Need more power & better sound!

[dcwhitney2]

I have been around audio for years - wouldn't rate my knowledge as "audiophile" but and not audio ignorant. I would like some advice on an issue that I have.

I was looking to install a simple, mid-range 5.1 or 6.1 system that will eventually be replaced and moved out of the main room when I get the funds to do it "right". It will probably go to my home office so a good balance of music and theater is important. My goal was to stay under $1000 total. I chose JBL, E90 towers, E10 surrounds, EC35 center and powered by Yamaha 5830. Still researching the sub...

My main issue with the Yami is that when we rip it (my wife loves to rip music) it gets red-hot and clips out. When restarted it gives a "check speaker wires" message. My wiring is perfect. Yamaha tech said that driving that unit from -20 to 0 is pushing it too hard and that I need to upgrade for more power. At 110 WPC I find that hard to believe. I am also not satisfied with the sound - it seems hard and not as rich as some of the other units that I have heard. I do love the speakers for the money!

I plan to ebay this unit and buy a higher line ew or used receiver in the $300 - $400 range.

1) Does anyone have recomendations on units that are powerful and have a richer, more natural sound? Something I could find on ebay used or even a new alternative that would be in that range and do the job. An adjustable cross over for would be a bonus as well as an internal fan (no big deal to hook up one externally if needed though...)

2) Also - any recs on a sub? Looking for crisp sound rather than just magnitude. Would like to stay in the $200 - $250 range. Also willing to ebay used for a higher line model.

Thanks so much for your suggestions.

 

[markw]

You might need to consider separate power amps...

...and using the receiver as the preamp/processor.

In the price range you're looking at you won't get a lot of "real" power.

That 110 wpc isn't measured the same way as it was in the good ole days of two channel stereo. You might want to peruse the "all channels driven" thread on either this or another forum here on this site.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have been around audio for years - wouldn't rate my knowledge as "audiophile" but and not audio ignorant. I would like some advice on an issue that I have.

I was looking to install a simple, mid-range 5.1 or 6.1 system that will eventually be replaced and moved out of the main room when I get the funds to do it "right". It will probably go to my home office so a good balance of music and theater is important. My goal was to stay under $1000 total. I chose JBL, E90 towers, E10 surrounds, EC35 center and powered by Yamaha 5830. Still researching the sub...

My main issue with the Yami is that when we rip it (my wife loves to rip music) it gets red-hot and clips out. When restarted it gives a "check speaker wires" message. My wiring is perfect. Yamaha tech said that driving that unit from -20 to 0 is pushing it too hard and that I need to upgrade for more power. At 110 WPC I find that hard to believe. I am also not satisfied with the sound - it seems hard and not as rich as some of the other units that I have heard. I do love the speakers for the money!

I plan to ebay this unit and buy a higher line ew or used receiver in the $300 - $400 range.

1) Does anyone have recomendations on units that are powerful and have a richer, more natural sound? Something I could find on ebay used or even a new alternative that would be in that range and do the job. An adjustable cross over for would be a bonus as well as an internal fan (no big deal to hook up one externally if needed though...)

2) Also - any recs on a sub? Looking for crisp sound rather than just magnitude. Would like to stay in the $200 - $250 range. Also willing to ebay used for a higher line model.

Thanks so much for your suggestions.

You may want to reconsider how loud you play the music. You will have permanent hearing loss for sure. But, the Behringer amps can be had for $180 each. If you bridge it, you will get around 360 watts into 8 ohms. You may want to try 2 or 3 for the front 3 speakers? In the end, it is your hearing that will be lost.

 

[MacManNM]

You may want to reconsider how loud you play the music. You will have permanent hearing loss for sure. But, the Behringer amps can be had for $180 each. If you bridge it, you will get around 360 watts into 8 ohms. You may want to try 2 or 3 for the front 3 speakers? In the end, it is your hearing that will be lost.

Mrty,
You know that more is better! come on!

 

[DaveOCP]

I have been around audio for years - wouldn't rate my knowledge as "audiophile" but and not audio ignorant. I would like some advice on an issue that I have.

I was looking to install a simple, mid-range 5.1 or 6.1 system that will eventually be replaced and moved out of the main room when I get the funds to do it "right". It will probably go to my home office so a good balance of music and theater is important. My goal was to stay under $1000 total. I chose JBL, E90 towers, E10 surrounds, EC35 center and powered by Yamaha 5830. Still researching the sub...

My main issue with the Yami is that when we rip it (my wife loves to rip music) it gets red-hot and clips out. When restarted it gives a "check speaker wires" message. My wiring is perfect. Yamaha tech said that driving that unit from -20 to 0 is pushing it too hard and that I need to upgrade for more power. At 110 WPC I find that hard to believe. I am also not satisfied with the sound - it seems hard and not as rich as some of the other units that I have heard. I do love the speakers for the money!

