Newbie Information

[puredata]

I finally decided to dump my RCA "home theatre" system yesterday and start building something proper. Previously, I have an RCA receiver with Mission center and front mains, and the factory RCA for rears.

I now have Polk RTi10's for the mains, the Mission for a center, and Polk R15's for the rear/surround, running off a Yamaha HTR-5150.

The Yamaha was a receiver I picked up a while ago, and was sitting in my basement, the R15's I got thrown in with the deal for peanuts, and the RTi's I got on a clearance for $1100 CDN/pair - hopefully I did good so far

The dealer I purchased the RTi's from suggested I remove the binding clip and run them bi-wired from my amp. Upon telling them I have the 5150, they suggested I run the top posts (mid/high) from speaker "A" on the amp, and the bottom posts (low end) from speaker "B" on the amp, as that would give my the most power from my amp for these speakers. Was that the correct thing to do?

My main problem is with the speakers appearing too "bright"

Even before removing the binding clip, I found the speakers too bright - almost to the point of being painful at anything above "average" home theatre listening. When playing audio CD's, at a louder volume, I actually thought my ears were going to start bleeding. A lot of this was solved by removing the binding clip, and hooking them up as above, however, I am finding them still too bright.

I am thinking perhaps the 5150 is not powerful enough for these speakers? The point when they start hurting my ears is anything above 11 o'clock on the amp. According to the RTi manual, I should be able to go to an average of 1 o'clock before the amp starts not having enough power for the speakers. What can I do?

I like my TV *loud* but also very clear and defined. I am willing to throw money at it, but want to make sure I am getting the best results for my money as well - as much as I am willing to throw money at it, it does not grow on trees.

Please give me suggestions on wiring, which amps I should be looking at if more power is what I really need, etc.

Was this a good jump up? Did I get an alright deal? Hopefully I'll get better with this as time goes on

 

[AVRat]

A few problems

More than likely your initial problem is the lack of power. The RTi 8/10/12s are power hogs and have an impedance of 4 ohms not 8. They require some decent power to be driven properly. Unfortunately, the 5150 has no pre-outs to simply add an amp. My best suggestion for starters is to consider upgrading your receiver. If you can provide your room size and budget we can provide more recommendations.

BTW, I'm not sure that price on the RTis was the best deal. Ok, but not great.

 

[puredata]

According to Polk Audio's site, this is their MSRP:

1139.95 per pair (US)¹
1499.95 per pair (Canada)

Since the original price was $1299.99 CDN, and I got them for $1100 CDN, I did'nt think this would be too bad. If somebody wants to provide a link to a Canadian dealer offering these for less than $1099.99 CDN, the dealer will refund the difference - I could'nt find one in a quick look, though. Also, if there is something else I should be looking for, they gave me 30 days to try them in-house, and if I don't like them, I just return them without hassle. So if there is a better option for the money, let me know... as the topic implies, I am a newbie at this

As for being 4 Ohms, I did notice a few posts on the site about this. According to the specs, they are 8 Ohms. According to some posts, with the binding clip removed, they are 8 Ohms on the bottom, and 7.x on the top... how are they 4 Ohms?

I was hoping for a reply on how they are hooked up as well (Using both A+B outputs, separately to top + bottom respectively).. was it correct for the dealer to recommend this?

The room these are in is about 12 x 15 and I don't wish to spend anything more than around $3000 on receiver or pre/amp combo as my upper limit. As an ideal, I would like to spend about $1500, but realize this is probably not possible with these units being so power hungry.

Any help appreciated

(Edited for some spelling errors, although there are probably more lol)

 

[markw]

binding clip alters impedance?

...are you sure that they are not simply bi-amp or bi-wire capable? If so, then simply removing that "clip" without having the bi-xx setup correctly implemented will disable either the woofer or the mid/high speakers.

...and this will have a very noticable detrimental effect on the overall sound.

and, here's a hint. Some speakers ARE designed to be on the bright side of things, regardless of whatever is driving them.

 

[puredata]

Update: A few punishing hours today later, the speakers seem to be sounding better. Maybe my ears from lilstening to them loudly, but it really does seem to be making a large difference, including the highs which are not making my ears want to bleed so much anymore

I'm not sure if removing the clip alter imperdance, in a round-about way, that's kinda what I was asking; since the Polk site lists them as 8 Ohm, but others on here say they are 4 Ohm.

Manual says they can be bi-wired or bi-amped. Manual says nothing about bi-wiring to the exact same post, or splitting it between both outputs on an amplifier. On a side note, after reading some more on here, I changed the setting on the amp to send LFE to SUB rather than BOTH and it made a huge difference! Much cleaner sound now, too, IMHO.

As for not having them hooked up will disable one, they are both running - the highs and the lows - so they ARE hooked up, I just don't know if they are hooked up CORRECTLY

 

[Nick250]

As for not having them hooked up will disable one, they are both running - the highs and the lows - so they ARE hooked up, I just don't know if they are hooked up CORRECTLY

Put the clips back in, and send just one set of speaker wires to your speakers. Then they will be properly hooked up. I know, I know, why do they have the clips there if you need not use it. It's there because of marketing. Most other speakers have it so they have to have it too. As for your speakers sounding bright, what you need to undersand is that speakers and room acoustics control what you hear. The receiver has practially nothing to do with it. If you understand this you are on the way to audio enlightenment.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm not sure if removing the clip alter imperdance, in a round-about way, that's kinda what I was asking; since the Polk site lists them as 8 Ohm, but others on here say they are 4 Ohm.

