Need some AV Reciever advice

[ArcaneArchitect]

Hi guys I currently have an HTR-6130, its an older 500 Watt receiver I bought back in 2009. It came with 5 speakers and a subwoofer. My biggest gripe with the system is that it only does HDMI video passthrough, but doesn't actually pick up the sound. So I'm looking to upgrade to a new receiver and keep the speakers that came with my 6130.
Things I would like the new receiver to have:
A GUI of some kind for setup.
support 4k HDMI+audio
Optical in (atleast 1)
perhaps wireless and bluetooth.

I'm a novice with sound stuff though, so any help will be awesome. Generally speaking I cant say I've ever been 100% satisfied with the sound, as mid tones have sounded a bit tinny and the base can completely overpower sometimes. Granted information wasnt as readily available when I first bought it.
One other thing I noticed way late apparently is that my speakers all seem to be using 22 gauge cable? The copper part measured about 0.6mm with calipers so its quite thin. And believe the speakers are 6 Ohm speakers, max cabling distance is 10~15 feet.

Thanks for your time

Edit:
Upon some thinking, I'm currently living in a relatively small space and i wouldn't mind looking for a completely different solution. I am aware of sound bars being pretty decent these days and wouldn't be opposed to hearing opinions on those as well.

 

[Mark of Cenla]

You may just need better speakers. If you can, go out and listen to some other speakers and report back here. Trust your ears. Peace and goodwill.

 

[bridge]

I just picked up the Denon 4300, hooking it up tomorrow.
4K, 3d, bluetooth, 9 powered channels, 8 HDMI's in, ethernet / wifi, etc. I'm excited about this

 

[lovinthehd]

Wow quite an upgrade. I also would have gone for better speakers or are they up next?

 

[ArcaneArchitect]

Op here, I havent updraded yet haha. That looks like a sweet deal bridge I'll have to look into that.

Mark - part of the reason I was wanting to upgrade the reciever was due to it missing HDMI audio, its just a switch. I may be able to find a work around however. My TV has Optical out, and I may be able to Optical wire the sound back into the reciever after its been passed through TV. I'll test tonight or tomorrow hopefully. Will report back on what I find at some point.

lovinthehd - when buying speakers any particular specs I should be looking for? Aside from actually auditing them in store? I'm quite noob when it comes to this, is higher Ohm speakers preferable? I have a very vague understanding of Ohms and wattage, but it seems that a higher Ohms value requires less power?

 

[lovinthehd]

You might use this table to determine gauge for your speaker wire runs (and peruse the other articles he's got, very informative about speaker wire). Try this article on speaker specifications.

 

[ArcaneArchitect]

You might use this table to determine gauge for your speaker wire runs (and peruse the other articles he's got, very informative about speaker wire). Try this article on speaker specifications.

Thanks lovinthehd. The second link was much easier to understand. Though I must admit alot of that still flies right over my head. I feel as though my speakers and system aren't terrible, and just need proper calibration which I've probably never done correctly.

These are my speakers on this page its got its specs they end in BLF BLS and BLC. Ignore the receiver on the page as mine is the HTR - 6130
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-yht-591-htib-features-connections

The subwoofer is here:
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/speaker-systems/subwoofers/yst-fsw050_black__u/

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks lovinthehd. The second link was much easier to understand. Though I must admit alot of that still flies right over my head. I feel as though my speakers and system aren't terrible, and just need proper calibration which I've probably never done correctly.

These are my speakers on this page its got its specs they end in BLF BLS and BLC. Ignore the receiver on the page as mine is the HTR - 6130
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-yht-591-htib-features-connections

The subwoofer is here:
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/speaker-systems/subwoofers/yst-fsw050_black__u/

The article on speaker specs was easier to understand than a simple wire table? I'm missing something here? In any case it takes a while to learn the terminology and how stuff works so take some time to do some reading, the forum is a good place to start (lots of informative how-stuff works type articles around if you look).

Your speakers and sub (hard to even call it a sub, more a mid bass module) are just lightweight HTIB fare. Your speakers are....small. If you're in a very small room they may sound fine, but would struggle in a larger space, just physics of the small drivers the speakers utilize. All calibration does it set proper level and delay at your listening position and perhaps set it up with standard reference volume (like that used in movies).

The biggest impact on the sound are your speakers and your room; the receiver not so much (altho its nice to have features you want/need for overall use).

 

[ArcaneArchitect]

The article on speaker specs was easier to understand than a simple wire table? I'm missing something here? In any case it takes a while to learn the terminology and how stuff works so take some time to do some reading, the forum is a good place to start (lots of informative how-stuff works type articles around if you look).

