Newbie needs some help with updating home theatre

[lithnights]

I am a newbie and need some help!

I just bought a new TV and new TV console unit and now want to redo my home theatre.
I currently have a Pioneer 1015 receiver, Infiniti CC-2 center channel, and Bose 301s as fronts. ..yes Bose.. : ) I have an 8" Acoustic Research S108PS sub. I also have a pair of inexpensive JA Audio cube speakers as my rears.

Most everything but the receiver (2 years old) was bought 12+ years ago. It has served me OK since I am far from an audiophile, but I know I can do better. I have attached a link to show you what I currently have. Hopefully you can view the link.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lithnights/HomeTheatreJuly2010Picasa#

I have done tons of research and read hundreds of posts on this forum. I've learned a lot, but still need some help.

Here are my requirements.
A. I want a better sounding setup than I have but I don't want to spend more than $1500-$2000 or so. I will keep my receiver but all my speakers and sub are candidates for replacement.
B. My wife does not want tower speakers (nor stands like the 301s sit on). Thus the front speakers need to sit next to the TV and the center channel will sit under the TV (where the current center is). There is 8" on each side of the TV. In one picture, the white paper is the size of the Def Tech Mythos Gem. This was to give my wife an idea of the size of them. She said she wouldn't mind bigger fronts than that as long as they aren't "too big".
C. The rears can't be much bigger than what I have (7" tall, 4" wide, 4" deep) due to my wife and since I need to hang them on the wall. There is not enough room for stands.
D. I use the speakers for 75% movie watching, 25% music.
E. The size of the room is 14x20 but it's a vaulted ceiling (15 feet high at peak, 8 feet at low point) and about 3200 cubic feet.

Thus far, I have researched the Definitive Technology line (Mythos Gem, Mythos Gem XL, Pro Monitor 1000) as well as SVS speakers/subs. I like the Def Tech line (e.g. was thinking Mythos Gem XL as front, Mythos 3 or 7 as center, Mythos Gem as rears). I also like the SVS SBS-02 series but the rears appear too big. I am open to pretty much any brand.

So here are my questions...
1. Can you suggest a lineup of fronts, center, sub, and rears based on my needs and budget?
2. I am having trouble finding a 5.1 package because most of the rears included are too big for my needs. e.g. the SVS package. Is it just as OK to build speaker by speaker?
3. Do my rears NEED to be the same brand as my fronts and center? I know it's ideal for fronts and centers to "match" but not sure about rears. I was thinking of just using the rears I have or maybe buying a pair of those small Bose cube speakers. I'm sure these aren't the best, but besides something like the Mythos Gem, it's hard to find small rears.
4. Would I tell a huge difference by replacing my rears? It just seems that such a small amount of sound comes from them (and none when playing stereo). I know this sounds ignorant so feel free to tell me I'm crazy. I just want to make sure the expense of the rears is worth it.

Sorry for the book but I wanted to paint a clear picture of my situation. Hopefully you all can help!

Thanks in advance!

 

[AVRat]

In your case, I’d prefer the DT PM1000/PC2000/PM800 combo over the Mythos Gems. The Gems just require too high a crossover to the sub.

An SVS SCS-02 trio would be great up front and the DT PM800s for surrounds, they don’t need to match.

Either way an SVS PB12-NSD will up the ante for the HT experience.

 

[xego]

This makes for some interesting problems. Sounds like you need some kind of bargaining chip here. Something that your wife wants that she will trade for letting you put together the AV the way it needs to be. Divorce isn't an option because you most certainly wont have money for upgrades after that

The size limitations are well...limiting. What I am concerned about here is the speaker position. With a small set of bookshelves down low next to the tv you are going to have a pretty narrow sweet spot, and your going to have to sit on the floor to hear it. From what you described I think yes, you do need new speakers, I don't think throwing money into new speakers that aren't properly placed (tweeters too low ect.) is really going to give you the experience you want.

I would wait for a day when she is going to be gone for a while and rethink the placement of what you already have to work with. You might be surprised at how good what you have can sound. I recently got a little proactive and started moving mine around. I had the speakers set up the way I thought they should be, I think I looked at a diagram and that was about the extent of my research, and I left them that way for several years. After I got interested and reading more articles here and other places I started experimenting. I moved the sub (that was too far into the corner) and the fronts that weren't toed in (towed?) and too close to the wall, and started trying different settings on the receiver. The difference was astounding and I didn't spend a dime. It would be nice if you had a friend with a great set up or a store with a good demo (best buy sucks) so that your wife could hear what it is your trying to achieve. good luck.

 

[AJinFLA]

A. I want a better sounding setup than I have but I don't want to spend more than $1500-$2000 or so. I will keep my receiver but all my speakers and sub are candidates for replacement.

Sorry if I missed it, but I didn't see how much clearance you have for the center (height).
Frankly, if your current surrounds match your size requirements, keep 'em, they should work just fine that close to the listening seating.
For the front stage, I would suggest (auditioning preferred of course, if possible) maybe some KEF IQ60C and KEF IQ10's for your size requirements (should fit your current stand).
Subs I prefer sealed (x2), but it's hard to go wrong with the brands you mentioned.
Btw, the S-12's can be hidden if you choose. Also, keeping your sub and finding a way to stick it in a rear corner or hide it somewhere won't hurt. The more subs, the merrier .
Best of luck

cheers,

AJ

 

[lithnights]

In your case, I’d prefer the DT PM1000/PC2000/PM800 combo over the Mythos Gems. The Gems just require too high a crossover to the sub.

An SVS SCS-02 trio would be great up front and the DT PM800s for surrounds, they don’t need to match.

Either way an SVS PB12-NSD will up the ante for the HT experience.

I checked out the PM800 speakers, they are a possibility. I like the idea of the SCS-02 trio up front the PM800 speakers as rears.

