New dedicated theater planned - Projector suggestions?

[Pete Dzwonkas]

I will be building a dedicated basement home theater in the spring. Right now I'm installing a bathroom down there and another bedroom to warm up. The room will be about 16 x 26 x 7.5 to 8 ceilings, probably a tray ceiling over the seating area with some lighting effect like fiber optics. Tiered seating with 2x6 risers, practically no light except what I control electrically. Projector will probably be out from the screeen on the ceiling about 12-14 feet to hide it before the tray effect. Was planning a fixed 16:9 screen in the 100 to 120" diagonal which leaves enough room to place the floor standers away from the side walls.

Plan on B&W 703's, SVS sub, maybe a Rotel 1067, and maybe a Denon 2910 as well for purchases. Will be a 7.1 system with 2 pair DS6's.

Read some reviews on ProjectorCentral and I am leaning toward the Sony HS51 and a DVDO HD+ combo which you can get for about $4500 total if you shop around, which I do.

I have no experience with projectors, so I'm not sure how close to the ceiling I can mount, size of screen, and whether I should add a TV for the casual watching when I'm kicked out of the other rooms in the house. I was planning on putting the seating in 2 rows allowing 6 foot for each starting in from 4 foot from the back wall. That's around 22 to 16 and then 16 to 10, or about 20 foot and 14 foot for the eyes seated in a chair. Door is behind and to the left side.

Do I need to spend a bazillion dollars to get it right or what equipment in the $4000 range will get it done right?

 

[BMXTRIX]

Projector: The Sony is a good choice, but wait just a little bit to see how the new Sharp XV-Z2000 looks. That is a 1280x720 DLP with 1200 lumen and 2500:1 contrast rating. It is the least expensive HD2+ chip projector out from any manufacturer and falls well under the $5,000+ (more often a lot more) that others charge. If you don't like the Sharp, then the Sony, Panasonic, or Sanyo are all excellent choices as far as quality goes.

Ceiling height is gonna get you somewhat because of the low ceilings, if you are doing stepped seating, this will be tight. The projector should have no problems being ceiling mounted. If you run a 92" wide by 52" tall screen (106" diagonal) the Sanyo & Sony allow you to put the projector about two feet ABOVE the top of the screen. The Panny only allows you to put it about 10 inches above the top of the screen. In a room that size though, you will want the top of the screen about 6-9 inches below the ceiling. This means ANY of the projectors will let you flush mount the projector to the ceiling.

Keep in mind you will need a ceiling mount - about 200 bucks.

Cabling can be done with custom cable, or you can push everything across on RG-6 coaxial cable. I run COAX for all my projector installs and it works very well, and the price point is excellent. DVI is the only connection you can't do that way.

If the ceiling is fixed, then run some conduit for later upgrades, etc. The Panasonic projector gives you the most choice in placement of the projector distance from the screen with about a 1:1 -> 1:2 zoom lens. So, you can put the projector, on a 92" screen anywhere from about 8-15 feet away from the screen. The other projectors won't give you that flexibility, but may still meet your needs with no problem.

While you may wish to 'hide' the projector, you have to remember that the MOST important thing to a projector is air circulation and while it is operating you either gotta feed it cool air, or you have to have it completely open on as many sides as possible to allow air flow around it. Do not encase it without airflow or it will burn up on you quickly.

As far as a second display in the room goes... That is definitely up to you. I personally use a projector in my non-light controlled living room so I use a plasma for daily viewing and the projector for movies and HD games. Lots of fun that way, but if I had a dedicated room I could keep dark and didn't plan to use it for my daily watching, (or had a budget for unlimited replacement bulbs) then I would not bother with an additional display device.

14 feet from a 92" screen is good. 20 feet is better, but on todays quality projectors you should not have a problem with HD material at 14 feet. DVDs will look so-so from any range, but all will look better than SDTV.

Sounds like a lot of fun - and a good sized room to do it in. Always want a higher ceiling though... I wonder if I can talk my contractor into giving me 12 foot ceilings in my basement? Probably not.

 

[mcwilson]

Most projectors come with mounting instructions. I had no previous experience with projectors, but had no problem with mine. I chose the InFocus SP 7205 over the BenQ8700 and a couple others that I considered. It may be a little over your budget. But you will not be disappointed. I cannot find a bad review anywhere on the web. I got mine for around $6K.

The mounting was fairly easy. (Optimal) Distance from screen depends on the size of the screen. Nominally the top of the lens should be about even with the top of the screen. I have a 110" screen. InFocus provides a mounting calculator that helps you with distances and mounting details. It was very straightforward.

