New Basement HT missing bass

[letour93]

need some help setting up my new HT in the basement....the big problem is setting up my sub....i was concerned from the beginning that I would not be able to recreate that deep bass that i have loved for years in my main floor HT...anyhow can deep bass be recreated using subs in a basement HT with a concrete floor that was built up using a dricore product then laminate flooring on top...all the walls and ceiling are drywalled and have been insulated using sound proof insulation...the room is quite large 24'X30' with 7' ceilings...I moved my sub from upstairs (paradigm PW2200) down and as I thought getting some bass but just not the same feeling...would a larger sub help with this problem? or tactile transducers? My biggest question to everyone here before I spend the money is can you achieve a deep bass feel...in a cement cave?

thanks in advance

 

[j_garcia]

Tactile transducers, AND a bigger sub maybe.... Concrete rooms are tough to to get good bass in, as you have already confirmed. Did you recalibrate the sub relative to the new room?

 

[jaxvon]

If you need some insane HT bass, I'd suggest tactile transducers on the seating, as well as a pair of subs from SVS.

For your application, check out a pair of CS+ 16-46 subs. For $1625 plus shipping, you get the necessary cable, two subs with a 16Hz tuning, and a 500w x2 amp. You shouldn't have problems energizing your HT.

As for tactiles, check out part numbers 299-027 and 299-028 at Parts Express. They even have photos of installations. With the tactiles, you'll need a small-wattage multi-channel amp (I assume you're using multiple chairs for seating).

 

[letour93]

Thanks for the advice....just got off the phone with two suppliers one is telling me to go with the Paradigm Servo 15 which retails for $1600 canadian...the company that installed the HT is telling me I should match the M&K 880's with the M&K MX350 for $2700...has anyone heard or should i say felt either one....just wondering

 

[jaxvon]

Oh..you're in Canada...well that changes things. You'll get reamed on SVS products when they cross the border.

Still, they're good stuff...

 

[newfmp3]

H S U

Need I say more

And I am in Canada as well. Got mine from Supertek in OT. Free shipping.

I built my theater downstairs as well. I got the hsu sub, see sig, and had it upstairs in a 11x14 room while constructing downstairs. The sub was too much for upstairs, which I knew it would be. Just a touch of volume and things were falling off walls literally.....woman not happy...oops.

Now, downstairs, I installed a insulated subfloor system, and all my walls are drywall, insulated as well, and I got the thickest underlay I could find, and the thickest carpet I could get. There was no way I was putting laminate in a basement with concrete and it being the type of room it was. I have laminate in the basement bar area, and I can pretend to be Tarzan with the echo effects in there.

When I ran my sub cables in wall before hand, I ran them in 3 spots in totally different locations in the room. One on each wall opposite of the couch. Best thing i ever did. The first two area's I had hope to place the sub didn't work out at all. Bass was flat, and I couldn't really "feel it" as much as I hoped without turning the sub WAAAAY up. Then I found the sweet spot under the screen where ironically I was hoping it wouldn't go there. The HSU is very tall. But all of a sudden the thing came alive. It's also the outside wall. I just demoed the system to the woman's family an hour ago, and her father was like....my shirt actually moves with the bass! I was playing LOTR ROTK during the battle with the large elephant things.

I never tried a 2200 from paradigm. To me they just didn't have the best reviews for the price.

Try HSU. There are Canadian dealers, if you need an email pm me. Also try the HSU forums as they have Canadian links. No duties or anything, just a normal purchase. I actually got free shipping as well.

Dricore is a sub floor system is it not? I think it is insulated as well? I am using a Subflor Advance system. That is how it is spelled. Amazingly I do feel a great deal of bass through it, but if I had bought a smaller sub I think it would have been much different. Upstairs, the sub volume on 1 was overkill. Downstairs I have it at half, and the NAD set to +1 and I l like really hard bass.

 

[3db]

Seating postion relative to your sub is the issue, not the sub itself

need some help setting up my new HT in the basement....the big problem is setting up my sub....i was concerned from the beginning that I would not be able to recreate that deep bass that i have loved for years in my main floor HT...anyhow can deep bass be recreated using subs in a basement HT with a concrete floor that was built up using a dricore product then laminate flooring on top...all the walls and ceiling are drywalled and have been insulated using sound proof insulation...the room is quite large 24'X30' with 7' ceilings...I moved my sub from upstairs (paradigm PW2200) down and as I thought getting some bass but just not the same feeling...would a larger sub help with this problem? or tactile transducers? My biggest question to everyone here before I spend the money is can you achieve a deep bass feel...in a cement cave?

thanks in advance

I'm more concerned about the laminate flloor and reflections of the walls making the room sound too alive. Have you adressed that issue yet?

