New to Home Theater but New to Movies... also general advice is appreciated

[SFE]

Hey everyone, I'm 18 and I've been into home theater on a technical side for a while. Though careful budgeting and buying second hand parts, I've been able to put together a 5.1 system consisting of two Pioneer tower speakers for the front left and right, a used but fairly beefy center channel from Advent, Pioneer Bookshelf Speakers for the surrounds, a Yamaha Subwoofer, and a mid 2011 Sony AV Receiver with 7.2 capabilities and all of the lossless codex (TrueHD, DTS-MA, ect). I used this setup for video games and Laserdiscs, as I don't have a very large movie collection. But recently I moved my front 3 speakers and my sub downstairs to the large 4K TV because my parents were thinking about getting a better sound system (they had a HTIAB before) and I wanted to show them what to expect. That night, I put on Life, a documentary by the BCC, in full 1080p with DTS-MA

Needless to say, I was blown away. The though it wasn't true 4K, I was blown away at the picture quality. The sound was amazing, I really heard the difference of the lossless codex. Even with just a 3.1 setup, the use of discrete audio channels wowed me.

So, I want to watch other movies with that kind of quality. I'm not a big movie guy, I can't even remember the last time I went to a movie theater to watch a film. I do have a growing collection of Laserdiscs, and I enjoy a lot of movies on that format. I prefer Laserdisc over DVD when watching older movies because I think that the film is compromised when it is digitized to fit the DVD format. I can deal with the lower resolution of Laserdisc, but the digital artifact and compression of DVD distracts me. There's also something to be said about the experience of the Laserdisc, putting it in, flipping it over, etc. I do have a Blue-Ray of First Blood Part 2, and this brings me to my next issue.

I don't like how a lot of older movies are "cleaned up" and the audio elements of a film re-mixed to 5.1 when 5.1 wasn't even a thing when those movies came out. I think it compromises the intent of the film maker.

So basically what I'm asking is movie recommendations on Blue-Ray. I don't care how well known the film is, I probably have not seen it. Any movie, any gerne, if it's well mastered on Blue-Ray, I want to check it out. Also, if you know any older films that have been mastered on Blue Ray well, and with the orignal audio intact, I want to know that too.

I'm thinking about upgrading to 7.1 because multiple people share the same couch on date nights/movie nights. Does anyone have anyone to say about the upscaling methods to get 7.1 out of 5.1 or dolby surround?

 

[Mitchibo]

Gravity, Arrival, Madmax. All mastered in 7.1

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Anything by Pixar looks and sounds great. I don’t have a list of movies mastered in 7.1, but IMO, upscaling from 5.1 to 7.1 by way of PLIIx is not very good. My system is 7.3 and if the film I’m watching is in 5.1 I’ll watch in that format. IME, upsampling wrecks the rear soundstage, and turns it into a blob. Ymmv.

 

[pewternhrata]

+1 For pixar, any pixar.
The fifth element, if I remember correctly, the release from 2015 is the one to get.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

+1 For pixar, any pixar.
The fifth element, if I remember correctly, the release from 2015 is the one to get.

Just a quick side note. Is your username in reference to a trans am? NHRA drag racer maybe?

 

[pewternhrata]

Just a quick side note. Is your username in reference to a trans am? NHRA drag racer maybe?

Aside from the ls1 forum I'm on, you are the first to get it. I had a 2001 nhra trans am. Unfortunately I totaled it years ago, clear night highway driving hit black ice, wasn't doing anything stupid. Hit the concrete median car was then facing oncoming traffic, hit head on by an f250, jeep, and cougar. Walked away without a scratch, the car on the other hand was toast.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Aside from the ls1 forum I'm on, you are the first to get it. I had a 2001 nhra trans am. Unfortunately I totaled it years ago, clear night highway driving hit black ice, wasn't doing anything stupid. Hit the concrete median car was then facing oncoming traffic, hit head on by an f250, jeep, and cougar. Walked away without a scratch, the car on the other hand was toast.

Wow. That sux. Glad you made it. Too bad about the car. I have a soft spot for F-bodies(1st gen owner myself). Camaro has always been my first choice, but I always liked how unique ponchos were. In fact my daily driver is a poncho. Damn GM... How fast was that TA?

 

[pewternhrata]

Wow. That sux. Glad you made it. Too bad about the car. I have a soft spot for F-bodies(1st gen owner myself). Camaro has always been my first choice, but I always liked how unique ponchos were. In fact my daily driver is a poncho. Damn GM... How fast was that TA?

Just posted some pics in the steam vent section. Bone stock 12.9 1/4 on street slicks. 4spd auto w/ an upgraded 3.23 rear end from the factory.

 

[yepimonfire]

Anything by Pixar looks and sounds great. I don’t have a list of movies mastered in 7.1, but IMO, upscaling from 5.1 to 7.1 by way of PLIIx is not very good. My system is 7.3 and if the film I’m watching is in 5.1 I’ll watch in that format. IME, upsampling wrecks the rear soundstage, and turns it into a blob. Ymmv.