Boy that SVS PB12 is a monster!! The wife may make me stick with something more like the size of the PB10.

Thanks!

 

[lithnights]

This makes for some interesting problems. Sounds like you need some kind of bargaining chip here. Something that your wife wants that she will trade for letting you put together the AV the way it needs to be. Divorce isn't an option because you most certainly wont have money for upgrades after that

The size limitations are well...limiting. What I am concerned about here is the speaker position. With a small set of bookshelves down low next to the tv you are going to have a pretty narrow sweet spot, and your going to have to sit on the floor to hear it. From what you described I think yes, you do need new speakers, I don't think throwing money into new speakers that aren't properly placed (tweeters too low ect.) is really going to give you the experience you want.

I would wait for a day when she is going to be gone for a while and rethink the placement of what you already have to work with. You might be surprised at how good what you have can sound. I recently got a little proactive and started moving mine around. I had the speakers set up the way I thought they should be, I think I looked at a diagram and that was about the extent of my research, and I left them that way for several years. After I got interested and reading more articles here and other places I started experimenting. I moved the sub (that was too far into the corner) and the fronts that weren't toed in (towed?) and too close to the wall, and started trying different settings on the receiver. The difference was astounding and I didn't spend a dime. It would be nice if you had a friend with a great set up or a store with a good demo (best buy sucks) so that your wife could hear what it is your trying to achieve. good luck.

XEGO,

You make some great points.. first divorce is not a good option and second, I don't want to spend a lot of money on nice speakers and not place them where I will get the best quality out of them. I didn't realize that placing them right next to the TV may dampen my sound experience. I certainly don't want to risk that. Someone had suggested in wall speakers (which was actually my wife's first choice) so that is now an option I am looking at. I also asked my wife about towers and she reluctantly said maybe. Progress!

My initial concern with inwalls was that I'd be sacrificing on sound but that was just my initial thought. I've been told since that they now make great sounding inwall speakers. Agree?

I see what you are saying about rearranging my existing stuff. But I really don't want to just rearrange what I have. I had planned to give/sell my existing stuff to someone who needs some stuff, so I definitely want to buy new.

 

[lithnights]

Sorry if I missed it, but I didn't see how much clearance you have for the center (height).
Frankly, if your current surrounds match your size requirements, keep 'em, they should work just fine that close to the listening seating.
For the front stage, I would suggest (auditioning preferred of course, if possible) maybe some KEF IQ60C and KEF IQ10's for your size requirements (should fit your current stand).
Subs I prefer sealed (x2), but it's hard to go wrong with the brands you mentioned.
Btw, the S-12's can be hidden if you choose. Also, keeping your sub and finding a way to stick it in a rear corner or hide it somewhere won't hurt. The more subs, the merrier .
Best of luck

cheers,

AJ

AJ, the height for that center area is 8". I'll check out the KEF speakers, at first glance they look like a good size.

On another topic, which is really a question for everyone.. I was told that putting the center channel in the console below the tv is not ideal. It's better sitting ON the top of the console or in the wall? Is that a valid concern?

Thanks!

 

[AJinFLA]

AJ, the height for that center area is 8". I'll check out the KEF speakers, at first glance they look like a good size.

On another topic, which is really a question for everyone.. I was told that putting the center channel in the console below the tv is not ideal. It's better sitting ON the top of the console or in the wall? Is that a valid concern?

Thanks!

I figured it was around that from the photo. The KEF's will fit. It isn't ideal to have the center in the console, but with where you are going to place the L&R, it's probably the best spot...if...you have a speaker with directional HF characteristics to minimize (HF) reflections off the console..and some LF adjust-ability. The KEF's have both .
The tweeter is mounted in the throat of the woofer, which controls its dispersion. There is a foam plug for the port (on both center and LR's), mentioned here in a review of a larger model (that uses the identical mid/tweeter) that can be used to adjust the LF rolloff, should you need it for the rear ported center. Couldn't find any measurements of the IQ10's, only purely subjective reviews, but KEF's tend to measure quite well. They should be a step up from what you have, but give them a listen for yourself if you can.

cheers,

AJ

 

[lithnights]

I figured it was around that from the photo. The KEF's will fit. It isn't ideal to have the center in the console, but with where you are going to place the L&R, it's probably the best spot...if...you have a speaker with directional HF characteristics to minimize (HF) reflections off the console..and some LF adjust-ability. The KEF's have both .
The tweeter is mounted in the throat of the woofer, which controls its dispersion. There is a foam plug for the port (on both center and LR's), mentioned here in a review of a larger model (that uses the identical mid/tweeter) that can be used to adjust the LF rolloff, should you need it for the rear ported center. Couldn't find any measurements of the IQ10's, only purely subjective reviews, but KEF's tend to measure quite well. They should be a step up from what you have, but give them a listen for yourself if you can.

cheers,

AJ

Assuming I go with KEFs or something of similar size placed next to the TV and the center in the console, would that give me noticeably worse sound than if I went with inwall speakers spaced properly or with towers/bookshelfs to the left and right of the console?

Like I said, I don't need to do it perfect but I don't want to do it half a$$ if I'm spending a good amount of money.

Thanks!

 

[AJinFLA]

Assuming I go with KEFs.....placed next to the TV and the center in the console, would that give me noticeably worse sound than if I went with inwall speakers spaced properly

No, better sound than inwalls. Speakers of "similar size" to the KEF will rarely have their desirable HF directional characteristics for such placement.

or with towers/bookshelfs to the left and right of the console?

The KEF's are bookshelfs...and can be placed as such.
Towers give you more/lower bass from the main channels, but you are going to have subs to take care of that and integration with such bookshelfs shouldn't be an issue.

cheers,

AJ