New System - need advice

[1911]

I have an audio/hi-fi question for those of you with more Hi-Fi experience that I have. First, please forgive my ignorance, as I am relatively new to Hi-Fi - may last new system was purchased ~20 years ago... Second, I am not interested in spending gobs of money on a new system as funds are somewhat limited. Initially, I wanted to get separates, but the cost is what I consider to be outrageous. I first was considering an Arcam system, but the cost is pretty high. After some research, I thought an Anthem MRX510 (with room correction software) and a MCA-20 for additional power to the mains would be a good choice – although still expensive. My speaker system choice would be Focal 826W for the mains and Focal cc, surrounds and sub. I then looked further into Emotiva, which is receiving stellar reviews and, like the Anthem, has room correction software (correct?) I know some audiophiles like to bash Emotiva as mid-fi, but the reviews I have been reading state otherwise – their products are very highly regarded and are at a much more reasonable price point than anything even approaching similar quality/features. I really like Emotiva’s philosophy and if you can overlook their cheesy blue light theme, I think Emotiva may be an excellent choice. I could get an Emotiva XSP-1 Gen 2 Pre Amp and an XPA-2 Gen 2 300W x2 or an XPA-5 Gen 2 200W x5 for nearly $1,500.00 less than the Anthem system and have separates! I could then purchase a great separate tuner (FM, AM, HD, XM) and an Oppo BDP-103 and still have a good chunk of change left over (compared to the Anthem system) to allocate to the Focal speaker system. I was also considering Paradigm speakers or possibly Snell, but Snell is too expensive... I am not adverse to purchasing used components either. I am also not certain if I should get a 5 channel amp or just a 2 channel amp for the mains – I understand that I would need a 5 channel for the speaker suite I have in mind, but I could start with a 2 channel Emotiva for the mains, & when I have additional funds, I could purchase a center channel, sub and surrounds & another Emotiva 3 channel amp. I am also a bit confused regarding 5.1 systems: 2 mains, 2 surrounds, a center channel and a sub = 6 speakers – how does this work on a 5.1 system? Also, when listening to music, does the system automatically revert to 2-channel or would I need a separate “home theater bypass? Also, does the Emotiva XSP-1 have treble, bass and balance controls? Again, please forgive my ignorance - any advice woyld be greatly appreciated. What do you think of Emotiva and my “plan”? Should I be considering other components? In advance, thanks for your advice...

 

[j_garcia]

The ".1" in 5.1 refers to the sub, and since it serves a specific purpose, it is not counted as one of the other speakers.

I have one system for music and movies. If you start focusing on music performance, movies will tend to benefit, so there's less compromise there IMHO. The "system" doesn't now how you want to listen, so you can simply choose to listen to stereo music in stereo, regardless of the type of system you go with. Speakers make the larger difference than the electronics, so find the speakers you love first.

The XSP-1 has what sounds like pretty comprehensive tone controls, but it does not have automatic room correction. Most stereo units do not.

 

[agarwalro]

The x.y convention is representative of the number of discrete audio channels in the setup with, x= number of speakers other than subwoofer and y= number of subwoofers. Today, source content maxes out at 7.1, you will not find any Bluray Disc or streaming media with more than 7.1 discrete audio channels. Mainstream pre-pro and receiver processing maxes at 11.2. Even the flagship receivers or pre-pro cannot extend 5.1 or 7.1 source audio beyond 11 speakers and split the subwoofer channel into two independently managed subwoofer signals.

Any receiver or pre-pro you buy will automatically switch between stereo and home theater mode. Further, most offer configurations that you can set up the default handling of a specific type of source signal. On this front, the Marantz AV8801 is a fantastic flagship pre-pro. Combine it with the XPA2 and XPA5 and your electronics combination is bulletproof, if not overkill.

IMO, a more cost effective option is to get a receiver with all the features you see yourself using and mix in a 3 channel amp for the front three speakers. Since you mentioned going with a 5.1 setup, I can say the Denon X4000 has all the features equivalent to the Marantz AV8801. Pair it with a XPA3 and you have the best of both worlds will leaving maximum budget for speakers. (The XPA3 powers the front three, Left, Right and center, while the Denon will power any additional surrounds speakers.)

You need to fix a set of speakers allocating 60% of your overall budget to the 5.1 set. Then you'll know exactly what kind of pre-pro/receiver + amp combination you need. Using the gear you listed to infer a ballpark budget, you should auction as many brand of speakers possible before finalizing the selection.

What is your budget and what are your listening preferences?