Your speakers and sub (hard to even call it a sub, more a mid bass module) are just lightweight HTIB fare. Your speakers are....small. If you're in a very small room they may sound fine, but would struggle in a larger space, just physics of the small drivers the speakers utilize. All calibration does it set proper level and delay at your listening position and perhaps set it up with standard reference volume (like that used in movies).

The biggest impact on the sound are your speakers and your room; the receiver not so much (altho its nice to have features you want/need for overall use).

Ah, I see what you mean. I honestly never considered my speakers small haha. I will have to reassess them. The speaker wire/distance link was very clear. Sorry about that, I just tried reading the rest of the page and ended up confused lol.

I noticed that my speakers are lower impedance than my Reciever. Reciever output impedance is 8 Ohm with 135 wattt per channel. While my speakers sit around 6 Ohms, with nominal input being 30~40 Watts for the different speakers. I feel as though I should have had a realization of sorts, but this is still new to me. Were my speakers mismatched from the get go? What does this mean?

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry, yes, they're small as speakers go. 2.25" woofers are pretty small....

Your receiver also has 6ohm ratings, look in the manual. Amps aren't just one impedance, just as speakers aren't. Lower impedance speakers will put more demand on an amp, and not all receiver amps are suited to very low impedances (4 ohm and below). Even if a receiver doesn't state a 4ohm rating that doesn't mean it won't work with 4ohm speakers, but will probably be limited to lower volume levels without sending the receiver into self-protection mode.

What do you mean nominal input for the speakers? There's nominal impedance ratings for speakers but not sure what nominal input would be....

 

[ArcaneArchitect]

I think I was figuring thats what their power requirement was. Its listed on the last page of the speaker sets manual.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/340884/Yamaha-Ns-Ap8805.html?page=8#manual

This is a dumb question but what is the best way to audition speakers? Is bringing my phone with media good enough for that, would that end up getting hooked through a 3.5mm?

Also, would I be looking for larger diameter woofers as a rule of thumb?

 

[lovinthehd]

I think I was figuring thats what their power requirement was. Its listed on the last page of the speaker sets manual.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/340884/Yamaha-Ns-Ap8805.html?page=8#manual

This is a dumb question but what is the best way to audition speakers? Is bringing my phone with media good enough for that, would that end up getting hooked through a 3.5mm?

Also, would I be looking for larger diameter woofers as a rule of thumb?

Thanks I think what they mean by nominal is max continuous power which isn't all that useful. Use an spl calculator with the sensitivity ratings to see how that interrelates with power. They should be quite loud at 30-40 watts, possibly sounding bad at that point. There are higher sensitivity speakers that would get louder with less power....hard up against Hoffman's iron law with the small speakers.

I prefer to audition in the environment they will be used in so in home trials IMO are the way to go rather than visiting dealer showrooms (keep in mind the room the speakers are used in are a huge influence).

If you do go shopping at B&Ms take a music source you're familiar with; either burn a cd or put files on your phone, but with your phone if it doesn't have a digital output then with the analog output (3.5mm) the phone's dac is in play and that may or may not be a good thing.

 

[ArcaneArchitect]

Man, that link is awesome. That actually makes so much sense now. Thanks for that. I don't know why but the speaker's physical size itself wasn't something I was taking into consideration.

My phone is relatively new, so it probably does digital output. In theory it should be connectable to receivers that have USB. I'll be checking out some equipment probably today. I'm not sure I'm gonna stick with the same system though because I do need to upgrade to something that gives me a little bit more ease of use when it comes to devices and connectivity, and my current listening space is quite limited.

Let me ask another dumb question in trying to understand watts and ohms. But Headphones are easier to drive than large speakers I would assume right? But for some reason they have many more times more impedance than large speakers large ones being at like 4 ohms, while headphones are in the 30+ range. Wouldn't this mean that headphones are harder to drive?

 

[lovinthehd]

You're welcome, nice tool (not perfect but decent) to see the interplay with distance, power and speaker sensitivity.

My phone doesn't do the mass usb storage device thing to easily do music via usb (at least not without rooting the phone). I use an app called bubbleupnp to stream it digitally via wifi to my receivers (or bluray players depending on room/gear). There's also the HDMI/MHL type connection, many new receivers have that option if your phone does.

Not a headphone guy but higher impedance is an easier load for speakers on the amplifier, its the lower impedance that is harder on an amplifier. Large speakers come in a variety of impedance flavors....in general try to get your head around Ohm's law, that might help.