I’ve always had great results with 5.1-7.1 upmixing.


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[William Lemmerhirt]

I’ve always had great results with 5.1-7.1 upmixing.


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We’ve talked about this in the past. IMO it just doesn’t work. Music can be fun, but IME movie tracks are wrecked.

 

[yepimonfire]

We’ve talked about this in the past. IMO it just doesn’t work. Music can be fun, but IME movie tracks are wrecked.

Wrecked how? Dolby PLII derives rear channels via phase and level differences. If a signal in the surrounds is out of phase with the rest of the content, it goes into the rear. I had a 7.1 setup for a long time and used PLIIx for almost 2 years, and had nothing but good results, never did it wreck the sound stage. You are posting an opinion, not a fact based on objective evidence. I have spent enough time deconstructing the behavior of matrix decoders to understand how they derive their extra channels.

When it comes to mixing for film, the use of pan controls is not the sole solution for image manipulation. Many engineers also employ timing delay in order to appropriately place sounds into the 5.1 space. Ever heard a sound off to the left or right sound like it came from “outside” the front speakers? That’s due to a timing delay applied between the left and right channels in addition to a level delay. Similar techniques are used for surround channel content that would be “behind”.

Same for stuff that would be mixed as overhead sounds. 9x out of 10, the mix will place directly overhead sounds equally across the front and surrounds in a 5.1 mix, and equally across the front and rear surround in a 7.1 mix, often in a diffuse manner by adding several MS delay between the channels to decorellate the sound, Dolby Surround upmixing spatially diffuse sound into the heights, and neural X upmixes sounds into the heights based on front/surround front/rear channel spatial differences, that’s why they work so well.

DSU works much better than PLIIx simply because it is a multi band decoder whereas PLIIx is a broadband decoder. If you do not like matrixed rear channels, that’s your preference, but to assert that it ruins the sound stage as a fact is going a bit far.


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[William Lemmerhirt]

Wrecked how? Dolby PLII derives rear channels via phase and level differences. If a signal in the surrounds is out of phase with the rest of the content, it goes into the rear. I had a 7.1 setup for a long time and used PLIIx for almost 2 years, and had nothing but good results, never did it wreck the sound stage. You are posting an opinion, not a fact based on objective evidence. I have spent enough time deconstructing the behavior of matrix decoders to understand how they derive their extra channels.

When it comes to mixing for film, the use of pan controls is not the sole solution for image manipulation. Many engineers also employ timing delay in order to appropriately place sounds into the 5.1 space. Ever heard a sound off to the left or right sound like it came from “outside” the front speakers? That’s due to a timing delay applied between the left and right channels in addition to a level delay. Similar techniques are used for surround channel content that would be “behind”.

Same for stuff that would be mixed as overhead sounds. 9x out of 10, the mix will place directly overhead sounds equally across the front and surrounds in a 5.1 mix, and equally across the front and rear surround in a 7.1 mix, often in a diffuse manner by adding several MS delay between the channels to decorellate the sound, Dolby Surround upmixing spatially diffuse sound into the heights, and neural X upmixes sounds into the heights based on front/surround front/rear channel spatial differences, that’s why they work so well.

DSU works much better than PLIIx simply because it is a multi band decoder whereas PLIIx is a broadband decoder. If you do not like matrixed rear channels, that’s your preference, but to assert that it ruins the sound stage as a fact is going a bit far.


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Well you’re right about one thing. I am stating my opinion. In my first quote, I actually said “IMO “, “IME”, and “ymmv”. Not sure why you added the Dolby Surround stuff, I do understand it to be much better, and will install mine early next year. I’m only talking about PLIIx, which I do understand, and “IME” have found it to not work. I have done many A/B comparisons(have you) of surround tracks. Almost every single time, PLIIx takes a rear surround image and turns it into a diffusive blob. Have you ever listened to bi/dipole surrounds? It like that, just a fuzzy image. Fwiw, my side surrounds image like crazy and I’m quite amazed by them. Who knows, maybe my decoder has issues(doubt it), or something weird. I will say, my anecdotal reports are not scientific as you pointed out, but the results are repeatable, and have been experienced by other listeners here. If you enjoy it(which you don’t now since moving to Dolby Surround) that’s great. But don’t tell me I’m wrong, because of how the decoder is “supposed” to work. I’m telling you “IME”, and “IMO” it doesn’t. Of course “ymmv”, and obviously has.

You said:
“You are posting an opinion, not a fact based on objective evidence. I have spent enough time deconstructing the behavior of matrix decoders to understand how they derive their extra channels.”
You’re right. I am posting my opinion. How though does this statement reflect any higher level of scientific study or proof of anything. So you deconstructed decoders. Whoop de do. As far as anyone knows it’s as much opinion as anything I said. Except I qualified that. By factually adding I was stating my opinion.