 

[1911]

Agarwalro, Thanks for the information. Based upon my Emotiva "plan" as detailed in my original post above, I was thinking a total budget of around 5K would be my limit. I will not have the $ to purchase all the speakers at once. The mains (left and right) + a center channel speaker will be my initial purchase with the surrounds and the subs added later, as funds allow. Initially, like you suggested, I had thought to purchase an AVR and add an amp. I like your idea of pairing the XPA3 with the front 3 speakers - my concern is that the XPA3 is 200W x3 - does this mean it allocates only 66.66 watts per the three channels and is that enough? Would getting an XPA2 (for the mains) and allowing the AVR to power the center until I can afford the surrounds and the sub and then getting an XPA3 to power the surrounds and the sub be a realistic option? Also, if I did get an XPA2 (for the mains) and later an XPA3 (for the center channel and the surrounds) what would power the sub - would I need to pair an XPA2 with an XPA4??? I am confused regarding your suggestion to pair an XPA2 and XPA5 with an AVR (i.e. the Marantz) as that would give me 7 channels of amplification and I only need 5.1. As far as Marantz is concerned, the cost is definitely out of the ballpark for me and I am not a big fan of Denon, as I have had reliability issues with Denon in the past. At any rate, I'd like to stay away from main-stream stuff, hence the Anthem MRX510 I was considering. I also like the fact that the Anthem has room correction software. What is your opinion of the Anthem and it's room correction software? I have limited ability to audition speakers in my home town as there is really only one high-end audio store in my city. I have auditioned, B&W, Paradigm and Focal as well as a few other "lesser" brands and the Focals blew me away, but honestly, these three are all exceptional speakers - but I really like the Focals. I also have some vintage Snells (which is paired with a vintage Marantz) that are really nice and I would consider a Snell set-up for the right price, but I'm afraid Snell is out of my budget range. As far as listening preferences, I listen to a lot of classic rock, blues, some old-school jazz like Miles Davis, old school country, and some stuff like Sinatra, Aretha etc... Movies: Due to my 4 year old little girl, Frozen seems to always be playing... other than that my movie taste is pretty varied, especially since I am forced to watch the occasional "chick flick" to please my wife. Movie/music is probably a 50/50 split. The reason I was considering the Emovita XSP-1 Pre Amp is b/c it seems like a great deal for under 1K, which is cheaper than any high-end AVR receiver. What is the disadvantage of going with the XSP-1 over an AVR? I was under the impression that one can gain substantial audio benefits from separates - please let me know your thoughts. Thank you again.

 

[j_garcia]

The XPA-3, as you've already stated, is 200x3 meaning each channel is 200W. Even with the speakers discussed, it will be more than enough.

Most subs are active, meaning they have their own amp, so as long as you don't select a passive sub which would be rare today, having an amp for the sub isn't necessary.

The only benefit of separates IMO, is your ability to upgrade the pre/pro without having to upgrade your amp section and the fact that you can choose the amplification level you require/desire. Current receivers are no worse than what you're getting from a decent pre/pro these days.

If you liked the Focals the best, get the Focals.

The disadvantage of going with a stereo preamp is that you will basically be limited to stereo. For a music only system, I'd say that's fine, but if you plan on watching movies and using a sub and room correction then you're looking at a full blown AVR like the Anthem.

 

[1911]

j_garcia, Thank you for the information. The XPA3 would certainly be enough amplification at 200W/channel. I see what you mean about the benefits of an AVR now. Perhaps I will save a bit more and spring for the Anthem MRX510 - any specific thoughts on the Anthem or is there any other similar AVRs in the same price range (~1500.00) I should be considering?

 

[JohnnieB]

Hello 1911, Welcome to the forum. I was really impressed with the Revel F208's. They can be had for the same price as the focals. If you are able to hear a pair, I don't think they will dissapoint. I've never heard the Focals, but they seem to get excellent reviews. I spread out my purchases, due to immediate availability of funds. I went the separates route, and focused on 2 channel for music, and will let the ht come as funds allow. 2 channel, 2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 5.2 will be the progression of things if all goes as planned. I felt this opened up a better budget for music, while not having to skimp on the ht side later. IMO, any receiver in the 1500 price range will meet all your needs for ht. Features, power, quality sound...etc. What I have found in the past, however, is that receivers couldn't deliver the goods for 2 channel music sessions at eviction notice volumes. Admittedly, that was close to 15 years ago. If you don't practice such abuses of your hearing, a receiver should have plenty of power for you. Thats's my two centavos anyway.