Good luck with your home theatre project.

 

[Yamaman]

If your ceilings are 8 feet high unfinished, I would go with drywall. I used metal furring strips srewed on to the joists. This will level your ceiling (as each joist will never be totally level with the next- i.e. some may be slighly lower than others, so screw furring strips only on the lower ones). Then you just screw the drywall panels onto the furring strips. This will produce a level ceiling and at the same time, maximize headroom. Even with this method however, you lose about an inch, but at least it's much better than drop ceilings (which are not really the trend anymore).

I agree totally with BMXTRIX, do not hide your projector- air circulation is critical. For my HT basement, I positioned my pj right in front of a soffit which covers the air duct. My seating is directly under the soffit which works well because the head space is about a foot lower. With this configuration, the pj is out of view (more or less) during movies and at the same time, the pj is less conspicuous. If anything, this may give you another option.

As for useage, I would stick to using the pj for movie viewing and video games/sports night on only those special occasions, otherwise, you'll be coughing up $400-500 bucks (CDN) for a bulb more often than you would want. If money is no object, go crazy!

Check out InFocus as mcwilson suggested. I think even the SP5700 with
1024 x 576 native 16:9, faroudja DCDi, 1000 lumens and 1400:1 contrast ratio maybe good for you and you would stay within your budget.

Personally, I have the SP4805- its only SVGA 16:9, but I find it amazing! and the price was only $2050.00 CDN (a steel universal mount was $150.00 extra).

Good Luck! I can tell you, when everything is said and done, your going to love your basement HT. I just finished mine and I'm always giddy with joy everytime I go down there. My wife can understand me. But then, most wive's wouldn't...

Yama

 

[Pete Dzwonkas]

This is my 4th basement home theater I'm building, but first with a projector. Normally I built in a RPTV into the front wall with the bookshelves set into the wall as well. I'm trying to really move upscale here and put to use past learnings and add another layer of wow-factor.

So usually it is for movie night and Sunday football only and rarely casual TV watching.

I'll check out the other projector offerings you mentioned. I have plenty of time, probably gonna be May before I really get into it. Doing a bath down there now, then another bedroom with a small kitchenette, a train layout, a deck, and then the theater. Better buy stock in Home Depot, cuz it's gonna rise!

 

[tdenny]

I chose the BenQ8700+ over the Infocus 7205 for one reason only - I could throw a bigger image from closer. Each of the manufacturers has different specs for throw distance. As mcwilliams mentioned many of these higher end projector have features that might be more to your liking. The bulb life on my BenQ is only 2000 hours as opposed to 3000+ for most others. The Optoma H77 has lens shift capabilites which is really nice. I have a slightly sloping ceiling and getting the projector mounted in precisely the right spot was a challenge. I would suggest if you can swing the extra cost go for a projector with at least a native resolution of 1280x720 the pictue will amaze you.

Instead of buying a separate TV for when you get kicked out of the room spend it on your projector and you can run both through the same screen. A HD2+ chip DLP projector can be had for much less than $5000. I think all of those projectors can accept a DVI video input. If you are using cable (not sure about dish) you should easily be able to run both your television and your DVD player through your projector. I run my laptop on it as well and have all three hooked up using 1 cable (DVI-D) to the projector. I bought a DVI switch and it works really well.

I think someone up above mentioned projectorcentral for information - this is a great source. Ebay is a nice place to find current market prices on nearly any projector and it can also be a good place to buy one. Hope you're as pleased when you are one as I am.

Good luck.

Good luck in your theater

 

[Pete Dzwonkas]

DLP vs. LCD

Is there any preference for the Sharp XV2000 DLP at $4000 at the same resolution as the Sony HS51 at $3199 because it is a DLP unit? I am more comfortable with the Sony reliability, unaware of Sharp's reliability, and certainly would like to spend the price difference toward a good Stewart screen. Was wondering if DLP is preferred over LCD. Projector Central seems to indicate LCD proponents such as Sony are fighting back hard to make it a real contest in performance, and the HS51 seems to deliver so far.

Would the screen choices be different for each type?

 

[BMXTRIX]

Screens are becoming less of an issue compared to what they once were and many people consider Stewart to be more of a brand name instead of an actual quality upgrade. Durability of screens from Draper and Da-Lite along with quality is very similar at a more reasonable price than Stewart.

Now...

