NEW Dolby Digital and DTS formats

G

gcmarshall

Full Audioholic
i didn't want to hijack the other recent thread that mentioned this topic as a side bar, since the fella is looking for different info. but, something he said sparked my curiosity.....what's this about new dolby digital and new DTS formats coming down the pipe later this year? is that hearsay or fact? what will the difference/improvement be over the current DD and DTS formats?
 
bigbassdave

bigbassdave

Full Audioholic
Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD are what they are called if I am not mistaken and I know Dolby claims a higher bit rate than the Dolby Digital we are using now and up to 13.1 channels of discrete audio. I assume the receivers we are using now will need to be replaced and I think they are hitting the market either shortly before or after Blu Ray and HD DVD players are released.
 
Dolby TrueHD is the new format for the new high definition DVD formats... It is basically lossless PCM 7.1 but will be analogue-only on first generation players until HDMI 1.3 is released.

We'll write another article soon about the various formats - it seems needed.
 
Zer0beaT

Zer0beaT

Junior Audioholic
I'm also really interested in this but mostly from information that I've read claiming these new formats to be technically uncompressed from the original master source.

So I'm more interested in these new formats as a fan of music and wondering if Dolby/DTS (and the record labels of course) are planning new audio music formats to replace DVD-A/SACD.

And of course, if we'll need new pre-amps along with our fancy new BluRay/HDDVD players to enjoy all the benefits of any new audio formats.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Read this:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/DTSHDdemoCES.php

Some interesting points from the article:

*DTS-HD™ is the only technology that will deliver lossless surround sound for these new disc formats, ensuring the highest quality audio performance available in the new standards.

*As a mandatory technology in the next generation standards, a DTS decoder will be built into every HD-DVD or Blu-ray Disc player.

*One single DTS-HD datastream on a disc can carry everything from standard DTS 5.1 playable on virtually all existing 280 million plus DTS decoders, all the way to lossless for next-generation systems.
 
MACCA350

MACCA350

Audioholic Chief
DTS-HD is not the only lossless format(although they'd like to think so).

Dolby TrueHD is also lossless with among other things, up to 14 channels, enhanced downmix, dynamic range control(which I couldn't live without), and metadata capabilities.

From their CES 2006 news page:
Audio for Next-Generation DVDs

Dolby will prominently feature Dolby TrueHD as the audio standard for discriminating consumers of next-generation optical media. Dolby's preeminent surround sound technology provides up to 7.1 channels of pure, lossless surround sound, as well as enhanced downmix, dynamic range control, and metadata capabilities. With Dolby TrueHD, dedicated audiophiles as well as casual home theater viewers will experience uncompromised audio performance that is bit-for-bit equivalent to the highest-resolution studio masters. Dolby TrueHD is truly high-definition audio, complementing the high-definition picture from both the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats.

Dolby TrueHD technology is an essential component in next-generation A/V equipment, and it also brings powerful new sonic benefits to both new and legacy home theater systems, something no other audio format can achieve. Dolby TrueHD allows owners of current A/V receivers equipped with Dolby Digital decoding to experience a significant improvement in audio performance when they connect their receivers to a next-generation optical player that supports Dolby Digital 640 kbps output. Consumers who own a receiver equipped with multichannel analog inputs will be able to experience the superb audio quality of Dolby TrueHD, coupled with the expanded capability for full 7.1 discrete channel playback. For the ultimate Dolby TrueHD experience, consumers who recently purchased the latest A/V receivers with HDMI(TM) inputs can experience lossless 7.1-channel playback via a pure digital connection.
Also see their TrueHD FAQ's page.
5. What is the status of Dolby TrueHD in next-generation optical formats?
Dolby TrueHD is a mandatory audio codec for HD DVD—all players must support it—and is an optional audio codec for Blu-ray Disc.
Personally I can't see the point of 2 Lossless formats for the same movie. what a waste of space that would be:rolleyes: As if 2 new Hi-def movie formats wasn't bad enough, now they may have 2 bit-for-bit master studio quality audio tracks as well:confused: they've got rocks for brains.

