New Sealed Sub- Help Please

[Openupshop]

Hello,

I'd appreciate some help on this...

Long story short I ended up with a new 4ohm Episode Evolution 300 (12 inch) Sealed Subwoofer, still in box, in pristine condition... one of those that dealers install, not normally available for purchase by general public.

Anyhow, I connect. It powers on & Auto sensing led comes on but no sound.

Next I check impedance a few times & I get either a 3.9 or 4.0 on the multimeter. However, when I'm taking the readings, if I (even gently) tap, touch or push on the cone or dust cover, the readings for impedance (and continuity) on multimeter drop to all zeroes instantly.

This means there is a short, correct?

Some videos I watched & other forum posts said this is indicative of a short. Any thoughts on how I can attempt a fix? Also I've unscrewed everything I can on it & it doesn't seem like I can get to the coil without damaging the cone, dust cover, etc. Any ideas??

Thank you & truly appreciate any help or thoughts on this...

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello,

I'd appreciate some help on this...

Long story short I ended up with a new 4ohm Episode Evolution 300 (12 inch) Sealed Subwoofer, still in box, in pristine condition... one of those that dealers install, not normally available for purchase by general public.

Anyhow, I connect. It powers on & Auto sensing led comes on but no sound.

Next I check impedance a few times & I get either a 3.9 or 4.0 on the multimeter. However, when I'm taking the readings, if I (even gently) tap, touch or push on the cone or dust cover, the readings for impedance (and continuity) on multimeter drop to all zeroes instantly.

This means there is a short, correct?

Some videos I watched & other forum posts said this is indicative of a short. Any thoughts on how I can attempt a fix? Also I've unscrewed everything I can on it & it doesn't seem like I can get to the coil without damaging the cone, dust cover, etc. Any ideas??

Thank you & truly appreciate any help or thoughts on this...

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I suspect the driver is fine. When you press on the cone a voltage will be generated at the terminals which will upset the meter.

Connect a 1.5 volt battery to the speaker terminals, if the cone moves in and out as you disconnect and connect the battery, the driver is fine.

If the amp is detecting the input, but you get no sound, then I suspect the plate amp is bad. Subwoofer plate amps are notorious for failure.

What are you connecting this sub to? In other words, what is driving it?

If you start unscrewing things on the driver you will ruin it. Driver failures are rare, plate amp failures common.

A driver if it did have trouble with the VC, then the repair is complete cone replacement with VC surround and dust cap. Speaker glue and factory shims to center the voice coil are mandatory. If you keep abusing the driver, then that will be required. Do the battery test, and if it passes, reinstall it and turn your attention to the amp.
If the amp is no good, that is bad news as generally those plate amps are not serviceable.

 

[Openupshop]

I suspect the driver is fine. When you press on the cone a voltage will be generated at the terminals which will upset the meter.

Connect a 1.5 volt battery to the speaker terminals, if the cone moves in and out as you disconnect and connect the battery, the driver is fine.

If the amp is detecting the input, but you get no sound, then I suspect the plate amp is bad. Subwoofer plate amps are notorious for failure.

What are you connecting this sub to? In other words, what is driving it?

If you start unscrewing things on the driver you will ruin it. Driver failures are rare, plate amp failures common.

A driver if it did have trouble with the VC, then the repair is complete cone replacement with VC surround and dust cap. Speaker glue and factory shims to center the voice coil are mandatory. If you keep abusing the driver, then that will be required. Do the battery test, and if it passes, reinstall it and turn your attention to the amp.
If the amp is no good, that is bad news as generally those plate amps are not serviceable.

Thank you so much TLS Guy, I believe you may have saved me from unnecessarily damaging the driver. Some posts on other forums & particularly because of This video at the 2:05 mark made me think pushing down on the cone indicating a possible a short.

However, I just tried the same thing with a small speaker I have & reading on it also go to zero so you were spot on about the generated voltage upsetting the readings.