 

[letour93]

Thanks again to all that replied...newfmp3 I will look into your suggestions...I would have also liked a nice thick carpet but my allergies would have killed me...can't even walk into a carpet shop...I will look into the HSU
How large is your basement theatre area? 3db I have one large area rug down and a new couch..that is all at this point...was looking at doing some wall treatments to help but at this point the sound is not at least I don't think so "too alive" just missing the bass

Thanks again everyone....

 

[jaxvon]

I just had an epiphany. Get a test tone disc and play some test tones on your subwoofer. Try different frequencies. Get up and walk around the room. I'll bet that you run into areas with TONS of bass, and some with almost nothing. I suspect that you have your seating in a null, so you're getting almost no bass. The concrete walls are very effective at creating room resonances.

If this is the case, then you just need to play with the positioning of your seating and your subwoofer.

 

[andre3k]

In a setup like this I would go for dual 12 inch subs. With rooms dimensions like that you are gonna have to move a lot of air to get bass that you can feel. I cant comment much about the tactile transducers, but I know I dont want a vibrating couch. As far as which sub to choose, just pick one. HSU, SVS (my personal choice, cuz I have one), Velodyne, they are all good, and with 2 it will be even better.

 

[mkossler]

First, I agree with Jaxvon (that seems to happen a lot around here ) - You should play a good LF tone, and work your way around the listening area. The one thing I'd add is, first place your existing sub in your listening position. Then do the walk around, focusing on the areas where it will be acceptable to place a sub. Wherever you feel the most effect, is where you want to place the sub. This may very well obviate the need for another sub.

If you still want more response, then I second the tactile transducer and more powerful sub solution. The transducer will make up for the lack of conduction of ultra-low frequency caused by the damping effect of the concrete, but it will not provide the oomph in the chest you will want at the higher 35-45Hz range. If you have a larger listening area than a sofa, you can consider building a short riser, say 8" tall, and mounting a buttkicker to the center of the riser. If you drive the buttkicker with a buttkicker amplifier (rated at 1500 watts and can drive several buttkickers if needed), it will be sufficient for any furniture you place on the riser.

The high-powered sub choice is a toss-up, and really depends on what you can get as the best bang-for-your-buck. SVS and HSU are outstanding (I have an SVS, personally), but as some have already noted, the SVS becomes questionable for Canada from a cost-effectiveness perspective when taxes and tariffs are added to the equation. The Axiom EP500 and EP600, from a Canadian manufacturer, would also be outstanding if pricey choices. All of these recommendations, I have heard personally and are rock-your-world solutions.

Some here like the Cadence X-sub, which I know nothing of.

Good luck, and have fun!

Cheers,

Matty K.

 

[RJB]

For what it's worth...

It sounds like your basement is very similar to mine ( 30L X 13W ). All double drywall with insulation, I also used the dricore product on the concrete before the floor finishing. In my case I had 8lb underlay & 65oz carpet installed rather than laminate.

Anywho...prior to the carpet being installed I set up the sound system ( see my signature info ) just to hear how everything sounded. The difference before & after the carpet was installed was amazing! Much more smooth bass with the carpet...it could be felt as well as heard. The same went for the overall sound.

You may want to consider some thick area rugs over certain parts of the laminate along with other suggestions from this thread.

However you sort things out I'm sure you will have ultimate enjoyment when you're done!

 

[newfmp3]

the test tone thing is a good idea. HSU's web page has some free downloadable mp3's u can try

 

[krzywica]

I would take Jaxvon's advice and try a dvd like Avia or Digital Video Essentials. I have the Avia calibration disc and it works wonders for sub placement. I have lived in 4 different houses in the last year (military) and have had the same system with similar room dimensions in each house. You would not believe how much of a difference slight differences in architecture or just building materials have on speaker placement, especially subwoofer placement.

Before you go out and drop a wad on new stuff get a test dvd or cd and tinker around with placement.

The best advice I can give you is out of an article I read a while back. Place youre sub at your normal listening (right where your couch or chair would be). Play bass heavy material rap or a test disc. Now walk around the room and where the bass is the strongest is where you should place your sub. It's that simple!

 

[letour93]

Thanks again to everyone that has responded to the post...it is great to know that there is help out there...I just find with alot of the shops there first suggestion is always what makes more sense for them ie. "buy a bigger sub" anyhow I will spend this weekend trying to fine tune the placement of the sub and I will let everyone know how it goes....can anyone make a suggestion regarding sub cables...do you need to spend top dollars on cabling?

thanks once again

 

[jaxvon]

No need to spend top dollar on cabling. Just get something well constructed that fits the specifications its designed for. Acoustic Research (available basically everywhere) is a fine choice. If you really want the best though, check out Blue Jeans. Aside from their speaker cable prices (which are high), they have reasonable price points for broadcast quality cable. This is pro-level, studio-quality cabling.