Need more bass from the Main Speakers.

R

Rony

Junior Audioholic
Hi.
After making Audyssey measerments with my Pre Amp , It seems that major Bass is heard from the Subwoofer .
I ALSO want to “add” more bass via my Front Main Speakers. And leave the Sub Bass levels as it is.
( my front `speakers are very good in my opinion )

What Audyssey parameter do I need to change to receive the result I want ?

I’m using LPE for LFE for the Sub as a separate channel.

System :

Pre : McIntosh MX123
Power : McIntosh MC255
Sub : SVS PB-1000 Pro
Front Speakers : Focal Electra 926

Thanks !!!!
 

Attachments

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Are you using your speakers set to small (i.e. use bass management)? Many do bump up sub level a bit after running Audyssey, too. In some units you have a choice of LFE mode (using the processor for bass management) and also an LFE+Main mode (sometimes called Double Bass) where you can run your speakers full range and still divert bass to the sub. Don't know if your Mc offers that, check your manual.

LPF of LFE is just a limit on content in the LFE channel (content that has a ".1" channel), and normally is set at 120 and left there. Not sure what you mean by using it as a separate channel.
 
R

Rony

Junior Audioholic
Are you using your speakers set to small (i.e. use bass management)? Many do bump up sub level a bit after running Audyssey, too. In some units you have a choice of LFE mode (using the processor for bass management) and also an LFE+Main mode (sometimes called Double Bass) where you can run your speakers full range and still divert bass to the sub. Don't know if your Mc offers that, check your manual.

LPF of LFE is just a limit on content in the LFE channel (content that has a ".1" channel), and normally is set at 120 and left there. Not sure what you mean by using it as a separate channel.
Thanks.
Reply from the end ...
"using it as a separate channel" : Is the LFE channel.
"LFE+Main mode" I have that option in my Mc. Never tried it.
"speakers set to small". YES. They R set as "Small"
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks.
Reply from the end ...
"using it as a separate channel" : Is the LFE channel.
"LFE+Main mode" I have that option in my Mc. Never tried it.
"speakers set to small". YES. They R set as "Small"
Then if you want more bass from your mains and still use the sub, try that LFE+Main mode and set your speakers to large. I'd still set a crossover, altho in practice in this mode will only be half a crossover, a low pass filter for the sub.....but experiment a bit with the overlap and see what you like....or not. Just a preference in the end....

Still not sure what you mean by using the separate channel thing. It is a separate channel in content that has it, tho.
 
R

Rony

Junior Audioholic
separate channel is the LFE. You've understand correctly. my mistake to call it " separate channel".
I will try to fully understand your reply and reply with results.
Very appreciated !!!!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, LFE is it's own channel but shares the use of the sub with redirected/managed bass, too. If english isn't your language you can always post in yours and I can take my chances with google translate.... :) Good luck.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi.
After making Audyssey measerments with my Pre Amp , It seems that major Bass is heard from the Subwoofer .
I ALSO want to “add” more bass via my Front Main Speakers. And leave the Sub Bass levels as it is.
( my front `speakers are very good in my opinion )

What Audyssey parameter do I need to change to receive the result I want ?

I’m using LPE for LFE for the Sub as a separate channel.

System :

Pre : McIntosh MX123
Power : McIntosh MC255
Sub : SVS PB-1000 Pro
Front Speakers : Focal Electra 926

Thanks !!!!
I don't think those speakers have as much bass as you think they do. Your specs on that screen shot are not those posted by Focal.

These are the specs.

Type Three-way bass-reflex floorstanding loudspeaker Speaker drivers Two 61/2" (16.5cm) Flax bass 61/2" (16.5cm) Flax midrange 1" (25mm) Al/Mg TNF inverted dome tweeter Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 45Hz - 28kHz Low frequency point - 6 dB 37Hz Sensitivity (2.83V / 1m) 91.5dB Nominal impedance 8Ω Minimum impedance 2.9Ω Recommended amplifier power 40 - 250W Crossover frequency 290Hz / 2400Hz Dimensions (H x W x D) 403/4x119/16x145/8" (1035x294x371mm) Weight 55lbs (25kg).

The -3db point is 45 Hz. It is a ported enclosure and will roll off at 24db. per octave below that point since it is a ported speaker.

You can not boost bass below that point as the drivers will decouple from the box, and you will have useless cone excursion.

I would set a full crossover at 60 or 80 Hz, certainly not below 60 Hz for those relatively small drivers.

I would also see how it sounds with Audyssey and for sure get rid of dynamic Eq and nonsense of that nature.
 
R

Rony

Junior Audioholic
Regarding your speaker specs. I have focal Electra 926 .
Please see Focal spec that came with my speakers.
Pls see dimension , Net Weight ,
Frequency response that different from your reply.
Regarding other reply details. I need to more learn.
 