And sorry I had forgotten to mention previously... I had already done the battery test and the cone moves up & down perfectly. To answer your question, I have a 5.1.2 HT but my receiver can take another sub, so I was hoping to get to a 5.2.2.

My other sub that is working is a Def Tech 10" powerfield Sub (not a sealed sub like this one). Can I use the amp on that to check definitively if its the driver or amp on the bad one? I am new to all this, so if it does turn out to be the Amp for sure & you said its not serviceable, do I just chuck all of it in the trash...?? I checked & this was roughly a $750 Subwoofer new (used ones on ebay are roughly $350), so pricier than my Def Tech sub. The watts on my Def Tech Sub are listed as 700, and I believe this one is same thing, could I install the def tech amp on this Sub or are there other specs to consider?

Thank you again, truly appreciate all the detailed info you provided. If nothing else, I learned a ton from your post.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you so much TLS Guy, I believe you may have saved me from unnecessarily damaging the driver. Some posts on other forums & particularly because of This video at the 2:05 mark made me think pushing down on the cone indicating a possible a short.

However, I just tried the same thing with a small speaker I have & reading on it also go to zero so you were spot on about the generated voltage upsetting the readings.

And sorry I had forgotten to mention previously... I had already done the battery test and the cone moves up & down perfectly. To answer your question, I have a 5.1.2 HT but my receiver can take another sub, so I was hoping to get to a 5.2.2.

My other sub that is working is a Def Tech 10" powerfield Sub (not a sealed sub like this one). Can I use the amp on that to check definitively if its the driver or amp on the bad one? I am new to all this, so if it does turn out to be the Amp for sure & you said its not serviceable, do I just chuck all of it in the trash...?? I checked & this was roughly a $750 Subwoofer new (used ones on ebay are roughly $350), so pricier than my Def Tech sub. The watts on my Def Tech Sub are listed as 700, and I believe this one is same thing, could I install the def tech amp on this Sub or are there other specs to consider?

Thank you again, truly appreciate all the detailed info you provided. If nothing else, I learned a ton from your post.

I can tell you for 100% certain that your driver is OK. Do not mess around and risk damaging gear. If one sub works off that cable and output, and this new one does not, I can tell you for certain the amp is bad and needs to be replaced.

We do try here to give correct information, and forcefully confront and correct BS. We do have a selection of very experienced members here.

 

[Openupshop]

I can tell you for 100% certain that your driver is OK. Do not mess around and risk damaging gear. If one sub works off that cable and output, and this new one does not, I can tell you for certain the amp is bad and needs to be replaced.

We do try here to give correct information, and forcefully confront and correct BS. We do have a selection of very experienced members here.

Got you, what you are saying makes perfect sense about it being the amp for sure.

Sorry, so is it worth buying a new amp, or just chucking the whole thing and getting a new Sub altogether? I am asking because I see nice 10" Klipsch subs on Amazon for less than $200 & while this originally retailed for $750 & is a 12", would it be worth getting the amp replaced or just buying a new unit altogether in your opinion??
Thank you again, much appreciated.

 

[TLS Guy]

Got you, what you are saying makes perfect sense about it being the amp for sure.

Sorry, so is it worth buying a new amp, or just chucking the whole thing and getting a new Sub altogether? I am asking because I see nice 10" Klipsch subs on Amazon for less than $200 & while this originally retailed for $750 & is a 12", would it be worth getting the amp replaced or just buying a new unit altogether in your opinion??
Thank you again, much appreciated.

That is hard for me to know. I have never heard of that sub before. In addition I don't use commercially made speakers. All my speakers are my own design and build.
I would make the comment, that since it is a sealed sub, the plate amp will have equalization specific to that driver and enclosure. Sealed subs start cutting the low frequencies above sub range, and the amps have to add Eq to boost the low end, but also at a certain point cut the low frequencies off to avoid driver over excursion and damage. So for that sub you need an exact replacement amp. If you can not find one, then that sub is useless, unless you have measuring equipment and design skills.
No offence, but I can tell you don't.
On the plus side that looks like a sub driver of decent quality. However the old adage "All that glistens is not cold". applies here. So caution is in order.