cheers:)
 
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Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Consumers who own a receiver equipped with multichannel analog inputs will be able to experience the superb audio quality of Dolby TrueHD, coupled with the expanded capability for full 7.1 discrete channel playback. For the ultimate Dolby TrueHD experience, consumers who recently purchased the latest A/V receivers with HDMI(TM) inputs can experience lossless 7.1-channel playback via a pure digital connection.
I can't even tell you how nice that is to hear - that we won't need to upgrade our receivers to experience discrete 7.1 (at least those current receivers with SACD type inputs). I'm wondering what the difference between 7.1 analog and "lossless pure digital" will be.
 
HookedOnSound

HookedOnSound

Full Audioholic
Got Tylenol?

Anybody else getting a headache from all these new formats?

As far as I can tell greed is the motivation!
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
Consumers who own a receiver equipped with multichannel analog inputs will be able to experience the superb audio quality of Dolby TrueHD, coupled with the expanded capability for full 7.1 discrete channel playback. For the ultimate Dolby TrueHD experience, consumers who recently purchased the latest A/V receivers with HDMI(TM) inputs can experience lossless 7.1-channel playback via a pure digital connection.
Buckeyefan 1 said:
I can't even tell you how nice that is to hear - that we won't need to upgrade our receivers to experience discrete 7.1 (at least those current receivers with SACD type inputs). I'm wondering what the difference between 7.1 analog and "lossless pure digital" will be.
You've lost me Buckeyefan 1. The first quote talks of HDMI as the audio carrier (which I do not have on my receiver, but do on my DVD player), yet you mention (I think) an i-link or equivalent type of connection which happily I do have on both my receiver and DVD player.

Which is it?
 
MACCA350

MACCA350

Audioholic Chief
Dolby state the TrueHD will pass through existing Analogue(same as SACD & DVD-A) and will pass digitally through existing HDMI connections, but they don't say anything about i-Link or Denon Link or other digital connections of that sort(but by the time it eventuates they may allow it to pass over those). However Dolby True-HD contains a core which is a 640 kbps DD 5.1 track(better than todays DD tracks) which will pass over the usual digital connections(coax, optical and HDMI). More info hereand here.

I haven't seen any info on weather the full DTS-HD will pass over any current digital connection(HDMI or otherwise, but you'd think it will pass over HDMI) only over analogue and a standard DTS core(equivalent to today's standard DTS) version of the DTS-HD over standard digital connections(coax, optical and, I'm assuming, HDMI). There's not much info at the DTS website concerning their DTS-HD.

Anybody else getting a headache from all these new formats?
Yes, there's no need to complicate things the way they have(apart from greed). Compatibility and simplicity is what sells, truly you'd think they'd have learned their lesson after SACD and DVD-A:eek:

cheers:)
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
HookedOnSound said:
Anybody else getting a headache from all these new formats?

As far as I can tell greed is the motivation!
I am stockpiling Tylenols:D Get some stock shares:D

We are already at the detection capability limits, what will that hd audio do for you? Maybe my bat collection will be happy? LOL:D Oh, I think they are dead though:p
 
racquetman

racquetman

Audioholic Chief
HookedOnSound said:
Anybody else getting a headache from all these new formats?

As far as I can tell greed is the motivation!
The price of progress = one headache. I'd say that's worth it :D .

I love new formats. I love being on the cutting edge and trying new stuff before any of my friends do. If you catch up with where we are at now (and really understand the formats), then adding a few new ones really isn't that intimidating. They all build off of each other. Progress you see.
 
S

stanrozenfeld

Audioholic Intern
I've been wondering about compatibility of today's receivers, and having recently read a great article from dolby people in widescreen review (nov 2005), here is how I understand the situation (and please tell me what I am missing or get wrong!):

the dolby people actually prefer for the player to do all the decoding and 'mixing', unlike in today's situation where sending bitstream is the preferred method.

