Need receiver opinions and suggestions

[Fenix]

Hello all. I'm pretty much a surround n00b and am looking into getting my first system. It may be a couple of months or so before I actually purchase it but I'm starting my research now.

Right now my wife and I live in a town home but are looking for a house (great opportunity to buy right now), thus I am waiting until we get the house to get everything.

Here are the components being hooked to it:

TV: Sony KDL 46V4100 (46" Widescreen LCD 60Hz)
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S350 (Using HDMI Connection)
VCR: yeah we still have a couple of vhs (Composite Video)
XBox 360: (HDMI)
Nintendo Wii: (Component Video)
Laptop: (VGA, there is a connector on the back of the TV)
Desktop: (HDMI)

All components except for the computers will be hooked to the receiver.

Here's my list of receivers that I have been looking at:

Yamaha RX-V765
Onkyo TX-SR607
Denon AVR-1909
Marantz SR5003
Pioneer Elite VSX-01TXH
Pioneer VSX-1019AH
Sony STR-DA2400ES
Harmon Kardon AVR354

The main things that I was looking for in a receiver was the ability to have the receiver accept audio through HDMI and to upconvert the analog video inputs and output them through the HDMI (therefore only 1 connection to the TV). My upper price limit is around $800.

Eventually I will be posting about speakers, but I feel that it is best to get the receiver first so that when I start looking into speakers I can hook them up to my receiver and see how they sound (I've been reading some of the other posts). Basically I want good clean sound and some great bass (which will come when I pair it with good speakers and a sub), I love to feel the kick of bass to music, games, and movies. When I'm all done I will have a 5.1 system (only 7.1 receivers seem to have the options that I want, but one day I will buy more speakers and make it 7.1). I'm looking to spend around $800 total for the speakers and sub (perhaps a little more if I need to).

Thank you ahead of time for all of your suggestions.

 

[jinjuku]

The Denon and Onkyo would be right off of my list for two reasons: No 8 channel external input and no 8 channel external out put.

The Pioneer VSX-1019AH is out. No pre-out and only 5.1 analog in (not a big deal with PCM over HDMI) but it's the principal that counts.

The Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Sony ES, HK, yammy are very close in features. I would say the Pioneer Elite looks the most flexible and has a great price point of $500, the H&K is around $600, The Sony ES is around $550, and the Marantz is around $700, the Yammy is around $600. Look at what video processors they have and what DACs they use.

If it was my $$ I would be looking at the Elite or the H&K.

 

[Exit]

If you are looking for a 5.1 speaker system for less than $800, I recommend the EMP HTP-351 5.1 system at the audioholics store for $489. The subwoofer is good, as are the other speakers. The system can fill a large room well and medium to smaller rooms well also. The system price is much lower cost than the speakers priced separately or their RBH equivalents. The regular system price is $1319 at the AH store.

http://store.audioholics.com/product/1866/17/emp-htp-351-5-1-speaker-system

This system also sounds extremely well balanced with an Onkyo TX-SR606 which is available at a good discount refurbished at the Onkyo store for $349. (They sell out fast so you may have to watch for availability.) The Audyssey equalization feature makes setup very easy and gives a good balanced sound in your particular room.

http://www.shoponkyo.com/products.cfm?group_id=1&subcat=Receiver

Of course you can never have too much power so an upscale receiver would also work well, but I would get one with Audyssey equalization.

 

[jinjuku]

This system also sounds extremely well balanced with an Onkyo TX-SR606 which is available at a good discount refurbished at the Onkyo store for $349. (They sell out fast so you may have to watch for availability.) The Audyssey equalization feature makes setup very easy and gives a good balanced sound in your particular room.

http://www.shoponkyo.com/products.cfm?group_id=1&subcat=Receiver

Of course you can never have too much power so an upscale receiver would also work well, but I would get one with Audyssey equalization.

Good idea on the TX-SR606. The only thing it can't do from reading the specs is drive external amplifiers.

What are your actual needs on a receiver? Generally spending $800 on a receiver and then another $800 on speakers isn't the golden ratio. Usually it is a 3:1 (speakers to receiver).

Going with the Onkyo puts another $150-$250 in your budget for speakers. In a HT setup that would be a bigger amp or upgraded center channel most likely. Speakers will make the biggest net positive gain in SQ (sound quality).

 

[lsiberian]

Hello all. I'm pretty much a surround n00b and am looking into getting my first system. It may be a couple of months or so before I actually purchase it but I'm starting my research now.

Right now my wife and I live in a town home but are looking for a house (great opportunity to buy right now), thus I am waiting until we get the house to get everything.

Here are the components being hooked to it:

TV: Sony KDL 46V4100 (46" Widescreen LCD 60Hz)
Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S350 (Using HDMI Connection)
VCR: yeah we still have a couple of vhs (Composite Video)
XBox 360: (HDMI)
Nintendo Wii: (Component Video)
Laptop: (VGA, there is a connector on the back of the TV)
Desktop: (HDMI)

All components except for the computers will be hooked to the receiver.

