New Guy Frustrations: Lots of $ = Not Sounding So Good

[TammyPens]

I know this is a very old theme, and it is out of a growing sense of frustration that is turning into desperation that led me here, to what looks to be an oasis of knowledge and opinions. Since you already know I'm desperate for advice, I'll start with the gear I am working with. Oh, this is all taking place in my medium sized living room. Not opulent by any means, but not a prison cell either; it is fully furnished and carpeted. I bought my first real integrated amp a few months ago: TEAC AI-301DA. I have a pair of Polk Monitor 40's that have been gently used for 14 months, if that. Maybe two hours a day max. I also have a set of Klipsch R-51PM's. I won't get into the details of how and why I bought this gear. I have it now. I also have a Klipsch R-12SW. I have a iMac running OS Big Sur 11.2 and my source is TIDAL or SPOTIFY. I have tried a configuration running a USB from my mac to the Klipsch R-51PM's and using the sub out line on those to connect the subwoofer. That was overwhelming with the remotes. All the volumes and then the volume knob on the right side of the 51's. Now I have my Polks hooked up and am running them to the TEAC and using its sub out connection for the 12 subwoofer. It seems to sound better that way. So I guess what I'm asking is where is my weak link? Do I trash the Polks and buy some better speakers like RP-600's and keep the TEAC and the Klipsch Sub, because I have the bass covered. Or do I put money into a better amp and find another use for the TEAC. Any and ALL suggestions are welcome. THANKS!

 

[NINaudio]

If your main concern is to improve sound quality then you would need better speakers, not a different amp. Is there something in particular that you aren't happy with?

 

[Pogre]

Phew. Lots to unpack here...

Your sub is what jumps out at me first. Klipsch subs for the most part are pretty lacking.

Your TEAC seems a bit underpowered but depending on room size and distance from your speakers that may or may not be a factor. Curious tho, why that particular model? A good mid tier HT receiver would have more power, connection options, bass management, room correction, etc. I use a pc for my music and HDMI to connect it all. Easy peasy. Does the TEAC receiver offer any kind of bass management (like the ability to set a crossover point between speakers and sub) or is it just a sub out?

I can't find any meaningful specs on your Polks. They don't list fr or sensitivity on their site, but I generally don't look to Polk when speaker shopping. I think there are better sounding options for the prices.

Klipsch can make some good speakers, but again, they're not my usual go to when speaker shopping. I'm not familiar with your particular model, but they're powered right? They're a whole different animal and aren't using the TEAC's onboard amps at all.

I haven't found a streaming service I was happy with in terms of sound quality. When compared to my lossless cd rips it's no contest. I much, much prefer my rips. They're just cleaner and clearer. Amazon Prime HD music came close, but my own native content still sounds better. I gave them a shot with a free trial offer and cancelled as soon as it was up.

Finally, speakers and subs are definitely where it's at for sound quality. Amps and receivers will for the most part sound similar enough, with a lot of differences in the way they measure falling outside the range of human hearing. A lot of folks get tangled up in trying to make improvements by rotating through receivers and amps and that's a good way to spend a lot of money while driving yourself nuts trying to hear differences between them.

So, what are your listening habits volume-wise? What specifically are you not happy with right now? Placement, positioning and room have a huge impact on overall sq too. A pic of your setup and room might be helpful.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

A) What is the main usage? Music I assume? If so, the way to improve sound quality is (as mentioned above) to replace the speakers first. Your current weakest link are these Polk Monitor 40 - IMHO they are pretty looking but terribly sounding speakers. The absolute lowest Polk I'd ever allow in my home is LSi series, which obviously way too expensive even at the occasional 50% off sales.

 

[TammyPens]

Phew. Lots to unpack here...

Your sub is what jumps out at me first. Klipsch subs for the most part are pretty lacking.

Your TEAC seems a bit underpowered but depending on room size and distance from your speakers that may or may not be a factor. Curious tho, why that particular model? A good mid tier HT receiver would have more power, connection options, bass management, room correction, etc. I use a pc for my music and HDMI to connect it all. Easy peasy. Does the TEAC receiver offer any kind of bass management (like the ability to set a crossover point between speakers and sub) or is it just a sub out?

I can't find any meaningful specs on your Polks. They don't list fr or sensitivity on their site, but I generally don't look to Polk when speaker shopping. I think there are better sounding options for the prices.