The OTHERS are WRONG. Period, end of story. It is an 8 Ohm speaker.
As Nick mentioned, use the shorting bar and run 1 set of wires. Stop agonizing over this afterwards and just enjoy the sound.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

The OTHERS are WRONG. Period, end of story. It is an 8 Ohm speaker.
As Nick mentioned, use the shorting bar and run 1 set of wires. Stop agonizing over this afterwards and just enjoy the sound.

Whether they are 4 ohm, 8 ohm, or 16 ohm, when you remove the shorting bar (strap), and biamp, the resistance is affected twofold. If you don't believe me, I'll get out my multi-meter and show the non-believers. Unless you own a pair, and have checked them, you do not know. Period. End of story.
These speakers can be bi-amped for better sound (if you do it properly). If you bi-amp, do not run the speakers off the "a" and "b" speaker outputs on the receiver.

You need to run the mids/highs off the receiver, and the lows off a separate power amp. If the separate power amp is powerful enough, keep the straps on and let the power amp run the speakers. Try and find a power amp with gain controls. They're much easier than going to an on screen display and adjusting the volume.

According to some posts, with the binding clip removed, they are 8 Ohms on the bottom, and 7.x on the top.

That is absolutely 100% correct.

 

[AVRat]

For a B&M retailer in Canada the RTis were a good deal.

The most trouble-free way to wire a speaker that is bi-amp/wirable is strapped with a single wire. The audible difference in bi-wiring a speaker is mostly subjective. And there is nothing wrong with the way your salesperson told you to wire the speaker as it still being powered by the same amp in the receiver.

If you still think they are sounding bright, you might try turning the treble down slightly.

As to whether you have enough power, feel the receiver after an extended period listening at the level you like, if it's hot it's not enough. You should also set the fronts to small to relieve some of the stress on the amps and let your sub handle the frequencies under 80 Hz.

 

[puredata]

As to whether you have enough power, feel the receiver after an extended period listening at the level you like, if it's hot it's not enough. You should also set the fronts to small to relieve some of the stress on the amps and let your sub handle the frequencies under 80 Hz.

I did set the speaker setting to 'small' yesterday, and it did help quite a bit. As for the heat of the amplifier, after a half hour or so, the amp is quite hot... not so hot you could fry an egg, but almost... definately hotter than you would want to hold on to for more than a few seconds. I guess I could've answered that for myself, but I wanted another opinion... something to back up why I need to spend more to the significant other... lol...

Changing the topic slightly now then... what amps should I be looking at... what power ranges, etc? As I said, I'd like to spend about $1500 and $3000 would be my high end. I want it to include DTS as well, and support a minimum of 5 speakers. Most bang for my buck? I don't really need 7.1 or 9.1 as I don't yet have the speakers for it, although if there is not much of a price difference, it would be a good buy for future enhancement, I guess.

I want something that is rock solid, and has a lot of video switching.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

You don't need to drop that type of cash...

Changing the topic slightly now then... what amps should I be looking at... what power ranges, etc? As I said, I'd like to spend about $1500 and $3000 would be my high end. I want it to include DTS as well, and support a minimum of 5 speakers. Most bang for my buck? I don't really need 7.1 or 9.1 as I don't yet have the speakers for it, although if there is not much of a price difference, it would be a good buy for future enhancement, I guess.

I want something that is rock solid, and has a lot of video switching.

Get the new Yamaha 2600 receiver, and add a nice two channel used Yamaha (or any known brand) stereo amp to drive your Polks. Amps don't wear out, and the older amps from the 80's are a much better bargain than newer ones (and they seem to offer much larger toroidal transformers and heat sinks). You can pick up a great two channel amp on ebay for under $350 that would embarass todays amps that don't weigh 35lbs. A good 2 channel amp will weigh at least 70lbs (if you're not buying a class d amp). Here's a couple that would fit the bill...

http://cgi.ebay.com/McIntosh-Amplifier-MC2105-105w-X-2_W0QQitemZ5806070917QQcategoryZ71548QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Soundcraftsmen-MA5002-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ5803671285QQcategoryZ39783QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Carver-M-500t-power-amplifier-Carver-amplifier-251wpc_W0QQitemZ5804028230QQcategoryZ71544QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[mtrycrafts]

Whether they are 4 ohm, 8 ohm, or 16 ohm, when you remove the shorting bar (strap), and biamp, the resistance is affected twofold. If you don't believe me, I'll get out my multi-meter and show the non-believers. Unless you own a pair, and have checked them, you do not know. Period. End of story.
These speakers can be bi-amped for better sound (if you do it properly). If you bi-amp, do not run the speakers off the "a" and "b" speaker outputs on the receiver.

You need to run the mids/highs off the receiver, and the lows off a separate power amp. If the separate power amp is powerful enough, keep the straps on and let the power amp run the speakers. Try and find a power amp with gain controls. They're much easier than going to an on screen display and adjusting the volume.
That is absolutely 100% correct.

Nothing to show or measure. It is not a 4 ohm speaker, period, end of story.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

So this means nothing?

Nothing to show or measure. It is not a 4 ohm speaker, period, end of story.

Please explain the following then. What's the difference bridging two 8 ohm speakers as opposed to how these are connected? Are you saying the receiver sees no difference in resistance when I'm running the top only, as opposed to the entire setup strapped? How can that be?

I've emailed Polk on this issue (for the second time).

top:

bottom:

both - strapped:

 

[MacManNM]

Nothing to show or measure. It is not a 4 ohm speaker, period, end of story.

It may not have a 4 ohm Z, but the DCR is 4 ohms. At full range output the required current exceeds the supply ability of most mid-fi receivers. Don't even go into your stupid "insane levels" spiel.