new to the game

[YourDhass]

feels good to join the community! ive been reading and learning, and i hope this question is legitimate enough to warrant a post.

i want to buy a HT system, and want to take advantage of the upcoming black friday/cyber monday deals. my budget will be ~$1000, and am looking for a 2.0 system. my idea is that i wont have to replace the receiver (at least for many years), and the two speakers will eventually move to surrounds in a 7.1 system. when black friday hits, i will have that much money to spend, and i won't be able to put any more money into this little project for some time. but eventually i definitely will complete the package.

the only quality system ive ever listened to were my friend's klipsch reference speakers (he had a 4.1 setup with towers, bookshelves, a hsu sub, and pioneer receiver), and i am totally in love with it. i was pretty much set on buying the klipsch RB-61 bookshelf pair because of that, but after doing some reading on here it seems that maybe i should listen to some other brands (i guess at best buy listening room or something?) before making that decision?

and the other issue is of course which receiver to pick. i bookmarked pages for the pioneer 1123, 1023, 1122, 1022. onkyo tx nr 626, 515, and ht rc 560, 460. harman kardon 1710, 2650. denon E400, 2113CI. other than my newbie bias towards pioneer, the other options ive found are half random, half amateur educated picks. this system will be primarily for music, and films here and there. within the next couple years im going to be moving two or three times so room size isnt something concrete.

i suppose the last question i should ask is, is this basic plan ok to begin with? any help would be super highly appreciated!!

 

[ImcLoud]

Welcome to the forum..

As far as an avr goes, we all have our preferences, I personally don't like spending much because the technology changes very fast, units get outdated, there is a lot in there to fail and they are not known for being built like tanks, no matter what you spend, ect...

So, I would just make a list of features you want, find a brand you like and pick the cheapest model with them features..

for example, say you want networking, air play, and 3d the DENON AVR-1713 5.1ch Networking Receiver w/AirPlay 3D Ready | Accessories4less will do it for a ittle better than a couple hundred bucks.... if you want 7.1 DENON AVR-1712 7.1 A/V Surround Receiver | Accessories4less there are tons of them, I personally don't like 7. systems 5. is plenty and to me the rears pull you from the action, it just seems unnatural and I have heard some very well setup systems, plus not many movies recorded in it, not to mention it costs more and not all rooms can pull off the strict placement it requires...

Now onto speakers if you find an avr for under $300 that leaves you $700 for fronts {I would buy your front 3 all at once, it insures a matching center will be available when you are looking for one}. So for a $700 front end, if you are not too crazy about aesthetics, the ascend cbm170se's for front left and right and the 340se for the center...

As far as sales go, emp tek usually has a good sale and there stuff is solid, I wouldn't use klipsch if they were free and I just had to pay shipping..

 

[tmurnin]

I agree with Imcloud for 95% of what he says. The Denon receivers he's recommending are solid, and I also agree that you will get a lot more for your $$ by focusing on a really good 2 or 5 channel system and not worry about 7 or beyond. The Ascend speakers he's recommending get a lot of solid reviews. One other option are the Intimus line from Aperion.
Bookshelf - Intimus 5B Bookshelf Speaker Pair - Intimus Family - Speakers By Family - Aperion Audio
Center - Intimus 4C Center Channel Speaker - Intimus Family - Speakers By Family - Aperion Audio
These are being discontinued so they're on sale and you can get a good L/R/C for less than $550, including shipping. Add $300 for your receiver and that leaves you enough for the necessary Monoprice cables and speaker wire, and probably ~ $100 that you can start saving for a good subwoofer. The Intimus line get very good reviews, they sound great for the money, they look fantastic, and Aperion has a fantastic policy that gives you free shipping both ways (meaning they will pay for the return shipping if you don't like the speakers) and a trade-in policy where they will allow you to upgrade the speakers within a year should you choose to do that. If you eventually decide to upgrade again, you could easily move the bookshelves to surrounds and step up to the Verus series bookshelves ($699/pr) or either of their tower options.