Klipsch can make some good speakers, but again, they're not my usual go to when speaker shopping. I'm not familiar with your particular model, but they're powered right? They're a whole different animal and aren't using the TEAC's onboard amps at all.

I haven't found a streaming service I was happy with in terms of sound quality. When compared to my lossless cd rips it's no contest. I much, much prefer my rips. They're just cleaner and clearer. Amazon Prime HD music came close, but my own native content still sounds better. I gave them a shot with a free trial offer and cancelled as soon as it was up.

Finally, speakers and subs are definitely where it's at for sound quality. Amps and receivers will for the most part sound similar enough, with a lot of differences in the way they measure falling outside the range of human hearing. A lot of folks get tangled up in trying to make improvements by rotating through receivers and amps and that's a good way to spend a lot of money while driving yourself nuts trying to hear differences between them.

So, what are your listening habits volume-wise? What specifically are you not happy with right now? Placement, positioning and room have a huge impact on overall sq too. A pic of your setup and room might be helpful.

Dude you are totally correct and my apologies for not being more specific but I have been twacking around with this getup for a few days now and I'm just kind of maxed out dealing with it. So the Polk Monitor 40's are my two main speakers I guess you would say and what I'm doing is running Tidal (HIFI) usb from my iMac into the TEAC amp. I have the Polk Monitor 40's bi-wired into that amp and then the Klipsch is connected to that just with a subwoofer cable using the onboard sub out of the TEAC. So the powered r-51PM's are out of the equation. No more powered speakers. Only utilizing the amplifier on the TEAC. So it looks like the bottleneck here is going to be in the Polk's. My listening is very strange. I listened to Rachmaninoff's Second this morning and then went to Lynyrd Skynyrd as my attitude deteriorated and my BAC increased steadily through the morning. I suppose my disappointment lies in the fact that I thought I would have a bit more clarity, more precision in the sound delivery. Am I crazy?

 

[TammyPens]

A) What is the main usage? Music I assume? If so, the way to improve sound quality is (as mentioned above) to replace the speakers first. Your current weakest link are these Polk Monitor 40 - IMHO they are pretty looking but terribly sounding speakers. The absolute lowest Polk I'd ever allow in my home is LSi series, which obviously way too expensive even at the occasional 50% off sales.

I think you are spot on. Yes, I am using this 2.1 for music with TIDAL as the source through my iMac by USB into my TEAC amp. I guess at this point I could only sink another $700 into a pair of bookshelf speakers. I don't have a lot of cash to play around with, and it sounds like you do, but if you were in my position (thankfully you aren't) what speakers would you allow into your home?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Burke

 

[lovinthehd]

Using two pairs of speakers simultaneously is not a good thing either generally. Pick the best pair for best results. Bi-wiring is a waste of wire, if you really mean bi-wired.

 

[Pogre]

I think you are spot on. Yes, I am using this 2.1 for music with TIDAL as the source through my iMac by USB into my TEAC amp. I guess at this point I could only sink another $700 into a pair of bookshelf speakers. I don't have a lot of cash to play around with, and it sounds like you do, but if you were in my position (thankfully you aren't) what speakers would you allow into your home?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Burke

Shady did an article recently comparing a few sets of bookshelf speakers for $500 that all look like winners in the price range.

Our Top Five $500 Bookshelf Speaker Picks for 2021

Looking for a pair of bookshelf speakers in the $500 price range? We have compiled a list of our top choices for bookshelf speakers at that price point for 2021.

www.audioholics.com

I personally like the looks of the MA monitor and have been wanting to check out the DefTechs. The former has a great rep and the latter seems to show some significant improvements over previous offerings.

Also, yes. Bi wiring doesn't really offer anything, and I still think you need to upgrade that sub as well. Good subs do more than just add bass. They can really clean up your whole system.

 

[Pogre]

AND... your bass management situation might be sketchy with that amp. I don't know for sure without more digging, but stereo receivers aren't known for their great bass management. From what I see you didn't spend big bucks on it tho? Something with HDMI and a little more power would be nice, but let's get your speakers and subs sorted first.

 

[Leemix]

I didnt see anything about a crossover in the teac integrated amps manual, so it might just send a full range signal out. Have you set up the sub with the controls on the back of the sub?
If the sub isnt set up properly it will likly sound bad no matter what speakers are connected.


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[lovinthehd]

Also if budget is limited the used market may be a better way to go speaker shopping.....

