New home: in wall and in ceiling speaker advice

T

TT_Rod

Enthusiast
I am planning for a couple places to watch tv/listen to music and need to use in wall and in ceiling speakers to keep peace at home.
Room 1: 5.1 system size 18’ x 16’ x 10’
Room 2: 7.1 system size 20’ x 14’ x 9’
Planning on Denon X3700 AVRs and on getting SVS PB2000 Pro subs.
Let’s say budget is ~$750 for each of the six LCRs.
I need two in wall surround for room 2. I also need two in ceiling surround back for each room.
I got other zones in the house that need in ceiling speakers too. If possible would like to stay inexpensive here.
Could you help with some suggestions?
Regards,
Rod
 
tmurnin

tmurnin

Full Audioholic
Not sure I understand the question here. Are you getting normal speakers for LCR in both rooms and then in-wall/in-ceiling for the surrounds? Your budget for the front stage in each room is $750 total per room? Or are you saying $750 per speaker?
 
T

TT_Rod

Enthusiast
Only subwoofers are not in wall/ceiling.
Budget is $750 for each of the six in wall LCR speakers.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I am planning for a couple places to watch tv/listen to music and need to use in wall and in ceiling speakers to keep peace at home.
Room 1: 5.1 system size 18’ x 16’ x 10’
Room 2: 7.1 system size 20’ x 14’ x 9’
Planning on Denon X3700 AVRs and on getting SVS PB2000 Pro subs.
Let’s say budget is ~$750 for each of the six LCRs.
I need two in wall surround for room 2. I also need two in ceiling surround back for each room.
I got other zones in the house that need in ceiling speakers too. If possible would like to stay inexpensive here.
Could you help with some suggestions?
Regards,
Rod
Is this new or existing construction? Those are fairly big spaces. Most in wall systems are open backed with no enclosure. In my view this is a bad idea, and those systems should be avoided. For one thing you can not get really good quality sound from those systems. Secondly you don't want all that rear sound radiation from the drivers bleeding into the house walls. Thirdly the lack of any restoring force on the drivers, makes for blown drivers, unless this is going to be a low volume system.

You can design a very good in wall system, because I have done it, but not within the constraints of standard stud spacing and depth.
So new construction like I had makes for a much better and more potent system. So new construction, or being prepared to really open up the walls, gives you much more scope. That way you can also configure a potent in wall sub or two.

Beware these systems look good in the pictures, but few manufacturers post meaningful specs, and even fewer dare to publish meaningful measurements.
There are a lot of factors working against you in these in wall systems, so they require a lot of thought, to really bring it off. There is a lot of, "its good for an in wall system". Whereas they design goal should be, "its a really good system despite being in wall." Those design goals and results are poles apart.
 
T

TT_Rod

Enthusiast
I’ll take a look at the Triad option and discuss with a dealer in my area (north of NYC). It might be somewhat of conflict with builder’s AV person. So, I wanted to have some system specs to discuss alternatives.

It’s a new construction. I got time to modify these two rooms standard stud spacing and depth. I just don’t know what I need to request.
I guess if I work with a Triad dealer I’ll get proper guidance. I just wanted to see alternatives out there before getting into any specific dealer rabbit hole.
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
I'm a Triad dealer, and would be happy to help.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
I am planning for a couple places to watch tv/listen to music and need to use in wall and in ceiling speakers to keep peace at home.
Room 1: 5.1 system size 18’ x 16’ x 10’
Room 2: 7.1 system size 20’ x 14’ x 9’
Planning on Denon X3700 AVRs and on getting SVS PB2000 Pro subs.
Let’s say budget is ~$750 for each of the six LCRs.
I need two in wall surround for room 2. I also need two in ceiling surround back for each room.
I got other zones in the house that need in ceiling speakers too. If possible would like to stay inexpensive here.
Could you help with some suggestions?
Regards,
Rod
In my experience, in ceiling surrounds are much less effective than ear height. I have ceiling surrounds in one system, and ear level surrounds in the other. The difference is very noticeable. On the other hand, if the ceiling is your only option they're better than nothing.

My experience with in wall speakers thus far has been underwhelming (there are many in-wall speakers I have not heard, so take this with a grain of salt). The problem I've run into is finding "hard" data on the performance of in-wall speakers. It makes it difficult to know what you're getting. (keep in mind that an in wall speaker with exactly the same tweeter/midrange/woofers and crosovers as a tower will most likely sound significantly different if mounted in wall with no cabinet). The lack of hard data doesn't bother me so much if I'm only spending $100-$200 per speaker because it's not huge expense and I already know it's not going to be great speaker in that price range. If I was going to spend significantly more than this, I'd try to figure out some way to hear the speakers before buying them.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I’ll take a look at the Triad option and discuss with a dealer in my area (north of NYC). It might be somewhat of conflict with builder’s AV person. So, I wanted to have some system specs to discuss alternatives.

It’s a new construction. I got time to modify these two rooms standard stud spacing and depth. I just don’t know what I need to request.
I guess if I work with a Triad dealer I’ll get proper guidance. I just wanted to see alternatives out there before getting into any specific dealer rabbit hole.
I wanted to confirm that it was new construction. I think the system I designed is an in wall system that is also a state of the art system by any measure. It fitted my wife's requirements adhering to her specification. It is a potent, powerful, highly accurate system, that fills a large space without distress.

