New theater room help

[NicolasKL]

Closing on a new house in about 3 weeks and wanted a little general advice on my first dedicated HT room (just had living room systems until now).

These numbers are based off the floor plan that I've got that they used to compute the sq. footage of the house, and it doesn't have all interior dimensions, so it's not exact, but it's pretty close.

The room is about 18' x 14', but along the back wall there is a small, square closet with a door and to the left of it are shelving units that take up the rest of the wall. So as far as useable space it's about 16' x 14', but as far as acoustics it is probably closer to 18' x 14'? Not sure on that.

I really wanted a place that was big enough to do two rows of theater seating but it seems like you'd really need at least 20' or so long dimension to be able to do that.

Planning on going front PJ, around 110" fixed screen. Already own all the audio (5.1 with Infinity Intermezzo 4.1 towers). Thinking about staying in the X10 price range but may get a wild hair and buy something in the 2000-2500 range. Doubt it though.

Ignore the awesome carpet, it used to be a rental, 10 grand carpet allowance built into the sale price is taking care of that.

 

[NicolasKL]

Now that I think of it, what I really should do is tear out the wall between the family room and the 4th bedroom that it is adjacent to. I don't need the 4th bedroom and that wall is, for some reason, wood paneling which I despise and was planning on sheetrocking anyway. I can tear it out now, have a 24.5' x 17.5' HT room while I live there and when I sell the place just put the wall back in but do it in sheet rock so it isn't hideous.

Hrmm....

 

[AVRat]

That would make for a nice HT, but you'll want to make sure that's not a bearing wall.

 

[jostenmeat]

These numbers are based off the floor plan that I've got that they used to compute the sq. footage of the house, and it doesn't have all interior dimensions, so it's not exact, but it's pretty close.

There's close, and then there's accurate, and for our best chances at advising you well, I'd find the latter. Nevertheless, we can get started, and point #1 I'd like to make is to take your sweet azz time.

The room is about 18' x 14', but along the back wall there is a small, square closet with a door and to the left of it are shelving units that take up the rest of the wall. So as far as useable space it's about 16' x 14', but as far as acoustics it is probably closer to 18' x 14'? Not sure on that.

Yes, but it's not gonna change things much in the grand scheme of things. You'd still want to trap for bass with either set of dimensions, and (I'll get to it in a moment), you'll want to treat the back wall if only due to the rear row's proximity to it.

I really wanted a place that was big enough to do two rows of theater seating but it seems like you'd really need at least 20' or so long dimension to be able to do that.

Planning on going front PJ, around 110" fixed screen.

Point #2, how do you know that 110" is ideal? IOW, the best advice I give on this, and I've done so countless times, is to fire the pic up at the blank wall for at least a few days.

Ok, say you preferred a more immersive experience than the THX rec, at 42 degrees (which is what I have for front row), then say at 9ft viewing distance, you get that with a 95" screen. I chose 9ft, because you should be able to squeeze in another row, perhaps with either the compromise of being against the back wall, or not having recliners, etc. I have about 6ft offset, and so if you did have that extra one foot at 15' length, you could at least have recliners too.

For second row height, some numbers for you, at 16:9 (and if wider AR, then even shorter in height. Play with linked calculator ARs):

110" is 54" tall.
95" is 47" tall.

Assuming 8' tall ceilings, with say 6" margin for frame, etc, using 47" tall screen gives you 43" from floor to bottom of viewable screen at 16:9. So for riser height (assuming 5' offset)... also assuming 36" height of eyes, and 42" height of top of head, without spiky mohawk:

5.5" riser height as the bare minimum. Please go taller, just in case, especially in case front row viewer decides not to recline, and the back row folks want to. I'd say solid one foot.

http://www.theater-calc.com/riser.cgi

Now that I think of it, what I really should do is tear out the wall between the family room and the 4th bedroom that it is adjacent to. I don't need the 4th bedroom and that wall is, for some reason, wood paneling which I despise and was planning on sheetrocking anyway. I can tear it out now, have a 24.5' x 17.5' HT room while I live there and when I sell the place just put the wall back in but do it in sheet rock so it isn't hideous.

Hrmm....

Just so I know that you know of the possibility, I'd like to bring up rear projection. It's an expensive proposition, but at least you know about it. You can view a huge screen with the lights on now.

That little room doesn't have enough length in it (when the PJ is in it) to fire big enough pic. They have these devices with mirrors in them, to blow up the image when limited by throw. I don't know how much they cost, but have been told by my CI friend that they work great.

Then you need to reverse the seating arrangement backwards, and fit in a large piece of glass into the wall. If you could fork out $$$ then I'd try out the Stewart Starglas 60.