 

[1911]

JohnnieB, thanks for the reply. Yes, the Revel F208s appears to be awesome speakers, but I have no way to audition them + they are considerably more expensive than the Focal Chorus 826Ws, which can be had new for around $2,098.00/pair, while the 826Vs are around $1,510.00/pair. The 836Vs are ~ 1,678.00/pair, so the Revel F208s are considerably more expensive - even used. I believe most of the Revel line is beyond my price range. Like you, I plan to spread out my purchases for the same reason, but I don't want to have to replace anything. I will probably start with the Anthem MRX510, an Emotiva XPA2 (300Wx2) and a pair of Focal 826Ws or 836Vs and an Oppo BDP-103. Then I will probably add a Focal center channel, a sub and a pair of surrounds, then an Emotiva XPA3 (200Wx3). At least that is the plan now. Since I just started really looking into Hi-Fi, I am sure that plan will change as I need time to digest all this. I am also considering Proac speakers (if I can find a good deal on used) - any opinion on Proac - or any other suggestions based on my budget? Thanks again...

 

[JohnnieB]

I stand corrected, my apologies, I misread on the Focal price. I basically doubled it thinking this was price each, putting them in the 4000 price range. I added that to 1000 for a receiver left me thinking this was your 5000 mark. Guess I should not post after being up for almost 24 hours. I have not heard Proac so I cannot comment on those. What I was getting at is, how loud do you intend to get with your system? The Focals peak at 250w but don't need near that to produce good sound. 92db sensitivity, 8 ohm will be an easy speaker to drive. Unless you plan on running them at frat party volume levels, you probably don't really need separate amps. The Anthem runs 75 wpc, 5 channels driven. If you went with a preamp/processor, that doesn't have amplifiers built into the same chassis, then you need separate power amps. One last thing, Marantz is Denon. They are both quality receivers, that have been improved over the last several years. Hope this helps clear up any confusion.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Where are you located?

When shopping processors, the key is their room correction, sub EQ, and Dynamic EQ differences. They are NOT all created equal. If you have time, you could try to compare the differences the best you can. Because in direct modes, they all pretty much sound about the same most of the time.

There are also many great sounding speakers that would please many people. Sometimes it comes down to aesthetic and discounts. For example, if you have to pay full MSRP for the Focal vs. 30% off for the Revel (or vice versa) and they both sound equally great to you, which would you buy?

"Separates" are NOT necessarily better just because they are "separates". In direct modes, separates will most likely sound just like AVRs. The difference again is in their Room Correction, Subwoofer EQ, and Dynamic EQ.

 

[agarwalro]

Would you buy speakers from an internet direct company? I'm asking since there's not many options at your dealer and just like the Emotiva for amps, there are several speaker/subwoofer companies too.

 

[1911]

JohnnyB, I do not listen to music at sustained high volumes. Occasionally, I will crank up the volume, but not too often as everyone would have to be out of the house. Movies will probably be listened to at a level similar to the theater, which can be fairly loud. I understand that a receiver, such as the Anthem MRX510, with room correction, would have enough power on it's own to power a 5.1 speaker system and that I don't really "need" an amp (or amps) to have a good system, but as we all know, it's lots of fun to have extra toys to play with. Perhaps it makes more sense to purchase the Anthem, speakers and an Oppo first and then add an Emotiva XPA-5 (200Wx5) at a later date, just to have it and the extra power. I also think that the pre amp/processor route will be too expensive for me. I am not ruling out Marantz or Denon and I understand these units have more features in terms of streaming, internet connectivity, etc... But I'm not sure if I need all this - it seems like more to possibly go wrong and I prefer to keep things at least somewhat simple...

AcuDefTechGuy, I am located in El Paso, TX. There is an audio store here called Soundquest, which carries McIntosh, Rotel, Anthem, Paradigm, B&W, etc... and I have auditioned the Anthem, which I like quite a bit. They do not carry ARCAM, but I think there may be a store in EP that does... I also think the price of the Anthem is much more reasonable when compared to a high-end Marantz or Denon. I was also considering an ARCAM AVR - such as the AVR-450, but it is considerably more expensive and I don't believe that the ARCAM has room correction available. Any other AVRs w/ room correction I should be considering? I believe I'd like to stay away from Japanese stuff - if only due to pre conceived notions and past bad experiences. I believe or British or Canadian components are more to my liking - something not quite so "mass market" or "mainstream." As far as speakers are concerned, you are correct, I would probably choose the Revels if they were 30% off retail. I would also consider used speakers as well, as long as they were in great condition. I do travel to Dallas occasionally, so I would have the ability to audition other speakers the next time I am there...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AcuDefTechGuy, I am located in El Paso, TX. There is an audio store here called Soundquest, which carries McIntosh, Rotel, Anthem, Paradigm, B&W, etc... and I have auditioned the Anthem, which I like quite a bit. They do not carry ARCAM, but I think there may be a store in EP that does... I also think the price of the Anthem is much more reasonable when compared to a high-end Marantz or Denon. I was also considering an ARCAM AVR - such as the AVR-450, but it is considerably more expensive and I don't believe that the ARCAM has room correction available. Any other AVRs w/ room correction I should be considering? I believe I'd like to stay away from Japanese stuff - if only due to pre conceived notions and past bad experiences. I believe or British or Canadian components are more to my liking - something not quite so "mass market" or "mainstream." As far as speakers are concerned, you are correct, I would probably choose the Revels if they were 30% off retail. I would also consider used speakers as well, as long as they were in great condition. I do travel to Dallas occasionally, so I would have the ability to audition other speakers the next time I am there...