DLP is the front projection format of choice. The theoretical level of LCD blacks is finally approaching DLP levels, but DLP has had these levels for a couple of years now. The technology with theaters and DLPs is the one to beat.

Now, how much is that Sharp actually going to cost vs. the Sony is a big question... Reliability is also a very big question. Sony is not the performance leader when it comes to projectors. Keep a close eye over the next month or two on quality for the Sony projector and look for any complaints about the projector. If at all possible, view both projectors in a show room side by side or at least in one store, then another (this may not be possible though).

Projector central really is an excellent resource to keep reading through, but you will see the difference between a good review and just a "This projector is the first I've owned and it F'N ROCKS!". Obviously, quality of user reviews runs the scales and complaints are what you should look at - in whatever projector you get.

Is DLP better? Is Sony the way to go? Am I telling you to get the Sharp?
No, maybe, and definitely not.

I have a Panasonic LCD - I love it. It is 960x540 (1/4 HD) and is beautiful on a 106" DaLite screen (manual, non-tensioned). I have installed Sharp DLP's, Marantz, Runco, Sony, Sanyo... etc., etc. I think any of the new sub $4,000 projectors you will be very happy with as long as the reliability is actually there. I would definitely wait about one more month to do research on the new batch of projectors that was just released and try to check around your area for stores that may be displaying some - or willing to display one for you to see.

I bought mine, site unseen, because of www.projectorcentral.com about 1.5 years ago and I have no complaints. There were NO 1280x720LCD projectors at anything approaching a reasonable price at the time and DLP was running closer to 10 grand instead of under 4 for 1280x720. You have a lot of excellent choices and I don't think you will be unhappy with LCD or DLP. With LCD you are guaranteed no rainbow effect which makes it potentially better for you no matter what. DLP may seem more filmlike with richer colors though.

 

[LEVESQUE]

DLP is the front projection format of choice.

Wait a second there...

I did try a Sharp 12K and Marantz S3 before buying my JVC D-ILA 3 chips LCOS HX1, and my wife and I both prefered the 3 chips LCOS. Calibrated by William Phelps, the HX1 is a sight to behold.

With DLPs, you always have the chance to see rainbows (like my wife and I did on both), dithering, pixelation...

And my wife was having headaches with both high-end single chip DLPs... No problem with the 3chip LCOS design...

If it was me today, I would go with a JVC HX2 and I would send it to William Phelps for a calibration.

But this will cost you more then 4000$... but alot less then the HX2 big brother JVC HD2K or the Sony Qualia...

 

[BMXTRIX]

3 chip DLP is really the technology that leads all with no rainbow and excellent processors in good models. Pixelation and dithering is a processor function, not a matter of the DLP - a good theater DLP will not suffer from either. As well, the rainbow effect is not noticable to a lot of people with 7 segment high spin speed color wheels.

Just because it is the leading choice of most home theater enthusiasts, I tried to make it clear that it is not the ONLY choice, or necessarily the best choice. In the industry, DLP is the front projection format that leads all others for overall quality, it doesn't mean that there aren't some potential drawbacks.

But, the HX1 you listed has a MSRP of almost $13,000.00 - That is 3 to 4 times the MSRP of current 720p LCD projectors which boast higher contrast ratio and a brighter image.

I don't knock the technology of D-ILA, and while my projector with lower contrast, resolution, and brightness is still stunning, so I am sure yours is as well, I wouldn't look to hard at the technology until it catches up to where DLP has been for years, and where LCD has taken off to. The new LCDs are pretty amazing, but may not provide as much quality as the new Sharp DLP. I would not discount ANY technology without taking a look at it. But, I would want to read several accurate hands on reviews of products if I couldn't actually see the product in a showroom.

 

[Peppy]

Every pass thread and excelent info, and most had bigger pocket and better projector than mine, (X1 Infocus) so it's no way I can give better advice that you already receive.....except for the one who said to use metal framing. If you build your room in the basement, do not use metal framing. If you have some humidity or just a little bit of water damage for any reason they will rust. Metal framing are not very strong, they rust easly and their is praticly no cost saving using them. Ask a pro like Mike Holmes at HGTV http://www.hgtv.ca/ .

Good luck

 

[Pete Dzwonkas]

Thanks guys. I found a local dealer who sells the new Sharp unit and may go see it soon. Where can you find reliability data other than user reviews? I have zero experience with Sharp products and SOny has never failed me yet. Not a Sony fan by any stretch, but $800 difference is quite a bit in price (I used One Call as a comparator). Complete light control in the room, which gain for the LCD and the DLP would I chose?