With 24.5' length, OTOH, you can even do three rows; limitations are set by desired screen size, aspect ratio, and height of ceiling. Probably too tough with 8' ceiling, but again, dependent on screen size chosen, with AR.

In case that you want to know more about RP, I searched a little, and some links:
I remember this build, think he lives in Finland or Sweden or something:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15705227&postcount=20

Side by side comparison of FP vs RP in a lit room:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15705815&postcount=21

Rear Projection Questions
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1074347

 

[NicolasKL]

There's close, and then there's accurate, and for our best chances at advising you well, I'd find the latter.

Well, none of the dimensions are off more than 6". I would guess that that is not enough to make a serious difference in any recommendations, but I could be wrong.

Yes, but it's not gonna change things much in the grand scheme of things. You'd still want to trap for bass with either set of dimensions, and (I'll get to it in a moment), you'll want to treat the back wall if only due to the rear row's proximity to it.

Like I said, I doubt I'll be able to really get 2 satisfactory rows in in a 14x16 room, so unless I get rid of that center wall and double my HT room, it'll just be a single row. And regardless of what I do, I won't be able to treat the back wall, since it's made of shelving units and closets. Unless I change what is the back wall, and put the screen on the "south" wall.

Point #2, how do you know that 110" is ideal? IOW, the best advice I give on this, and I've done so countless times, is to fire the pic up at the blank wall for at least a few days.

I don't know it's ideal, but based off projector specifications and viewing distance I'd like to know what the best size is before I order things, because I live in Juneau, AK and shipping to here is generally extremely expensive, and it's quite likely that separating the shipping of the PJ and screen will cost me a significant amount. I guess ultimately it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but I'd certainly rather get everything figured out beforehand and order it all at once.

Ok, say you preferred a more immersive experience than the THX rec, at 42 degrees (which is what I have for front row)

That's a good point, and a good way to phrase it IMO, I do generally prefer that, as I watched my 61" RP closer than THX recs and enjoyed it, and feel that my 55" LCD, within THX recs, is a bit small.

then say at 9ft viewing distance, you get that with a 95" screen. I chose 9ft, because you should be able to squeeze in another row, perhaps with either the compromise of being against the back wall, or not having recliners, etc. I have about 6ft offset, and so if you did have that extra one foot at 15' length, you could at least have recliners too.

Regardless of whether I put in two rows, the back row (or only row) will be about 11.5' from the screen. If I did put two rows in, the front would be 6.5" to 7' from the screen. I guess I need to look a little more closely at some actual numbers.

I can't go all the way up against the back wall as I'll need at least minimal access to the closet and shelving that it contains.

For second row height, some numbers for you, at 16:9 (and if wider AR, then even shorter in height. Play with linked calculator ARs):

110" is 54" tall.
95" is 47" tall.

Assuming 8' tall ceilings, with say 6" margin for frame, etc, using 47" tall screen gives you 43" from floor to bottom of viewable screen at 16:9. So for riser height (assuming 5' offset)... also assuming 36" height of eyes, and 42" height of top of head, without spiky mohawk:

5.5" riser height as the bare minimum. Please go taller, just in case, especially in case front row viewer decides not to recline, and the back row folks want to. I'd say solid one foot.

http://www.theater-calc.com/riser.cgi

Ceilings are 8', I don't think I mentioned that in the original post.

Just so I know that you know of the possibility, I'd like to bring up rear projection. It's an expensive proposition, but at least you know about it. You can view a huge screen with the lights on now.

The room doesn't have any windows in it, and I'll have a 55" LCD upstairs, so I don't think there's a real compelling reason to go with RP.

That little room doesn't have enough length in it (when the PJ is in it) to fire big enough pic. They have these devices with mirrors in them, to blow up the image when limited by throw. I don't know how much they cost, but have been told by my CI friend that they work great.

Then you need to reverse the seating arrangement backwards, and fit in a large piece of glass into the wall. If you could fork out $$$ then I'd try out the Stewart Starglas 60.

With 24.5' length, OTOH, you can even do three rows; limitations are set by desired screen size, aspect ratio, and height of ceiling. Probably too tough with 8' ceiling, but again, dependent on screen size chosen, with AR.

In case that you want to know more about RP, I searched a little, and some links:
I remember this build, think he lives in Finland or Sweden or something:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15705227&postcount=20

Side by side comparison of FP vs RP in a lit room:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15705815&postcount=21

Rear Projection Questions
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1074347

Uh, wat? Tell me that you didn't just recommend that the person looking at 1200 dollar PJs should get a 6,000 dollar Stewart screen?

Am I incorrect in thinking that a ~16' throw will do 110" screen with an X10?

 

[jostenmeat]

Well, none of the dimensions are off more than 6". I would guess that that is not enough to make a serious difference in any recommendations, but I could be wrong.

