new member, of course I have problems

[bellringer]

Hello, New to the forum.

I have hooked up a few simple AV systems in my home but this is a new beast. My aunt had gifted me a Yamaha A3090, Bose 901 iv speakers w/ EQ, Bose 901 towers and a Klipcsh center channel. I am using a Panasonic 52" TV with optical audio output for the amp. I cannot seem to get any audio from the speakers. I have tried them in the main and front output. For the main I am planning on using the 901 w/ the EQ and the 501 for the fronts. I have used the jumper block for the mains and can get only very low audio from the mains, turn the volume all the way up and they barely work.

What am I doing wrong here? I really only want to use the amp as a stereo basically and not for the full DSP it is capable. Anyone have any tips to help?

Thanks,
-Bellringer

 

[adk highlander]

It has been a long time since I have worked with those 901's. The EQ has to go through the tape out or something. How do you have the EQ, speakers etc. connected to the receiver?

 

[bellringer]

Yes I do. It is from the pre out to the tape in, or something along those lines. At work now so I dont have the system in front of me. Mainly just dont understand why there is no sound coming from the front channels. IDK I figured they of all things should be easy and good to go. Guess I was wrong...

 

[markw]

That "pre-out" and "tape in" are apparantly unrelated to each other. Simply having both is no guarantee that they will allow the insertion of an external device into the circuit path, which is what you need.

To insert an equalizer or similar in-line processing device, one needs to insert it somewhere in the circuit path. You must break the circuit, send the signal out to the device, and then return it into the circuit exactly where it left it.

This is generally done with a tape monitor loop circuit, which is activated by a “Tape Monitor” switch/button located on the front panel. This is more than just a tape input and output jack
.
I have yet seen an AVR with a “Tape Monitor” switch. Your only hope then is if your AVR has preamp out jacks and access to a power amp in, whether it be jacks in the receiver, or an external power amp.

The next few paragraphs deal with using a tape monitor circuit on a stereo receiver. The one possibility for AVR’s are covered a few paragraphs down.

In the good old days of analog two-channel stereo, adding an equalizer was as simple as pie. You simply located the tape monitor output on the back panel, ran an interconnect from there to the eq’s input, and then ran another interconnect from the eq’s output back to the tape monitor’s input on the receiver. You turn on the eq, push the “Tape Monitor” button on the receiver in, and, viola! Your eq is now in the circuit!

Or, to put in a more visual sense

• Amplifier/receiver tape output to equalizer input
• Equalizer output to Amplifier/receiver tape input
• Press “Tape Monitor” button on the Amplifier/receiver and you’re in business.
  Likewise, to take the eq out of the circuit, you just pushed the “Tape Monitor” switch again to restore the internal signal path.

Essentially, what the “tape monitor” button does can be described in two steps.

1) When the “tape monitor” button is in its “out” position, the signal is fed internally from the “tape out” jacks to the “tape in” jacks.
2) When you push it in, that out/in connection severed, the signal goes out the “tape monitor out” jacks, through the external device, and then back into the “tape monitor in” jacks.

This is why pushing the “tape monitor” button in when nothing is connected to the “tape monitor” in and out jacks, the signal will disappear. It’s going out but never returning.

Now, if one is talking about one of the current AVR's, simply having tape out (or pre out) and tape in jacks on the back panel does not guarantee that it will create the needed "monitor loop" configuration. Again, I have yet seen an AVR with a tape monitor switch.

While many AVR’s might have “tape out” "or "pre out" jacks on the back to allow you to send an analog two-channel signal out to an external device, it’s generally a one-way trip.

Likewise, they might have a “tape input” on the back to allow you to play tapes through your system, but odds are it must be selected via the input selector, which makes it worthless for the purpose of inserting an eq into the circuit.

The key is to scour the front panel for a "tape loop" or "tape monitor" button. Without that, these two sets of jacks simply allow a signal to be sent out to a tape deck but that tape deck's input must be selected as another input, not the out/in loop, as many have discovered.

So, if you do indeed have the needed "tape monitor loop" then you're good to go but be aware that it will only affect two channels, most likely the front two.

One way to verify you do have what's needed is to take one stereo interconnect and connect the tape output to the tape input in question. Switch the receiver to FM, CD or some other source besides tape, and press the tape monitor switch. It should sound exactly the same. If you lose the signal, there's a problem. Likewise, not being able to find the "tape monitor" button/switch on the front panel is a problem also.

But, not all hope is lost. In some cases, you can use an eq between the preamp stage and power amp, assuming the receiver offers these I/O options. Some receivers have outputs but no power inputs. In that case, you'll need to feed an external power amp. There’s a downside here in that you might pick up a bit more moise than you would if you had used the tape monitor loop, but sometime you have no choice.

 

[macddmac]

That Amp is an oldie.. And a goodie too! But I wonder if it will process the codec being sent to it from the TV. Have you tried your setup using an analog signal ?
also, do you have this: http://products.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_901.pdf
Cheers, Mac

 

[bellringer]

thanks for the detailed reply! holy cow. Yes it does have pre-amp outs and then tape loop back in for the EQ to actually intercept the signal and then use it. She did have it all hooked up before but I did not unhook or hook it up so I am flying blind. I have downloaded the owners manual for both the amp and the Bose 901s' with the EQ. This thing should sound amaizng in my little 30'x15' living room I would hope....

