New Drivers in Old Enclosure

[Rickster71]

Hello,
I have a pair of Design Acoustics PS-103
Their about 17 years old. The cabinets are in perfect condition, and use a lot of solid oak in the tops, etc. So I hate to just throw them away. Besides they have much sentimental value, remind me of my bachelor days.
I'd like to replace the drivers and crossovers, and improve them as much as possible.
Am I chasing my tail? Or is this a viable endeavor?
What would I need to calculate box volume, and match the right crossover?
Thanks in advance.

 

[highfihoney]

hmmm

why not have the driver's rebuilt,a very cost effective way to bring your speaker's back to life plus you will keep the original speaker design intact.

unless the xover's show sign's of corrosion or have problem's that can be heard they should be fine,having driver's completely rebuilt from the basket up is pretty cheap when compared against buying quality driver's.

finding a speaker rebuilder is not all that hard in most place's.

 

[Rickster71]

why not have the driver's rebuilt,a very cost effective way to bring your speaker's back to life plus you will keep the original speaker design intact.

unless the xover's show sign's of corrosion or have problem's that can be heard they should be fine,having driver's completely rebuilt from the basket up is pretty cheap when compared against buying quality driver's.

finding a speaker rebuilder is not all that hard in most place's.

Thanks for your quick reply.
I refoamed the 10" woofer and 6" mids this summer.
At that time I found the drivers had stamped frames, and weren't of high quality. I even upgraded caps and added a few air-core inductors. After this they sounded good. Except when compaired side by side to my Paradigm Signature S-4's, even my wife could tell the difference.
Also, I've noticed you mention 'home made speaker wires' in your profile. Can you tell me about them?
And I'm still open for any suggestions to my original question. Thanks!

 

[highfihoney]

Thanks for your quick reply.
I refoamed the 10" woofer and 6" mids this summer.
At that time I found the drivers had stamped frames, and weren't of high quality. I even upgraded caps and added a few air-core inductors. After this they sounded good. Except when compaired side by side to my Paradigm Signature S-4's, even my wife could tell the difference.
Also, I've noticed you mention 'home made speaker wires' in your profile. Can you tell me about them?
And I'm still open for any suggestions to my original question. Thanks!

the main reason's i made my own wire's are that i couldnt stand looking at just plain wire laying around & wanted to jazz up the look without taking it in the seat buying wire's.

i have a few different pair's,some using cardas banana's & other's using monster bananas,i prefer the monster bananas as they fit easier into my amp's & speaker's.

i started out with equal length's of wire then put one end of the wire in a vise & the other end into a cordless drill & twisted them together,i then took shrink wrap tubing bought from part's express & put it over the twisted wire's leaving it a little long to be sure of a clean finish,i then installed one banana on the end making sure the shrink tubing was inside the banana & heated the tubing with a hair dryer the entire length until i got very close to the other end, then i cut the shrink tubing to an exact fit & installed the other banana end making sure the banana covered the tubing enough to allow a tight fit then finished heating the rest of the way.

it ended up costing me about $40 to make a set of 15 ft wire's but they look very nice & the twist in the wire's look's sweet under the shrink wrap tubing.

have a good day

 

[MacManNM]

Hello,
I have a pair of Design Acoustics PS-103
Their about 17 years old. The cabinets are in perfect condition, and use a lot of solid oak in the tops, etc. So I hate to just throw them away. Besides they have much sentimental value, remind me of my bachelor days.
I'd like to replace the drivers and crossovers, and improve them as much as possible.
Am I chasing my tail? Or is this a viable endeavor?
What would I need to calculate box volume, and match the right crossover?
Thanks in advance.

Measure the inside of the boxes. Are they sealed enclosures,or vented? You also need to measure any bracing, ports, etc that are inside the enclosure. Are you going to replace all of the drivers? What size drivers are in them now?

 

[j_garcia]

Are the enclosures sealed or vented (ported)? One big issue with replacing everything would be redesigning the x-over. This is no small task and without at least basic equipment to measure the response, the results will be hit or miss. I think hifihoney's recommendation is a good one.

 

[Rickster71]

Measure the inside of the boxes. Are they sealed enclosures,or vented? You also need to measure any bracing, ports, etc that are inside the enclosure. Are you going to replace all of the drivers? What size drivers are in them now?