 

[BMXTRIX]

Reviews are about it for projector quality. Consumer reviews when they actually own the product.

My gripes with some projectors: Some are very loud. Runco ('top of the line') is very distracting in a home theater.
Some seem way over priced for the value you get - The nice Sharps, Runco, and Marantz all have seemed seriously over price in my opinion.
Some have serious reliability issues, especially for the cash - READ: RUNCO

In the end, just read the review of the projector you want and read reviews of other home theater projectors by the same manufacturer to see if they have a history of quality or some issues internally. Look for service complaints if there are any and check the warranty if there are concerns.

Are you asking about what level of gain to look for in a screen for your projector?

 

[Pete Dzwonkas]

Yes, the screen. I read a review of screens from another chat site and the SilverStar by Vutec kicked butt over the Grayhawk and a DaLite unit. Very expensive though and with very high gain >3.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would be interested in reading that review...

Gain is achieved by reflecting light back to viewers in a narrower cone than it originally came out of the projector. What this usually results in is a narrower field of vision than a lower gain screen. What this boils down to is that when viewing anything on the screen, your viewing angle to the center of the screen is significantly different than your viewing angle to the edge of the screen and it actually gets brighter or darker towards the edges depending on screen design... usually darker though.

The viewing cone that is created by high-gain screens is definitely something to be wary of and most home theaters, especially dedicated home theaters can get by fine with lower gain (sub 1.6 - preferably 1.0) screens. The low gain screens will provide a near uniform image from edge to edge and will be the most pleasing to watch, but demands the most light control in the room.

For lights of course you should not use any lighting that will shine directly on the screen when the projector is in use. Recessed lighting (down lights) work nicely if you want light in the room, preferably at the back of the room - maybe directly over where seating will be. That way someone can read the newspaper and still have the projector on and no real problems viewing it at all.

 

[Pete Dzwonkas]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?threadid=262466

Firehawk, not grayhawk, sorry.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Yeah - that's what you want right there:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48655&item=5739562089&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

That's 2 grand... which to me seems about one grand more than I will be spending on a tab tensioned motorized screen. But, I would be jealous of anyone with it.

Reviews seem really good though and if it is within your means and you want a permanently installed screen (which I recommend when possible) then it seems like a very good screen to get.

 

[Pete Dzwonkas]

Sharp XV2000 compared to Sony HS51

I did it. I went to audition the Sharp XV2000 at a local HT independent shop yesterday. I wanted to see if this thing was really as good as some were implying. It gets better, the HT room it was in also had a Sony HS51 right underneath it on the rack for A-B comparisons. I watched Spiderman 2 and Discovery HD channel and the screen was a Draper gray-something 110"-ish.

I have to say that both were detailed to the same degree. I saw some graininess on both. Color was good on both. The rep said nothing in the store gets calibrated. Just removed from the box and placed in the demo because they have no in-house tech who can do this.

What sold me on the Sharp, and I am definitely going to purchase one in March, was the brightness. The Sharp unit was decidely brighter and we A-B'd still shots concentrating on certain details like knuckles or hair or face features and the details were even, but the Sharp was very much brighter. If I threw a number at it, I'd say 25 to 30% brighter.

Well worth the time it took to stop in and do the demo and the rep was extremely accomodating. I went into another set-up room more the size of my proposed HT and it had the XV12000 - wow, even better on a 120" screen with the lights on.

Anyways, thanks to BMXTRX for continually reminding me to consider the Sharp, because that will be my purchase. BTW, the rep said all the Sony's are sold before they hit the shelf (pre-sold) and of the 6 Sharps, 2 are left since they came in. Skip the Sony, get the Sharp. Very nice for $3997.

And that Vutec is what I want to get. Thanks for the link.

 

[BMXTRIX]

When you get the Sharp, put a review up on ProjectorCentral.com The single most valuable tool you can do is copy and paste what you wrote above and add more detail. I am a big fan of my LCD projector, but I think DLP has a slight edge in video. Sharp has been a forerunner in DLP video projectors so I am psyched for you... and a little jealous.

The head to head comparison is what matters most though. If it's 25% more, do you get something for it or not? It sounds to me like you definitely get some more for it and that value is there. The image and colors matter a lot to buyers, but the value compared to other projectors is critical. So, comparing it directly to the Sony or one of the other new breed LCDs is what will steer others to a very good projector.

Congrats... and if you get the VuTec let me know how that looks. I can't use it in my family room, but in my basement I may eventually need something.