Maddmac: yes I do have the manuals, good suggestion though. It was hooked up before using the Digital Optical Audio cable and worked fine so it should be ok. I think this is mainly a NEWB user error.

 

[slipperybidness]

I think this is mainly a NEWB user error.

EEOCE = Equipment Exceeds Operator's Cababilities Error

A little comic relief....I'll be here all week

 

[bellringer]

EEOCE = Equipment Exceeds Operator's Cababilities Error

A little comic relief....I'll be here all week

its a fact though. :/

 

[walter duque]

markw Your only hope then is if your AVR has preamp out jacks and access to a power amp in, whether it be jacks in the receiver, or an external power amp.

That's about the only way I see it too. Unless you have jumpers that you can remove to go from preamp to eq to poweramp in your AVR you would need an external poweramp. I have to totally agree with Mark on this one.

 

[bellringer]

Are you familiar with the yamaha a3090?

 

[walter duque]

Are you familiar with the yamaha a3090?

Can you post a link with the back panel, I can't seem to find anything.

 

[Pyrrho]

That is an old model, with features set up quite differently from most current models. For people who are having trouble with a basic search, here it is:

DSP-A3090 - Amplifiers - Hi-Fi Components - Audio & Visual - Products - Yamaha United States

What source are you trying to play? It may be that you need to set the "trim" control differently for the input you are using (see page 14 of the manual).

There are also unusual controls on the back; you may need to adjust the Main Level control (p. 21 of the manual).

You should try it with the processing effects off (see p. 51).

There may be other things to adjust as well as checking on all of the connections. You should spend some quality time reading the manual, as it is quite different from current models.

Also, make sure you turn down the volume to test before adjusting something else, as the volume all the way up could be a serious problem for you if you correct your issue.

Before I read more in the manual, I will want to know how everything is hooked up, as there could be a problem there.


Edited to add:

Your description fits with accidentally pushing in the Tape button on the Bose EQ, as that should ideally completely cut off the sound, though often a tiny bit bleeds through.

 

[TLS Guy]

Are you familiar with the yamaha a3090?

That receiver does not have a tape monitor loop. I have never seen one on a receiver apart from old vintage two channel ones. However, unusually that receiver has a main in. So you need to connect the input of the equalizer to the right and left preouts and the output to the left andright main ins. You can't connect it any other way. If you get no sound from the TV, then you probably have an incorrect setting on the TV.

 

[Ponzio]

Here is a link to the Bose 901 IV series owners manual with detailed instructions on how to hook them up. I owned a pair and you can use any analog input/output (monitor in/out, cassette, vcr1, vcr2) connection on the rear of the Yamaha.

http://products.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_901.pdf

 

[ski2xblack]

...you can use any analog input/output (monitor in/out, cassette, vcr1, vcr2) connection on the rear of the Yamaha.

If and only if such loops have monitoring function, which they don't. He must use the pre-out/main-in loop with that particular AVR.

 

[Ponzio]

If and only if such loops have monitoring function, which they don't. He must use the pre-out/main-in loop with that particular AVR.

With all due respect I had my old 901's connected and working with my Yamaha RX-V1070 and later a RX-V4600, to the TAPE 2/VCR 2 in/out analog RCA conectors in the Audio Signal colum on the left. Here is a screen shot from my 1070.

View attachment 12858

I'm "assuming" that the exact model number of his unit is a DSP-A3090, since that's the only one that comes up in the Yamaha Audio database. I downloaded the manual and as can be seen by this screen shot, he should be able to connect to the TAPE 1 or TAPE 2 in/out analog RCA conectors in the Audio Signal colum on the left (labeled 5 above the colum) also.

View attachment 12859

 

[JerryLove]

I'm "assuming" that the exact model number of his unit is a DSP-A3090, since that's the only one that comes up in the Yamaha Audio database. I downloaded the manual and as can be seen by this screen shot, he should be able to connect to the TAPE 1 or TAPE 2 in/out analog RCA conectors in the Audio Signal colum on the left (labeled 5 above the colum) also.

View attachment 12859

The manual (http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/am/DSP-A3090.pdf) mentions a TAPE 2 MONITOR, but not TAPE 1. So they would need to use the TAPE 2 out and in.

That said: were it me I would much *prefer* to use the PRE OUT and MAIN IN jacks. It would be a better choice (IMO).

 

[Ponzio]

The manual (http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/am/DSP-A3090.pdf) mentions a TAPE 2 MONITOR, but not TAPE 1. So they would need to use the TAPE 2 out and in.

That said: were it me I would much *prefer* to use the PRE OUT and MAIN IN jacks. It would be a better choice (IMO).

You may be right. I went by the Bose manual instructions and they both worked for me, in TAPE 1 & TAPE 2 in/out's on my Yammy's. I think we've given Mr. bellringer plenty of options to try out and report back either way.