I plan to ebay this unit and buy a higher line ew or used receiver in the $300 - $400 range.

1) Does anyone have recomendations on units that are powerful and have a richer, more natural sound? Something I could find on ebay used or even a new alternative that would be in that range and do the job. An adjustable cross over for would be a bonus as well as an internal fan (no big deal to hook up one externally if needed though...)

2) Also - any recs on a sub? Looking for crisp sound rather than just magnitude. Would like to stay in the $200 - $250 range. Also willing to ebay used for a higher line model.

Thanks so much for your suggestions.

Yamaha receivers and music generally dont mix. Stick to Marantz or Pioneer. Also, if your budget doesnt allow for megawatts, try more efficient speakers, such as Klispch.

 

[dcwhitney2]

10-4 - Marantz

I have many good recs for marantz. i am going for the SR6400 - adjustable x over, but most of all 6 discrete amps - all giving 100 WPC individually. Yami miss advertises - advertises 5 X 110 WPC but when running all 5 channels it divides power and does not give anywhere close to 110 per channel.

Thanks, but as for hearing damage - c'mon. When you pay for towers, subs, etc you should not run out of power and have an amp glowing red and cutting out at 3/4 volume. You should always have the option to let Jurassic Park rumble your windows or Guns & Roses rip during a party... . The inexpensive Yami was just that... my budget is not ready for sep amps yet (that is where I want to be some day) but for now I must get an av receiver all in one. I think spending the money for the Marantz will do just that.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Sheep]

Another thing ot consider is the HTR lne measures its THD and power at 1 Khz, not over a full 20Hz-20KHz.

That being said, what do you excpet? Its a very low end receiver. For music, run stereo. For movies, go easy. That amp probly doesn't have pre out either. The lowest receiver from yamaha in the RXV line that has them is hte 757, which is the highest before the 1600.

Again, its like expecting to win a drag race in a honda civic hybrid. Not going to happen.

SheepStar

 

[mtrycrafts]

Mrty,
You know that more is better! come on!

Sure, more is better, especially when it comes to $$$$$ LOL

 

[jcPanny]

Receiver upgrade

Obviously most of you didn't read his post. He has the lowest receiver in the Yamaha line which obviously does not include pre-amp outputs or com near to 110 Watts / channel even with only 1 channel driven.

As suggested in an early post, some of the specs of low end receivers are inflated and use different measurement techniques, like power @ 1K Hz @ 10% THD, etc. Realistically you are probably getting 30-40 watts per channel out of that receiver when watching a movie.

I recently purchased the HTR-5860, and for $350, it is in your budget. It is a decent power, perfromance, and feature upgrade and would allow you to connect an external amp in the future. If you don't mind used or refurbished, I would look for a RX-1500 for around $400. It will really deliver the 110 Watts and would be a major upgrade.

 

[dcwhitney2]

thanks jcpanny

your reply was most helpful. Thank you very much.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yamaha receivers and music generally dont mix. .

Why is that? The 3 golden ears couldn't differentiate between a Yam integrated and a $15K Pass Aleph, on their system, in their home.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yami miss advertises - advertises 5 X 110 WPC but when running all 5 channels it divides power and does not give anywhere close to 110 per channel.

NO, no, no, you misunderstand what is being advertised. What you have written doesn't mean all channels driven at the same time.

 

[markw]

That misconception happens quite ofter, and rightly so.

NO, no, no, you misunderstand what is being advertised. What you have written doesn't mean all channels driven at the same time.

While for HT, not all channels will be required to put out the same amount of power at all times and, for the short amount of time one or two channels damands it, it may do that 110 watts.

But, when playing music, which puts pretty much equal demands on all channels at all times, via an "all channel" mode the odds of overdriving the receiver are much, much greater. So, in effect that "HT rating" of 110 X 5 may shrink to a more realistic "all channels driven" rating of 30 -40 X 5 in a music mode.

This is my problem with HT power ratings. They push the HT ratings but bury the constant power ratings so far down in the spec sheet people don't even know they exist. They think they are purchasing a powerhouse.

 

[jaxvon]

I have many good recs for marantz. i am going for the SR6400 - adjustable x over, but most of all 6 discrete amps - all giving 100 WPC individually. Yami miss advertises - advertises 5 X 110 WPC but when running all 5 channels it divides power and does not give anywhere close to 110 per channel.

This is still incorrect. While the amp section itself in the Marantz may be able to crank out 100wpc each, I guarantee that the power transformer that feeds all of those amps cannot output enough current for all of the amps. However, I find that Marantz is a lot more honest (as are HK and Outlaw) when it comes to rating the power output of their units for multi-channel operation. Which brings out another point, check out HK and Outlaw as well.