 

[shadyJ]

For a $1k 2.0 with the intention of upgrading to 7.1, I would get a good receiver for now and a couple of bookshelf speakers. I would get a receiver with Audyssey MultiEQ XT, and I wouldn't worry about getting amazing bookshelf speakers for now, I would just get a pair that I could move to the surround channels when I upgrade. Play the long game for a better system. I would set aside two to three hundred for speakers and the rest for a receiver.

Here are a couple receivers to consider which leaves you a little money for bookshelf speakers: Onkyo TX-NR809, Denon 3313ci (heavy receiver but it does squeeze your budget a bit), Denon AVR-X2000 (lesser amplifier and much less feature rich compared to the 3313, but is easier on your initial budget). The refurbished receivers might work out fine, its hard for me to recommend them personally, the last refurbished thing I bought was a Denon CD player which lasted a whole month and then died on its own.

For the speakers, I would get something inexpensive but which sets the stage for a grander system later on. Here are some examples: EMP Tek E5Bi bookshelf speakers. One their own they are not amazing, but save up and eventually replace them with the far more formidable E55Ti tower speakers. Move the bookshelf speakers to the surround channels, and eventually add the E56Ci center speaker. Somewhere along the line add some big and nasty Rythmik or Hsu subwoofers.

One thing to consider is it isn't really crucial to have the surrounds match the front stage, although you will want to keep all the front stage speakers from a matching set. A fuller and deeper inexpensive bookshelf would be these Behringer 2031p monitors. They will give you a better sound initially and would make for more powerful surround speakers later on. They are 4 ohm speakers though, so I wouldn't want to run them on an entry level receiver, but I sure something like the Denon 3313 or Onkyo 809 would have no problems with them. The are neutrally voiced speakers and as surrounds they should work well with whatever front stage speakers you choose. There are a lot of good choices out there, Klipsch, EMP Tek, KEF, JBL, Ascend, Focal, and so on.

 

[YourDhass]

So Loud says to spend most on speakers, and shady says to spend most on the receiver. I had in mind to go about half and half. what the f to do lol

and, the idea wasn't to focus on a 7 system, the idea was to focus on a 2 channels and a receiver. so that I wouldn't have to replace any of the gear - just build around it. shady is feelin me on that one. deciding whether to stop at 5 speakers or go the whole 7 will be a bridge to cross later I think.

so the pioneer receiver and klipsch speakers are a mediocre idea then? I don't have much time now but later today ill check out the recommended products. also, do you guys have any advice on cyber Monday specific shopping?

 

[zhimbo]

Generally one should spend more on speakers, as they have a greater effect on sound quality than the receiver, but Shady has a specific strategy in mind - getting decent speakers for now that you later use as surrounds. Since they aren't destined to be your main speakers forever, you don't have to go too overboard on quality. That makes a certain amount of sense with a limited budget.

 

[shadyJ]

Ordinarily I would say spend the most on the speakers, but since you intend to expand and upgrade your system, I would do the receiver. Some speakers can get some nice discounts on Black Friday, but many do not. EMP Tek has had good sales in the past. Outlaw Audio has had great sales on their Hsu designed LFM subwoofers. Other speaker companies usually only give small discounts if any at all around then.

 

[zieglj01]

So Loud says to spend most on speakers, and shady says to spend most on the receiver. I had in mind to go about half and half. lol

and, the idea wasn't to focus on a 7 system, the idea was to focus on a 2 channels and a receiver. so that I wouldn't have to replace any of the gear - just build around it. shady is feelin me on that one. deciding whether to stop at 5 speakers or go the whole 7 will be a bridge to cross later I think.

so the pioneer receiver and klipsch speakers are a mediocre idea then? I don't have much time now but later today ill check out the recommended products. also, do you guys have any advice on cyber Monday specific shopping?

I would worry about 7.1 later > 5.1 is a good option to aim for.

