800Hz and 3.2 KHz. Now there are plenty of good units that can cross over with one crossover point and not two in that size of driver.

Crossover points add driver overlap, with comb filtering, and above all phase and time aberrations. Yes they all do. So rule 1. NO more crossover points than absolutely necessary.

The next issue is related. Avoid putting significant power to a driver out of its pass band, especially at its resonant frequency (Fs of woofers excepted) whether damped or otherwise.

So what do we have here? We have a small 2" metal dome crossed over from the woofer at 800 Hz 12 db per octave. Now if you look at the frequency response curve, the trained eye can pick out that peak from the mid dome driver's resonance. It is around 400 Hz. The driver is only 12 db down at that point. It is not 24 db down until 200 Hz! Remember it is only a 2' dome.

I would be prepared to bet Julio, that your atuned hearing found that resonance like a laser beam. That accounts for the reports of harsh sound in this thread. That is how it would sound to the astute of hearing.


Now I grant you the gap will be filled with ferrofluid which will damp but not remove the resonance. That resonance is in a very critical part of the hearing range, where even small aberrations are unpleasant. Even with ferrofluid damping, driving any dome to the resonance in the critical midband will upset a lot of listeners. It certainly does me. So to not excite the resonance, the driver needs to be 24db down at Fs in my view. I think Julio this is the major problem you object to, and you can't EQ this problem away, as you found out.

Now the enclosure is sealed which is a reasonable choice. However you will see in the frequency response a hump centered around 100 Hz. One of the problems with sealed enclosures is this rise in output before the 12 db per octave slope cut off. This is known as ripple. It is very hard to control and seldom eliminated. The ripple in this design is pretty typical of what can usually be achieved. Some people actually like it, especially in small sealed enclosures as it adds "artificial warmth". I suspect this might account for the "chocolaty" remarks.

So in essence the designer picked a three way design, when there was no need to, and paid the penalty of his decision.
 
J

Julio

Audiophyte
Maybe it's your room acoustics that make the system sound "Bright".

I don't think so, I had different results with Energy C speakers. I mean I spent twice the price on speakers and now I got worse sound. Better bass and mid, but hard highs. What receiver would be a better option, a HK 254 or Pioneer Elite TXH 92, as a pre/processor for Emotiva LPA1 power with the NHT Threes? Witch one would sound warmer?
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Julio, you've had those speakers long enough that I don't think that you'll get use to the "brightness", which initially might have just been a sonic difference that you noticed if your previous speakers were lacking on the high frequency end. So, it seems to be something to correct rather than to get use to. With my NHT experience, I know what you're talking about.

Something to try in addition to the auto setup routines is to manually change the equalizer settings. I don't know which receiver you have at the moment, but at least with my Pioneer 1015, those settings can be changed manually. You could also consider an external equalizer.

If all else fails, you could sell those NHTs and get something that you like better.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I don't think so, I had different results with Energy C speakers. I mean I spent twice the price on speakers and now I got worse sound. Better bass and mid, but hard highs. What receiver would be a better option, a HK 254 or Pioneer Elite TXH 92, as a pre/processor for Emotiva LPA1 power with the NHT Threes? Witch one would sound warmer?
Trying to change the tonal balance of sound by switching amps is voodoo. If you don't like those speakers get something else. Your brightness is actually going to be mid range roughness. The mid dome goes from 800 Hz to 3.2 KHz. So it is covering the range that you would perceive as HF. I would never dream of running ANY 2" dome down to 800 Hz with a 12db/octave slope. I would expect what you are describing.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Witch one would sound warmer?
Receivers aren't going to change the sound enough that you would notice a sonic difference.

Room Acoustics
Speaker Position, & Calibration
Equalizer

IMO these would have the greatest effect on what your hear. Other then the speakers themselves.

And just because a speaker cost twice as much. Does not mean you will like the sound.
 
R-Carpenter

R-Carpenter

Audioholic
Instead of spending money on new amp or receiver, buy a few non inductive resistors such as 12watt Mills or Eagle and start with splicing 1ohm resistor with the tweeter. It may be the combination of speaker-room interaction that makes it sound hard but the resistor may solve all your problems pretty quickly.
 
I

ichigo

Full Audioholic
"3/4" aluminum-dome tweeter and a 2" aluminum-dome midrange, both of which are fluid cooled and have a neodymium magnet structure. The 6 1/2" aluminum-cone woofer..."

From soundstage av. First off...prevalence of aluminum drivers...dear god. I couldn't stand Axiom drivers and sold them within weeks of buying them off Audiogon...way too bright. And the Axiom only had a aluminum midrange with titanium tweeter...this thing is ALL aluminum which of course is the KING OF THE HILL among resonating metals.

Plus soundstage is usually very eager to give some kind of manufactured award for each speaker they review...they didnt even bother this time or even rate it with their usual "star system..."

Also NHT gives you this little piece of foam to put between the tweeter and the midrange...to stop comb filtering. Really this is a mess...

Now I know this comes off as NHT-hating, I love the looks of their products and contemplated buying them (in fact I might still get the Classic 3 center since its so hard to find a good looking 3 way center channel) but god I would never listen to music with them. I have pretty good high frequency hearing and metal drivers (especially midranges) pain me to no end ...beryllium on the other hand is very smooth and could pass off as a soft dome or poly driver (with better frequency extension).
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
"3/4" aluminum-dome tweeter and a 2" aluminum-dome midrange, both of which are fluid cooled and have a neodymium magnet structure. The 6 1/2" aluminum-cone woofer..."

From soundstage av. First off...prevalence of aluminum drivers...dear god. I couldn't stand Axiom drivers and sold them within weeks of buying them off Audiogon...way too bright. And the Axiom only had a aluminum midrange with titanium tweeter...this thing is ALL aluminum which of course is the KING OF THE HILL among resonating metals.

Plus soundstage is usually very eager to give some kind of manufactured award for each speaker they review...they didnt even bother this time or even rate it with their usual "star system..."



Also NHT gives you this little piece of foam to put between the tweeter and the midrange...to stop comb filtering. Really this is a mess...

Now I know this comes off as NHT-hating, I love the looks of their products and contemplated buying them (in fact I might still get the Classic 3 center since its so hard to find a good looking 3 way center channel) but god I would never listen to music with them. I have pretty good high frequency hearing and metal drivers (especially midranges) pain me to no end ...beryllium on the other hand is very smooth and could pass off as a soft dome or poly driver (with better frequency extension).
Its not the aluminum, its how you use it like everything else. It is certainly possible, and there are many metal tweeters where the first resonance is above the auditory range.

There have been good aluminum drivers. The thinner the better. The trouble is designers will make them too thick, and then you get a huge break up mode you have to notch in the crossover.

This driver was very smooth and there was nothing harsh or metallic about it.
 
dorokusai

dorokusai

Full Audioholic
I like NHT loudspeakers even tho' I've never been an Al dome lover. Like TLS stated above, the design can be done right. That may be neither here nor there but I've not heard many aluminum domes that I've wanted to press on but NHT is one that should warrant a nice demo. KEF was the first manufacturer to suprise me in this category. YMMV.

On the flip side, silk is king for me when it comes to domes.

Mark
Polk Audio CS
 
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