Yes, I would like to change all the drivers.
The enclosures are sealed.
They consist of a 10" down-firing woofer, 6" mid, and 3/4 dome tweeter. The tweeter and mid drivers share an isolated pyramidal sub-enclosure at the top.
I still have the original spec booklet. It shows crossover points / slope etc.
I see so many speaker kits advertised, that need the box to be built. My enclosures are in perfect shape, and I wouldn't mind spending $1000 or so, if I can make them better than new.
I appreciate any advice. Thanks

 

[Rickster71]

the main reason's i made my own wire's are that i couldnt stand looking at just plain wire laying around & wanted to jazz up the look without taking it in the seat buying wire's.

i have a few different pair's,some using cardas banana's & other's using monster bananas,i prefer the monster bananas as they fit easier into my amp's & speaker's.

i started out with equal length's of wire then put one end of the wire in a vise & the other end into a cordless drill & twisted them together,i then took shrink wrap tubing bought from part's express & put it over the twisted wire's leaving it a little long to be sure of a clean finish,i then installed one banana on the end making sure the shrink tubing was inside the banana & heated the tubing with a hair dryer the entire length until i got very close to the other end, then i cut the shrink tubing to an exact fit & installed the other banana end making sure the banana covered the tubing enough to allow a tight fit then finished heating the rest of the way.

it ended up costing me about $40 to make a set of 15 ft wire's but they look very nice & the twist in the wire's look's sweet under the shrink wrap tubing.

have a good day

Sounds like a nice job on your speaker wires.
What gauge wire did you use?

I've seen braided CAT5 cable used, what do you think of that for speakers? It looks like a lot work.
I have a few hundred feet laying around.

I see that your into McIntosh.
Have you seen the site www.roger-russell.com
He is a retired engineer from McIntosh Laboratory.

 

[highfihoney]

Sounds like a nice job on your speaker wires.
What gauge wire did you use?

I've seen braided CAT5 cable used, what do you think of that for speakers? It looks like a lot work.
I have a few hundred feet laying around.

I see that your into McIntosh.
Have you seen the site www.roger-russell.com
He is a retired engineer from McIntosh Laboratory.

CAT 5 isnt that telecommunication wire? i wouldnt have a clue about using that type of wire maybee someone else who is a bit more up on cat wire will chime in on that one.

for my front's & rear's i used 12 gauge wire & for the center i used 10 gauge,it isnt really that much work just make sure you have cold beer on hand & before you know it your all done

im very familuar with roger russell's site infact he has helped me with several problem's i had that i could not solve on my own in another system,roger is a super nice guy & has alway's been a big help to me,it's too bad that after clarion bought mcintosh they stopped using his speaker design's,i cant stand to be in the same room for more than a minute with the newer design 4 ohm plastic driver mac speaker's,what were they thinking.

 

[MacManNM]

Yes, I would like to change all the drivers.
The enclosures are sealed.
They consist of a 10" down-firing woofer, 6" mid, and 3/4 dome tweeter. The tweeter and mid drivers share an isolated pyramidal sub-enclosure at the top.
I still have the original spec booklet. It shows crossover points / slope etc.
I see so many speaker kits advertised, that need the box to be built. My enclosures are in perfect shape, and I wouldn't mind spending $1000 or so, if I can make them better than new.
I appreciate any advice. Thanks

If you can post some pics and dimensions, I’m sure we can get this figured out. Do you have any type of equipment to make some measurements of the electrical properties of the crossovers? There are 2 choices here, you can try and just upgrade your drivers and use the existing crossovers, or you can design a new unit around the enclosure, which would include new crossovers and drivers.

 

[MacManNM]

CAT 5 isnt that telecommunication wire? i wouldnt have a clue about using that type of wire maybee someone else who is a bit more up on cat wire will chime in on that one.

for my front's & rear's i used 12 gauge wire & for the center i used 10 gauge,it isnt really that much work just make sure you have cold beer on hand & before you know it your all done

im very familuar with roger russell's site infact he has helped me with several problem's i had that i could not solve on my own in another system,roger is a super nice guy & has alway's been a big help to me,it's too bad that after clarion bought mcintosh they stopped using his speaker design's,i cant stand to be in the same room for more than a minute with the newer design 4 ohm plastic driver mac speaker's,what were they thinking.

Agreed, that's why I'm still using my XR16's in my 2 ch setup.