I would not recommend that 10" Klipsch sub, that will not do you much good.

In general ported subs are a better bang for the buck, as they say, because they are more efficient and easier to drive, by and large.

 

[Eppie]

Thank you so much TLS Guy, I believe you may have saved me from unnecessarily damaging the driver. Some posts on other forums & particularly because of This video at the 2:05 mark made me think pushing down on the cone indicating a possible a short.

However, I just tried the same thing with a small speaker I have & reading on it also go to zero so you were spot on about the generated voltage upsetting the readings.

And sorry I had forgotten to mention previously... I had already done the battery test and the cone moves up & down perfectly. To answer your question, I have a 5.1.2 HT but my receiver can take another sub, so I was hoping to get to a 5.2.2.

My other sub that is working is a Def Tech 10" powerfield Sub (not a sealed sub like this one). Can I use the amp on that to check definitively if its the driver or amp on the bad one? I am new to all this, so if it does turn out to be the Amp for sure & you said its not serviceable, do I just chuck all of it in the trash...?? I checked & this was roughly a $750 Subwoofer new (used ones on ebay are roughly $350), so pricier than my Def Tech sub. The watts on my Def Tech Sub are listed as 700, and I believe this one is same thing, could I install the def tech amp on this Sub or are there other specs to consider?

Thank you again, truly appreciate all the detailed info you provided. If nothing else, I learned a ton from your post.

The specs on your 300 can be found here.
How was the sub connected to the AVR? Did you try replacing the Def Tech to ensure that you had a proper audio signal feeding the sub? If you switch the Episode from Auto to On you can plug an RCA cable into the LFE input and touch the bare pin on the other end of the cable. If the amp is working you should hear a buzz or hum when you touch the pin.

You could replace the plate amp with one from Parts Express but as TLS Guy mentioned, the circuitry is usually tuned to the specific speaker being used, so a replacement amp will not give the same response as the factory one. You could also try visiting https://www.episodespeakers.com/contact.html and ask if a replacement amp is available.

 

[Openupshop]

That is hard for me to know. I have never heard of that sub before. In addition I don't use commercially made speakers. All my speakers are my own design and build.
I would make the comment, that since it is a sealed sub, the plate amp will have equalization specific to that driver and enclosure. Sealed subs start cutting the low frequencies above sub range, and the amps have to add Eq to boost the low end, but also at a certain point cut the low frequencies off to avoid driver over excursion and damage. So for that sub you need an exact replacement amp. If you can not find one, then that sub is useless, unless you have measuring equipment and design skills.
No offence, but I can tell you don't.
On the plus side that looks like a sub driver of decent quality. However the old adage "All that glistens is not cold". applies here. So caution is in order.

I would not recommend that 10" Klipsch sub, that will not do you much good.

In general ported subs are a better bang for the buck, as they say, because they are more efficient and easier to drive, by and large.

Lol, you are def right about me not having equipment to test it. So I got everything you were saying except I got lost at "on the Plus side that looks like a sub driver of decent quality." But since I doubt I'll find an exact replacement amp, isn't it all garbage including the driver, so what plus side??

Also, in respect to the Klipsch, I meant throwing this whole thing out & getting one, any reason why it wouldn't do me much good as a sub? Thank you again, a million times.

 

[Openupshop]

The specs on your 300 can be found here.
How was the sub connected to the AVR? Did you try replacing the Def Tech to ensure that you had a proper audio signal feeding the sub? If you switch the Episode from Auto to On you can plug an RCA cable into the LFE input and touch the bare pin on the other end of the cable. If the amp is working you should hear a buzz or hum when you touch the pin.

You could replace the plate amp with one from Parts Express but as TLS Guy mentioned, the circuitry is usually tuned to the specific speaker being used, so a replacement amp will not give the same response as the factory one. You could also try visiting https://www.episodespeakers.com/contact.html and ask if a replacement amp is available.