6" is still 6". It is what it is.

Like I said, I doubt I'll be able to really get 2 satisfactory rows in in a 14x16 room, so unless I get rid of that center wall and double my HT room, it'll just be a single row. And regardless of what I do, I won't be able to treat the back wall, since it's made of shelving units and closets. Unless I change what is the back wall, and put the screen on the "south" wall.

Like I've already said, I think you can do it. Again, it will depend on certain compromises, or lack thereof:

-size of screen
-aspect ratio of screen
-willingness to forgo recliners for rear row
-willingness to be close to rear wall

But, now that you've stated you actually need access to the back wall, perhaps not. However, I don't have the clearest idea yet.

Is it possible to do 3-4 seats in front, and 2 seats in the rear. The 2 seats being placed where you can still have access to rear?

I don't know it's ideal, but based off projector specifications and viewing distance I'd like to know what the best size is before I order things, because I live in Juneau, AK and shipping to here is generally extremely expensive, and it's quite likely that separating the shipping of the PJ and screen will cost me a significant amount. I guess ultimately it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but I'd certainly rather get everything figured out beforehand and order it all at once.

This is why I took the time to iterate that you should take your sweet old time. Just get the PJ w/o screen first. A story that I've shared on numerous occasions, just happened this year I believe, is a guy who had "figured it all out in advance". So, he built custom cabinetry into wall, put the screen in, etc. He quickly thereafter realized he greatly desired an even greater display size, and proceeded to rip out all of the custom cabinetry he had built.

The way I look at it: sacrifice three days of having no screen in order to obtain true peace of mind. The costs are identical; just wait a few days to order screen.

Regardless of whether I put in two rows, the back row (or only row) will be about 11.5' from the screen. If I did put two rows in, the front would be 6.5" to 7' from the screen. I guess I need to look a little more closely at some actual numbers.

If 11.5, and it's 17'6" in length, if willing to put up against back wall, you have space even for recliners. No recliners means even more space. So, I ask more specifically: does access to the rear wall have to be over the entire wall, or just that closet space? Two seats can fit?

I mean, whatever, it's just considering the possibility. There is no doubt that one row is a lot easier. And less expensive. Way less calculations.

Uh, wat? Tell me that you didn't just recommend that the person looking at 1200 dollar PJs should get a 6,000 dollar Stewart screen?

No need to get pissy with me. I did say if you had $$$ to fork out. I just mentioned the idea of RP in case you didn't know. After all, you mentioned you might just rip out that wall.

Gee. Whatever happened to "thank you". Heck, I probably did double digit calculations for you. Let alone providing some calculators for future reference, and other links. Sheesh. WTF.

Am I incorrect in thinking that a ~16' throw will do 110" screen with an X10?

Try Projector Central. Or DL the manual. Or go to owner's forum.



Back to the idea of wider AR to more easily accommodate two rows is using a Pana 3000 with programmable lens settings. You'd want to paint the front wall a flat black, at least where the "black bars" would be. Just another idea to consider, but I'll leave that you. Yes, it's 250% more in budget, roughly as new, than $1,200. In case you wanted to ask me the same sort of thing, yes, I know. I don't have access to your account. Just covering the possibilities. Try used for half that price is my guess. Then it'll only be $300 over.

BTW, I didn't know X10 was in reference to a projector. Since that statement came directly after mention of speaker choice, I thought that was a speaker model of some sort.

I'm just trying to cover the options, so don't take offense to things that are meant as helpfulness.

FWIW, a 120" 2.35:1 has the same height as 95" at 16:9.

OK, I see a Pana 3000 sold for $1850 on videogon. None other available at that site, atm.

 

[NicolasKL]

Try Projector Central. Or DL the manual. Or go to owner's forum.

I already did, and the throw seemed to be correct for the screen size, which was why I was confused by your statement:

That little room doesn't have enough length in it (when the PJ is in it) to fire big enough pic.

 

[AVRat]

Am I incorrect in thinking that a ~16' throw will do 110" screen with an X10?

Dang, that's some serious light output as well! InFocus X10.

 

[jostenmeat]

I already did, and the throw seemed to be correct for the screen size, which was why I was confused by your statement:

I meant the "4th bedroom" for PJ location, since that portion of the post was addressing the possibility of RP. It was just an off the cuff idea, particularly because you weren't so fond of that wall, and so it could be used as a positive without tearing anything down. But, that conversation is over due to costs.

From what I remember, the PJ central graphs are on the "safe side" and are not always indicative of the true extent of play at hand. YMMV, but that was the case for my own PJ.

On one hand the X10 is a DLP, which invariably means limited flexibility with zoom, but OTOH it has a manual iris which should be a great boon to you in achieving the desired brightness, given the limitations with placement/throw in relation to screen size.