You know that Anthem and ARCAM AVRs are made in China, right?

Pretty much all AVRs under $2K MSRP are made in China these days regardless of brand.

As far as nice speaker discounts, Revel, KEF, RBH would be my choices.

For AVR discounts--- Denon, Marantz, Yamaha.

Does your dealer offer discounts on Anthem?

 

[j_garcia]

Oppo is made in China too; they're a Chinese company. I've owned models from them for many years; no complaints.

 

[1911]

AucDefTechGuy, I tried to send you a PM. Please let me know if you did not receive it. Thank you.

 

[1911]

agarwalro, Yes, I would purchase speakers and equipment from an Internet Direct Company.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The "best" deal I've seen is the Denon 4311, which was originally $2,200, but then was sold for $1200 by Electronics Expo (maybe some dealers still have stock). For $1200, that has got to be the least expensive AVR/processor that is NOT made in China.

I don't know of any AVR/pre-pro that is made in Canada or Europe, at least not under $2K.

The new $2K EMO pre-pro may be assembled in the USA, but are all the parts made in China?

And will there be new and old bugs with the EMO pre-pro?

And if I had a choice between the ATI AT1805 for $1300 (discounts, new) vs EMO XPA-5 for $1K, I would take the AT1805 100% of the time.

Which leads to the question of whether ID companies are better values. I think ID companies can be better values unless you can get 40-50% off on big brand names.

 

[1911]

AcuDefTechGuy, Regarding the new Emotiva XMC-1, their website simply states: "Made in the USA - The XMC-1 is the first product made in our all-new Nashville, Tennessee Production Center, which allows us exceptional control over every facet of the design and production process for ultimate quality." They do not mention the origin of the parts/components, which, like you said, is probably China. Trying to live one's life without purchasing Chinese products is an exceedingly difficult endeavor. Regarding the ATI 1850 - duly noted...

 

[PENG]

j_garcia, Thank you for the information. The XPA3 would certainly be enough amplification at 200W/channel. I see what you mean about the benefits of an AVR now. Perhaps I will save a bit more and spring for the Anthem MRX510 - any specific thoughts on the Anthem or is there any other similar AVRs in the same price range (~1500.00) I should be considering?

Anthem does not sell as many units as Denon/Marantz so naturally their production cost would be higher, i.e. potentially you will pay more for less. As for room EQ, lots of people rave about their performance but I am skeptical because like speakers preference, it is a highly subjective thing. I tend to put more weight in facts and figures such as the corrected response graphs. Base on that, one could probably see that Anthem is more fun because you can plot the graphs and see the results. With Audyssey you need to pay for the pro software in order to do the same. The Denon X4000 and the 4311 suggested by others, do come with the Audyssey XT32 that included sub eq and DEQ. XT32 offers much higher resolution than the previous version XT so it is possible that it is as good or better than Anthem's but it is hard to know without a properly conducted comparison test by 3rd parties. I can tell you that DEQ is really good to have. I use it most of the time now, even for serious music listening.

Denon X4000 comes with a 3 year warranty. I have owned quite a few of their AVRs over the years with 0 problem. I believe for the 826W, it is not a bad idea to drive them with the XPA2 gen 2 instead of the XPA3. They have good sensitivity, with nominal impedance of 8 ohm but do dip to 2.9 ohm so more power on hand won't hurt. The X4000 should have no trouble driving your other 3 speakers with ease. Don't get me wrong, Anthem makes quality products, and I love my MCA20. My point is that if you want to get the maximum bang for the buck, you can do better with Denon, Marantz or Yamaha. As for sound quality, the Anthem is not going to sound better base on lab measurements I have seen so far. I have recently compare my old Denon 3805 with my separate system that cost much more and the difference is very subtle. My MCA20 in my HT setup does not improve sound quality, it just provides a little more headroom for my L/R channels.

 

[1911]

PING, Thanks for the info. I understand that economies of scale will give the consumer more features for less $. I would consider a Denon - possibly an AVR-4311C1, or possibly a Yamaha, but I sure do like the Anthem MRX 510. I have time to decide so I will continue to research... I have also been told that an ATI 1805 would be a good choice, so I plan to investigate this as well. I like the fact that the ATI is American made as well. I believe the MCA 20 is out of my price range.