Thank you for the input Eppie. I tried both ways with the AVR, as a second sub since my AVR has two spots for subs. And also by completely disconnecting the Def Tech and putting the Episode Evo in place of it.
The RCA cable check was one of the first things I tried, as I had learned from my Def Tech which easily gives you an audible buzz when touching the other end of RCA connected to the LFE.

The light is red when i turn it on, then switching to Auto it turns blue and stays blue for on so even that seems fine, but obviously something is gone wrong.

Thanks you for the link. I had actually checked their site info already but was saving contacting them for a last step...my luck they won't have an replacement amp, this is an older no longer carried model too.

Thank you again for all your input, much appreciate it.

 

[lovinthehd]

You can do better than either sub in any case....but plate amps or external amps (rack style pro amps for example) are possibilities, might look around at parts-express.com for example, but having some eq for a sealed sub would be a good plan. I'd go sub shopping myself....

 

[TLS Guy]

Lol, you are def right about me not having equipment to test it. So I got everything you were saying except I got lost at "on the Plus side that looks like a sub driver of decent quality." But since I doubt I'll find an exact replacement amp, isn't it all garbage including the driver, so what plus side??

Also, in respect to the Klipsch, I meant throwing this whole thing out & getting one, any reason why it wouldn't do me much good as a sub? Thank you again, a million times.

I have been on the episode site. It looks to me as if that outfit is pretty close to being purveyors of "white van" speakers. The turnover frequency is 50 Hz. It does have Eq which is switched. This marginally slows the drop off in the LF response. Quite honestly many bookshelf speakers have a better bass response than that sub.

So it is not worth putting another cent in.

That Klipsch sub is actually better, but does not go very deep. I know we have had member here complain they just "fart" when there is appreciable bass demands. That sub is also now discontinued.

If you want a cheap sub, that is not total rubbish, then take a look at this Dayton Audio.

A decent sub is significant money. This HSU sub buys you are quality product without breaking the bank. Currently it is back ordered.

Remember the most expensive products you buy are the junk products.

 

[Openupshop]

Thanks guys... I am certain every single Sub (along with all other HT speakers) you guys have are all way out of my price range or as in the case of TLS Guy, way outside my price range and build expertise. That's why I mentioned the Klipsch's on amazon. But the Dayton TLS Guy just mentioned is really cheap.

(Please don't kill me for the 2 huge audio sins of 1. All speakers not being of the same line 2. Surrounds also being floor standing speakers)... But this all started as I wanted to add a second sub to my Frankenstein setup of 2 floor standing Klipsch RF-3's as front R/L, A Def Tech Pro Center 1000 as Center, 2 Def Tech BP-8's as surrounds, & 2 Def Tech Pro 100's as Front Heights and the Def Tech Powerfield Sub.

Except for the heights which sometimes seem indiscernible, this Frankenstein setup has, so far, has actually sounded amazing to me with movies, which is all I use it for.

Sucks that I have to throw out a sub that's in pristine condition, but from what you guys pointed out, my best option is just getting a new sub, the Dayton, TLS Guy noted or if I can pull it off, the HSU sub. TY TY TY, you guys are great, I learned a ton .

 

[lovinthehd]

Which DefTech Powerfield sub do you have? IIRC that's better than most of their newer stuff. I'd prefer the Dayton (and look at the SUB1500 too) over the Klipsch; only Klipsch series I'd consider if the discount were deep enough would be their R-112/115SW models (or the renamed versions SPL-120/150.....Klipsch has many similar sounding name models to make things a bit confusing over time, too). The Hsu mentioned would be better, tho.

If I can build subs, tho, you can too As long as you don't charge yourself for labor and are comfortable with finishing skills, that can be a good way to go, too (especially for duals as you can get one amp to power both).

 

[Trebdp83]

Have two Dayton Audio SUB1200 subwoofers. Better bang for buck and space saving compared to SUB1500. Price just slightly more now than the $149.99 from just a few months ago but still a bargain.