Here's my list of receivers that I have been looking at:

Yamaha RX-V765
Onkyo TX-SR607
Denon AVR-1909
Marantz SR5003
Pioneer Elite VSX-01TXH
Pioneer VSX-1019AH
Sony STR-DA2400ES
Harmon Kardon AVR354

The main things that I was looking for in a receiver was the ability to have the receiver accept audio through HDMI and to upconvert the analog video inputs and output them through the HDMI (therefore only 1 connection to the TV). My upper price limit is around $800.

Eventually I will be posting about speakers, but I feel that it is best to get the receiver first so that when I start looking into speakers I can hook them up to my receiver and see how they sound (I've been reading some of the other posts). Basically I want good clean sound and some great bass (which will come when I pair it with good speakers and a sub), I love to feel the kick of bass to music, games, and movies. When I'm all done I will have a 5.1 system (only 7.1 receivers seem to have the options that I want, but one day I will buy more speakers and make it 7.1). I'm looking to spend around $800 total for the speakers and sub (perhaps a little more if I need to).

Thank you ahead of time for all of your suggestions.

This is a case where I must ask how much you plan to spend on your future speakers.

I think you are probably discipline enough to do this the right way. For 800 dollars you can much better receivers. I suggest you pick up a 705 of accessories4less or amazon. It's an amazing receiver with most of the bells & whistles.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If it was my $$ I would be looking at the Elite or the H&K.

I would pick HK.

 

[bandphan]

I'd still say pick the speakers first to make sure the avr is able to drive them.

 

[Fenix]

I'll take some time to research the suggestions so far then post back, but I did want to answer the last question really quickly.

The reason that I am going with the AVR first is due to reading an article that was posted here (I can't remember off the top of my head who wrote it) that basically stated that if you want to find the speakers that work best for you, you need to bring them to your listening environment and try them there. That way you can know exactly how they will sound and how close they are to producing real and natural sounds.

 

[Lordoftherings]

I suggest you pick up a 705 of accessories4less or amazon. It's an amazing receiver with most of the bells & whistles.

+1 --> And it is less than $440, at accessories4less (refurb).

 

[Fenix]

I have looked into the 606 and the 705 and both have the basics of what I am looking for (Thank you for the suggestions). What do you guys think overall on refurbished/reconditioned products? Usually with electronics I have avoided them due to the fact that they are products that have had issues in the past (which would make me think that they are more likely to have more issues), and I enjoy my electronics.

It seems that there are fewer and fewer 5.1 receivers out there, and just about none if them with the technologies that I am looking for, so that is why I have been looking at 7.x receivers. I will start it at a 5.1 setup, but can easily buy an extra pair of speakers later to get full use out of it.

Overall on the whole setup I am looking to spend a total of $1500-$2000 (I would prefer to keep it closer to the lower end, but for quality and clarity I am willing to pay the extra)

I am still going to try to look up what DACs and Video converters these use to try and compare them (I have a spreadsheet that I have created to compare these units).

If you think of anything else, please share. Also if you guys think it's OK to go with a refurb, then I perhaps can get an even better receiver.

Thank You again for all of your replies and help to an HT n00b.

P.S. I should probably remind you that I may not be purchasing the Receiver for another couple of months (once we get a house). Hopefully my "Toy" fund does not need to be tapped into to help us purchase the house, otherwise it could take longer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

if you want to find the speakers that work best for you, you need to bring them to your listening environment and try them there.

Absolutely true.

You have to hear them in your own room.

I wish more dealers would offer this option of letting their customers try out the speakers in their own homes.

 

[Davemcc]

The reason that I am going with the AVR first is due to reading an article that was posted here (I can't remember off the top of my head who wrote it) that basically stated that if you want to find the speakers that work best for you, you need to bring them to your listening environment and try them there. That way you can know exactly how they will sound and how close they are to producing real and natural sounds.

The only problem with buying the receiver first is that you may fall in love with a set of speakers that your amp is incapable of driving to the levels that your room or listening habits demand. It happened to me...it can happen to anybody.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi,

So you are looking at a good receiver and also at a good set of speakers for about a total of $1,600.

Here's something that you might be very interested in;
Check this out: http://hometheatermag.com/hometheaterinabox/onkyo_ht-s9100thx_integrated_system/

With the money left over, get an SVS PB12-NSD sub for only $569.
Check it out: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

Total cost (with a discount on the Onkyo full system) = $1,500 or less.

Bob

 

[lexvid]

Desktop: (HDMI)

Here's my list of receivers that I have been looking at:

Yamaha RX-V765
Onkyo TX-SR607
Denon AVR-1909
Marantz SR5003
Pioneer Elite VSX-01TXH
Pioneer VSX-1019AH
Sony STR-DA2400ES
Harmon Kardon AVR354

Great comments so far. Unless you really need 8 ch. capabilities, the Denon 1909 will serve your needs as well as any other. I'm quite happy with the 789 version (similar to the 1909) I bought mine 2 months ago. Keep in mind, set-up can be a hassle for anyone not familiar with Denon products. Although the Onkyo is great value for the money, it doesn't handle video output as well as some. I have heard good things about the Pioneer Elite as well.