Also, Pioneer does make good receivers - a lot of people prefer Denon because they favor Audyssey.
For me, I am part of the few that could care less. However - Denon, Marantz and Yamaha are also
good brands.

Now if you still want a good receiver and still get a $800 speaker deal > then look at the Boston M25
at Crutchfield > Buy one and get one free, Boston makes some nice stuff.
Boston Acoustics M25 Bookshelf speaker at Crutchfield.com

Another nice set of speakers - Monitor Audio RX1
http://www.saturdayaudio.com/

 

[YourDhass]

So spending 200-300 on surround speakers is enough? I feel like that wouldn't get me anywhere.

I really like the looks of that denon x2000. the denon 2313 looks like it has a little more power though, plus 7.2 instead of 7.1. im comparing them to pioneer 1123 and pioneer 1122... is this a good direction? also, I read in one place that Harman Kardon receivers are great for stereo sound but eh for surround. is that true?

so what else is there to look at other than specs and features? like how do you know what equipment is better? does it ultimately come down to personal preference, even with receivers? and if it does then how can I fkn make a decision if ive never heard it lol

sorry for asking so many questions. but yeah I want to learn

 

[YourDhass]

cant forget about the speakers.... WOW the intimus 5b bookshelves are sexy as are the behringer truths (the fact that theyre monitors threw me off, but the description mentions that they have a wide listening range, instead of the typical small focal sweet-spot. good right?) I don't want to be disappointed with the sound though - even though im going to complete the system someday, that realistically probably wont be for a while. besides, I don't want any part of the system to be lacking. like I mentioned in the above post, is 300 for a pair of bookshelves going to be enough? im more than ready to exceed the budget a bit if it will make a solid difference.

friendly reminder, since I will eventually be moving these to surrounds, I don't have to worry about matching them with a center channel.

 

[shadyJ]

Since you aren't going to be finishing the system for awhile, I would advise you to get a subwoofer along with the speakers. That way you'll get a full sound right away. Bookshelf speakers alone can give you a nice sound but not really a full sound. To do that, I would cut back on the receiver and be generous on the subwoofer. I would get the refurbished Denon 1913 and the Behringers to save some money. For a good inexpensive subwoofer I would go for a Hsu VTF2 mk4, $600 shipped currently. That brings your budget to a tad over $1100. If you are willing to spend more than that for a system with some more punch, check out this Hsu Hybrid 3 2.1 package.

 

[YourDhass]

I appreciate all the good advice, good good stuff. I didn't realize subs were so expensive. I think im gonna go for it though. what about the rest of my questions?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would go with a new or open box Denon (not refurbished) for the Audyssey Dynamic EQ for sure.

For example, an open box Denon X2000 for $442 (full factory warranty just like new):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CALM2KS/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1383853467&sr=8-1&keywords=denon+x2000&condition=used

Or open box X1000 for $330 (call Electronics Expo and ask for free shipping, I've done this before).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CALM2JY/ref=sr_1_2_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1383853625&sr=8-2&keywords=denon+x2000&condition=used

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

1) Call Electronics Expo and ask for the X1000 for $330 delivered.
2) NHT has a 15% sale on all speakers. Get 2 of the SuperZero for $51 each, so $100 total.
3) Get a $500-$589 sub from Rythmik, HSU, SVS.

Then later, you can add the NHT bigger speakers for fronts and move the SuperZero to surrounds.

I was happy with the SuperZero + sub as main fronts for 10YR.

 

[YourDhass]

So i've checked out all the bookshelves that my brain can handle, and here is a list ive come up with

Aperion
Intimus 5B $375
Verus Forte $450

Ascend
CBM-170 $300

JBL
Studio 130 $300
Control Monitor $300
ES30 $200

Infinity
Primus 163 $280

EMP Tek
E41 $300

what would you guys pick? all of them have a 30 day home trial so thats pretty cool. these speakers will be paired with the Hsu VTF2 MK4. woo!