 

[philh]

try calling Madisound and see if they are familar with your speaker. I did that with my WAY TOO OLD Criterion speakers. The replacement drivers were very affordable and an improvement. Few years later, they just didn't sound right and replaced the caps. Huge improvement. So far, I've been happy enough to not spend the money for replacements.

 

[Rickster71]

If you can post some pics and dimensions, I’m sure we can get this figured out. Do you have any type of equipment to make some measurements of the electrical properties of the crossovers? There are 2 choices here, you can try and just upgrade your drivers and use the existing crossovers, or you can design a new unit around the enclosure, which would include new crossovers and drivers.

HI,
Thanks for everyone's input, it's a big help.

I do have a multi-meter to make measurements.
Your idea sounds good; about changing drivers first.
My drivers have numbers stamped on them, no manufacturer.
I've been told there is a 'speaker list' to cross reference, to find out who makes them.
Do you know anything about that?

The other issue is, I don't want to replace the drivers with equivalents.
I'd like to really improve on them.
So, how will I know what drivers to pick, and how they should compliment each other?
Would my next step be to measure internal volume.
Then find software to tailor a crossover?
My other question, how do I match the drivers to the crossover?
Sorry for so many questions, this is the point where I get bogged down.
What first, chicken, egg, speaker, crossover?
THANKS Everyone!

 

[Dryseals]

I'm kind of in the same boat you are, not knowing what is good and what is bad now a days. Been out of the speaker game for quite some time and just recently popped back in it. What I've been doing is cruising around the sites and seeing what others have used for thier projects. Note the part numbers and then look up the spec sheets and curves.

I think from the curves you can determine some of the quality of the speaker, not so much the sound, but how well it functions. One with a relatively flat curve without oddball peaks and dives will normally tell you how well balanced the components are, along with the price.

Everyone has different sounds levels they like. Some folks like a bassy sound some more mid some real bright. I for one cannot stand the sound of a ported speaker, sounds to round, artificial. I love the bass that has a good fast attack and a bright tweeter, So I am building along those lines.

Pull your crossover and draw it out so you'll know what you have. Measure your speakers and and the enclosure. If you are going to keep the enclosure then work form there, you can easily reduce the volume of the enclosure but not increase.

I just bought a set of vintage Realistic speaker for the cabinets alone, solid wood on the sides, MDF front and back, the cabinets are perfect and represent that early 70's look and feel. The drivers are old but still sound well....OK. My plan is to replace the front MDF and install new modern drivers. These will sit in my shop along with a ton of other 70s gear. I also just bit the bullet and did some blind purchases from parts express, building a surround system for the my sons bedroom, a couple of different brand tweeters and mid bass speakers. I'll let you know in a few days how I think the speakers sound.

 

[MacManNM]

HI,
Thanks for everyone's input, it's a big help.

I do have a multi-meter to make measurements.
Your idea sounds good; about changing drivers first.
My drivers have numbers stamped on them, no manufacturer.
I've been told there is a 'speaker list' to cross reference, to find out who makes them.
Do you know anything about that?

The other issue is, I don't want to replace the drivers with equivalents.
I'd like to really improve on them.
So, how will I know what drivers to pick, and how they should compliment each other?
Would my next step be to measure internal volume.
Then find software to tailor a crossover?
My other question, how do I match the drivers to the crossover?
Sorry for so many questions, this is the point where I get bogged down.
What first, chicken, egg, speaker, crossover?
THANKS Everyone!

You need to measure the interior of the enclosure, and calculate the volume. Then you need to measure all of the bracing and calculate the volume of those. Then you subtract the bracing from the internal volume. This will give you the actual volume of your enclosure. let's get that done and then worry about all of the other stuff.

 

[Rickster71]

I have volume measured

You need to measure the interior of the enclosure, and calculate the volume. Then you need to measure all of the bracing and calculate the volume of those. Then you subtract the bracing from the internal volume. This will give you the actual volume of your enclosure. let's get that done and then worry about all of the other stuff.

Hi guys, sorry about the delay.
I finally have the woofer enclosure volume measured.
It's 2,711.125 cubic inches. With bracing subtracted.
Do I need to do the same for the mid and tweeter?
They are in a separate pyramid like enclosure.
Also, how do I add pictures? Mine are over 100kb.
Thanks, Rick