 

[Pogre]

I didnt see anything about a crossover in the teac integrated amps manual, so it might just send a full range signal out. Have you set up the sub with the controls on the back of the sub?
If the sub isnt set up properly it will likly sound bad no matter what speakers are connected.

This is exactly what I'm getting at when I say bass management. You have to strike a balance between speakers and subwoofer by filtering higher frequencies going to the sub, while filtering the lower frequencies going to the speakers. If you don't have bass management built into your receiver you need to figure out your speaker's f3 and adjust the low pass/crossover dial on the back of the sub to overlap.

 

[Pogre]

Also if budget is limited the used market may be a better way to go speaker shopping.....

Uh... yup! If you're in a populated area Craigslist can be a goldmine!

 

[zieglj01]

To be honest since you seem to have critical ears ... I would get better speakers

 

[Leemix]

This is exactly what I'm getting at when I say bass management. You have to strike a balance between speakers and subwoofer by filtering higher frequencies going to the sub, while filtering the lower frequencies going to the speakers. If you don't have bass management built into your receiver you need to figure out your speaker's f3 and adjust the low pass/crossover dial on the back of the sub to overlap.

Yep, i saw your post just after posting my reply so you beat me too it lol


To the OP, how are the speakers placed?


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[BoredSysAdmin]

I think you are spot on. Yes, I am using this 2.1 for music with TIDAL as the source through my iMac by USB into my TEAC amp. I guess at this point I could only sink another $700 into a pair of bookshelf speakers. I don't have a lot of cash to play around with, and it sounds like you do, but if you were in my position (thankfully you aren't) what speakers would you allow into your home?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Burke

I carefully considered all factors including a fairly low-powered Teac amp, I consider HSU CCB-8's to be your best choice. (HB1-MK2 are already great, but have a narrow listening window) But while you'd be looking for HSU bookshelf speakers, it would be a crime not to check their subwoofers, which HSU makes one of the best out there, in both performance and value. HSU also sells their bookshelves and subs a package for a small discount.

CCB-8 Speaker

Order Note: Each order quantity contains ONE speaker. For a pair you would need to change the quantity to two The CCB-8, a constant directivity horn made in collaboration with Don Keele, is one of the industry’s best performing speakers when it comes to smooth, musical, off-axis response...

www.hsuresearch.com

Hybrid 2 MK5 Packages

If you'd had a more powerful amp, I'd recommend these speakers:

The New Affordable Accuracy Plus Monitor

PS:
Re: Klipsch RP-600M:

Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review. I purchased them from Amazon a couple of weeks ago. The current cost on Amazon is US $629 including Prime shipping. I however found a refurbished one for $450 I think. It looks brand new in the box though...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Kingnoob]

I think you are spot on. Yes, I am using this 2.1 for music with TIDAL as the source through my iMac by USB into my TEAC amp. I guess at this point I could only sink another $700 into a pair of bookshelf speakers. I don't have a lot of cash to play around with, and it sounds like you do, but if you were in my position (thankfully you aren't) what speakers would you allow into your home?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Burke

I never even heard of a teac amp what model number, ? Any pics of your set up.
Properly set up low end speakers sound better then a poorly one ...
If you like Klipch go that rout sell your speakers if you don’t like them don’t junk them ...
Denon and Yamaha make some affordable amps .

 

[Kingnoob]

This is exactly what I'm getting at when I say bass management. You have to strike a balance between speakers and subwoofer by filtering higher frequencies going to the sub, while filtering the lower frequencies going to the speakers. If you don't have bass management built into your receiver you need to figure out your speaker's f3 and adjust the low pass/crossover dial on the back of the sub to overlap.

Also depends on his sources I tried watching u verse cable I get no bass without it a sub even my Klipch icon towers no bass set full range when I had sub off ...
hope his amp has x over settings too much bass can blow speakers easily ..
Your amp will work fine for 2 channels music you need an avr for surrounds sound ..

Home review

It’s not perfect, but the TEAC’s warm, smooth presentation is enjoyable

www.whathifi.com

Oh you can hook it to a Tv also .
Get Klipch or any brand of tower speakers if you want bigger sound .. bookshelves only can do so much . Or use your Klipch and get a better sub.
Your speakers are powered why you even need a teac amp ? Klipsch R-51PM Powered Bluetooth Speaker https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FKCP7PZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_2JW8CEK6S2EGY51RQ3H2
Those are nice
Actually I’d upgrade speakers before a subwoofer... and keep those Klipch for other uses . Or use two systems
Cheap Towers ...not sure teac can power them tho .

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