Attachments

Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Samurai
With the subwoofer enabled in the receiver the LFE content will always go to the subwoofer. By setting the subwoofer to LFE+Main and setting the front speakers to large, other bass content below the crossover point (typically 80Hz) also gets sent to the front speakers, which should yield what you are after. If you have more than two speakers, set just the front mains to large and the rest should be set to small.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Curious, what was the crossover you were using with speakers set to small?

As far as the speaker spec, seems TLS looked up the Aria 926 instead of the Electra 926?
 
R

Rony

Junior Audioholic
Curious, what was the crossover you were using with speakers set to small?

As far as the speaker spec, seems TLS looked up the Aria 926 instead of the Electra 926?
Regarding “crossover you were using with speakers set to small?” , I don’t know where to see the figure to reply. Pls advise where to look Thanks
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Regarding “crossover you were using with speakers set to small?” , I don’t know where to see the figure to reply. Pls advise where to look Thanks
I'm not familiar with your particular pre-pro but it's generally in the speaker setup menu. Did you just follow McIntosh's suggested crossover when you ran Audyssey?
 
R

Rony

Junior Audioholic
I'm not familiar with your particular pre-pro but it's generally in the speaker setup menu. Did you just follow McIntosh's suggested crossover when you ran Audyssey?
I ran Audessey without any changes. I can pose print screen with the parameters but don’t know from what section exactly.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm somewhat surprised McIntosh would set your speakers to small, most would set them to large for your speakers' capabilities generally but seems they may follow Audyssey's recommendation when using a sub to set speakers to small and start with a crossover of 80hz. Crossovers are discussed in the manual on page 18 (at least the english version on McIntosh's site) and it says they do default to 80hz for crossover. Seems it's in the speaker configuration menu.
 
R

Rony

Junior Audioholic
I'm somewhat surprised McIntosh would set your speakers to small, most would set them to large for your speakers' capabilities generally but seems they may follow Audyssey's recommendation when using a sub to set speakers to small and start with a crossover of 80hz. Crossovers are discussed in the manual on page 18 (at least the english version on McIntosh's site) and it says they do default to 80hz for crossover. Seems it's in the speaker configuration menu.
Yes. You’re right. But I think that Audessey changed parameters according to my room environment.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes. You’re right. But I think that Audessey changed parameters according to my room environment.
Yes, your room and your seating location would determine settings for level and delay (distance).
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I'm somewhat surprised McIntosh would set your speakers to small
I know the Marantz will set to large if it detects a strong enough response below 40 Hz. Uncertain what the threshold is with D&M. But even a small bookshelf that will be giving up the ghost with a full range program can pop Large.

@Rony
I think I get what you are trying to accomplish, but you are working against physics. Specs for your Speaker are a little hard to find. What I saw on one site was a listed bandwidth of 38Hz to 28kHz. No indication if that's -3db or more at its rated extension.
Trying to increase the SPL by boosting the trim and/or push it beyond it's rated extension will not result in a good SQ. It may serve to destroy the Speakers.

Investing in quality Subs and crossing at 80Hz will give you a much more potent experience. Your total open room volume is what will more greatly affect your Bass response. That little PB1000pro is a little trooper, but if you have it in a 5000cu.ft room, it will struggle.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Regarding your speaker specs. I have focal Electra 926 .
Please see Focal spec that came with my speakers.
Pls see dimension , Net Weight ,
Frequency response that different from your reply.
Regarding other reply details. I need to more learn.
I got you model mixed, sorry about that. However the -3db. point is still 38 Hz. So being ported speakers they will be 24 db down at 20 Hz, in other words pretty inaudible. At 30 Hz they will be 12 db. down and so some output, but not a lot.

You can try LFE + Main if the McIntosh allows that. However, I don't know the power handling capabilities of those drivers below 40 Hz. So you might have to be careful with power. In any event since it is a B4 ported box, most power, fed will be wasted power and contribute to ineffective cone excursion. If you have a good sub, then crossing over in the 40 to 60 Hz range makes a lot of sense.

The bottom line is that there is virtually nothing gained by driving a ported box below f3 with appreciable power.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I know the Marantz will set to large if it detects a strong enough response below 40 Hz. Uncertain what the threshold is with D&M. But even a small bookshelf that will be giving up the ghost with a full range program can pop Large.

@Rony
I think I get what you are trying to accomplish, but you are working against physics. Specs for your Speaker are a little hard to find. What I saw on one site was a listed bandwidth of 38Hz to 28kHz. No indication if that's -3db or more at its rated extension.
Trying to increase the SPL by boosting the trim and/or push it beyond it's rated extension will not result in a good SQ. It may serve to destroy the Speakers.

Investing in quality Subs and crossing at 80Hz will give you a much more potent experience. Your total open room volume is what will more greatly affect your Bass response. That little PB1000pro is a little trooper, but if you have it in a 5000cu.ft room, it will struggle.
My Denons seems to use an f3 of 40hz to set to large, same as my Onkyo. OP linked the specs for the speakers, and it is a +/- 3dB for the 38hz-28khz.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top