I think you are well served to audition speakers after purchasing your receiver. Good luck with your decision and Keep us posted.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Refurbs are just fine.

Hi Fenix,

Refurb receivers are just perfectly fine if they are purchased from a good reputable place like accessories4less. They are more often just returns, and they don't have a single scrath, and they are updated to the latest firmware.
They look brand new, and they still have a warranty.
And often, more people have more problems with brand new receivers than reconditioned ones. Because the reconditioned ones have been checked and updated, not so much with the brand new ones.

So, feel confident about refurb receivers, as long that they are purchased from a reputable place. They are a genuine bargain too, saving you a good chunk of money in many circumstances (up to 60% +).

Cheers,

Bob

 

[bandphan]

The only problem with buying the receiver first is that you may fall in love with a set of speakers that your amp is incapable of driving to the levels that your room or listening habits demand. It happened to me...it can happen to anybody.

Great comments so far. Unless you really need 8 ch. capabilities, the Denon 1909 will serve your needs as well as any other. I'm quite happy with the 789 version (similar to the 1909) I bought mine 2 months ago. Keep in mind, set-up can be a hassle for anyone not familiar with Denon products. Although the Onkyo is great value for the money, it doesn't handle video output as well as some. I have heard good things about the Pioneer Elite as well.

I think you are well served to audition speakers after purchasing your receiver. Good luck with your decision and Keep us posted.

so what happens when he falls in love with an 85db 1w/m 4ohm speakers, and none of the avrs can drive them to acceptable levels without issues? Dave is speaking from experience, so id take that advice

 

[Fenix]

I guess it may be an endless loop. How can I know how speakers sound without an AVR, and how will I be able to choose an AVR if I don't know what speakers it will drive yet??

Since both are a limiting factor, I will have to figure out which one will decide the limit of the other.

My assumption would be that better receivers will be able to drive the 4 ohm speakers (since 8 ohm seems to be the norm), but on the other hand I may have more choices with 8 ohm speakers.

Also a receiver that drives 4 ohm speakers may be more expensive, and on that same note 4 ohm speakers may be more expensive themselves as well. Maybe that won't appeal to someone like me since my system seems to be a budget type system.

Oh the decisions. Good thing I probably have a couple to few months to get this little predicament figured out.

Again thanks for all of your suggestions and ideas, please keep them coming if you think of something else.

 

[Lordoftherings]

That's why you should pick your speakers first.

And then we can help you much better with your receiver and what will be an excellent match.

* Always shop for speakers first, listen to a lot of them, and pick the ones that you like their sound. * Bring some favorite CDs at the store, and take your time, check for vocals (full, clear, distinct, rich, natural, realist), then instruments like piano, acoustic bass, flutes, trumpets, saxophones, acoustic guitars... Look for good clarity, imaging, soundstage, spaciousness, bass control, natural tones, no emphasis, neutrality, holography, sweetness, pleasantness, smoothness, and all those things that you like in life...

Then after you're done, come back, and we will help you choosing the right receiver.

How's that sounds?

Bob

 

[Davemcc]

Receivers have far less impact on sound quality than speakers. That's why the focus should be on speakers and not limited by receiver choice. If you should decide on easy to drive speakers, rest easy. Processing and amplification can be had relatively inexpensively. But if you choose harder to drive speakers, you have a choice between a higher end receiver or a receiver with preouts to drive a separate amp. It's not "that" big a deal, as long as you know what you need when you go receiver shopping.

The other problem is that some of the best sounding speakers are low impedence, low sensitivity. Once you start listening to speakers and find the ones you like, you don't want to have to pass on them because of the receiver you picked.

 

[PENG]

I guess it may be an endless loop. How can I know how speakers sound without an AVR, and how will I be able to choose an AVR if I don't know what speakers it will drive yet??

It does not has to be an endless loop. You can visit as many audio stores as you wish and listen to all sorts of speakers. Just make sure you have the demo done using the same amplifier, level match if possible (may be bring a sound meter) and have the speakers compared placed in roughly the same locations.

Since both are a limiting factor, I will have to figure out which one will decide the limit of the other.

In most cases, speakers and room acoustics are the two most important factors. Receivers in the price range (your mentioned $800) you are considering will have similar sound quality as long as they are powerful enough for your applications.

My assumption would be that better receivers will be able to drive the 4 ohm speakers (since 8 ohm seems to be the norm), but on the other hand I may have more choices with 8 ohm speakers.

No $800 receivers will be able to drive 4 ohm speakers in a 5.1 or 7.1 system unless the system is in a small room and you don't listen loud (say <85 dB. Many of the low end HT systems have low power receivers and 4 to 6 ohm speakers packaged, but they are intended for smaller rooms and not suitable for serious music listening. When cranked, those speakers will sound so bad that they force you to turn the volume down before damages are done, it is a fail safe system.

Also a receiver that drives 4 ohm speakers may be more expensive, and on that same note 4 ohm speakers may be more expensive themselves as well. Maybe that won't appeal to someone like me since my system seems to be a budget type system.

Very few receivers can do well with 4 ohm speakers regardless of price.