If you want the boards can be cut, packed up and sent to you from the cabinet maker in Albany Minnesota.

This is the system.



This is a link to the build.

This is the correct sub driver for the transmission line subwoofer. Transmission line designs done correctly give unparalled bass definition and accuracy. They are also highly efficient. That sub fills that large space with ease.

The TL sub.





The installation.





The center uses a midrange driver that can cover the whole of the speech discrimination band. Voices are natural with very high clarity.

This system is used more than any of the three other systems here, by virtue of its location. This system is a fine system and easily stands the comparison with the finest free standing systems.

I would be happy to arrange to have the parts made and shipped to you if you wish. I would be happy to build the crossovers for you. If you use a receiver, you will need and amp for the sub. I happen to use a couple of two channel power amps, with one powering the left and right speakers, and the other the center and sub.

For ceiling speakers in the theater, I use 6 3/4" Mark Audio drivers in 0.25 cu.ft sealed enclosures. Four of them in the theater.








You can see the finished look of the ceiling speakers here. You can see 2 of the 4, atmos speakers.



The left and right speakers of the in wall system could be used as surrounds also. They could easily be redesigned also for one mid bass and tweeter. This would save money and be smaller speakers.
 
Last edited:
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
A lot of the main speaker companies also make in-wall and in-ceiling speakers: RBH, KEF, Monitor Audio, Revel, Klipsch, Definitive Technology.

I would talk to your dealer and see what kind of deals he can offer.
 
T

TT_Rod

Enthusiast
I wanted to confirm that it was new construction. I think the system I designed is an in wall system that is also a state of the art system by any measure. It fitted my wife's requirements adhering to her specification. It is a potent, powerful, highly accurate system, that fills a large space without distress.

If you want the boards can be cut, packed up and sent to you from the cabinet maker in Albany Minnesota.

This is the system.



This is a link to the build.

This is the correct sub driver for the transmission line subwoofer. Transmission line designs done correctly give unparalled bass definition and accuracy. They are also highly efficient. That sub fills that large space with ease.

The TL sub.





The installation.





The center uses a midrange driver that can cover the whole of the speech discrimination band. Voices are natural with very high clarity.

This system is used more than any of the three other systems here, by virtue of its location. This system is a fine system and easily stands the comparison with the finest free standing systems.

I would be happy to arrange to have the parts made and shipped to you if you wish. I would be happy to build the crossovers for you. If you use a receiver, you will need and amp for the sub. I happen to use a couple of two channel power amps, with one powering the left and right speakers, and the other the center and sub.

For ceiling speakers in the theater, I use 6 3/4" Mark Audio drivers in 0.25 cu.ft sealed enclosures. Four of them in the theater.








You can see the finished look of the ceiling speakers here. You can see 2 of the 4, atmos speakers.



The left and right speakers of the in wall system could be used as surrounds also. They could easily be redesigned also for one mid bass and tweeter. This would save money and be smaller speakers.
Wow, pretty remarkable end product and if it sounds as good as you say that was an amazing work.

I did get some flex with my better half regarding subwoofer. So, I can stick with free standing subwoofers while keeping the rest of the build in wall and in ceiling which saves the work of creating a custom piece for the front and picking a media console of her choice as a hidden AV rack isn’t that important (for her).
Depending on speaker selection I’ll reach out about enclosures. Pretty amazing job @TLS_Guy.
 
T

TT_Rod

Enthusiast
A lot of the main speaker companies also make in-wall and in-ceiling speakers: RBH, KEF, Monitor Audio, Revel, Klipsch, Definitive Technology.

I would talk to your dealer and see what kind of deals he can offer.
I am still to meet my AV guy associated to the builder. I’ll keep in mind these suggestions above. I wanted to have a bit more granular expectation to avoid getting overwhelmed with too many options and details. Thank you.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
I am still to meet my AV guy associated to the builder.
I'd be amazed if this guy steers you in the right direction.
I'll take three to one odds that he steers you to open back speakers with no back boxes
 
T

TT_Rod

Enthusiast
Thanks for suggestions so far.
I liked the idea of going with Triad’s enclosed InWall and InCeiling line up for LCR and Surround. I’ll move on that once I get closer to needing them for installation. Now I already have detailed dimensions for builder specs which will become important.
Dawn also suggested I leave space for Atmos on my Movie Room set up which I hadn’t even consider. So, I’ll make sure running wiring for Atmos is included as well, even if I don’t intend to install now.
I just ordered a couple PSA V1512DF that I will run in my current very simple set up but plan to incorporate in the new home alongside Triad’s set up.
 
T

TT_Rod

Enthusiast
I just ordered a couple PSA V1512DF that I will run in my current very simple set up but plan to incorporate in the new home alongside Triad’s set up.
PSA subs arrived a couple weeks ago.
I had a crummy Yamaha 8” sub supporting my home theater in the family room for so long that I barely noticed I had a sub. When I turned the PSA 15” subs on I thought something was wrong. 1700 sq ft room - everything rattles on movie action scenes - might be a bit too much.
 
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