If you have spdif or optical connection on the receiver, the player will re-encode the dolby digital bitstream. You won't get the highest quality level, but because of the higher transfer rate than ordinary dvd, it will still sound better.

If you have analog inputs (just like for SACD and DVD-Audio), you can get the full quality of the new codecs, provided you get a player with full range of outputs, using the player's processing and d/a conversion. You'd have to make sure that the player does bass management, speaker set ups and all that good stuff. The major downside to this (aside from having to deal with 6 or 8 cables), is that since you're bypassing your receiver's processing, you won't have access to any of receiver's special functions like post processing (thx, dolby pro logic IIx), etc.

If you have an hdmi 1.1 input, then you've got it really good! The player will decode, mix and convert everything to pcm channels which then can be output via hdmi keeping everything in the digital sphere. The receiver then can take those pcm tracks and apply bass management, post processing and d/a conversion. The dolby people seemed to emphasize that this was the preferred method, because that way the processor could 'focus' on doing processor intensive stuff like post processing. My only problem with this scenario is that hdmi 1.1 doesn't pass 1080p video (I think?), so what will happen when you want to pass 1080p video and pcm audio tracks? It seems to me that if you don't want to lose quality, you'll need player that will have two hdmi outputs, one for receiver, one for display.

Finally, if you really want the receiver to do everything, including decoding, the way they do it now for dvds, you need to wait till hdmi 1.3, in which case you'll be able to send lossless bitstream (and 1080p video) via hdmi for receiver to do all the work.

Although this is all going to be happening in the brave new world of 7.1 audio, my impression from that article and from everything else I read that they will strongly support 5.1 all the way.

Ok... have I got everything right? what am I missing?

Since I'll never go to 7.1 as long as I am living in my current townhouse (there''s just no room for two more speakers), support for 5.1 was music to my years. And if what I say is right, I should be in no hurry to upgrade from my six year old Marantz SR-18! :)

Stan
 
shokhead

shokhead

Audioholic General
Clint DeBoer said:
Dolby TrueHD is the new format for the new high definition DVD formats... It is basically lossless PCM 7.1 but will be analogue-only on first generation players until HDMI 1.3 is released.

We'll write another article soon about the various formats - it seems needed.
Yep,i was just on there website and it was a good read.
 
W

W_Harding

Junior Audioholic
stanrozenfeld said:
Since I'll never go to 7.1 as long as I am living in my current townhouse (there''s just no room for two more speakers), support for 5.1 was music to my years. And if what I say is right, I should be in no hurry to upgrade ... :)
Stan
That is what I am hoping for also. I just do not have the room for two additional quality speakers. Thanks for the overview.
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
Will HDMI 1.1 support the new DD and DTS formats when they finally come out?
 
S

stanrozenfeld

Audioholic Intern
Glocksrock,

hdmi 1.1 will support the new formats only as pcm. If the player will decode and convert to pcm, then the format can be sent over hdmi 1.1, but you can't send the lossless bitstream over hdmi 1.1, plus your current receiver won't be able to decode it anyway.

Stan
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
MACCA350 said:
DTS-HD is not the only lossless format(although they'd like to think so).

Dolby TrueHD is also lossless with among other things, up to 14 channels, enhanced downmix, dynamic range control(which I couldn't live without), and metadata capabilities.

From their CES 2006 news page:

Also see their TrueHD FAQ's page.

Personally I can't see the point of 2 Lossless formats for the same movie. what a waste of space that would be:rolleyes: As if 2 new Hi-def movie formats wasn't bad enough, now they may have 2 bit-for-bit master studio quality audio tracks as well:confused: they've got rocks for brains.

cheers:)

Here we go again. Another format war or whatever. Nothing learned from history. What a waste.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
HookedOnSound said:
Anybody else getting a headache from all these new formats?

Good time to buy stock in Tylenol:D
 
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