Need help with polk lsim 705 and yamaha RX 2030

G

Golden Ear

Audiophyte
Been running a boston top end book shelf sys since a kid. Blew em replaced em. Moved to polk lsi the smaller towers driven by a couple top line sony ES receivers. 3 or 4 years back bought a yamaha RX2030 receiver and have been running my polk 704 C and lsi 15 towers with 4 rt 70 in the ceiling and a 4000 definitive sub. Last week i bought a pair of lsim 705s to replace the lsi fronts. They were a consecutive serial number set from adoroma. One didnt work and sent back. The other distorts once i break +4 ON my receiver. I checked the wires, i swapped back to the older pair with no problem i am running bi amp 7.1 and have with great sound and muscle. I am not sure what to be concerned about as 2 speakers are not working correctly and the others plug and play greatly. Suggestions please!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
That is very strange. There is not much to go wrong with speakers (short of obvious shipping damage) unless they are abused.
I wonder if those were speakers that were returned to Adorama after someone blew them! Did you buy them as new or were they open box returns? Are there two layers of tape on the box where it was cut then taped over?
If Adorama processed them as simple returns (not defective), they probably send them out without testing them.
 
G

Golden Ear

Audiophyte
The speaker i returned played very low and muffeled. They seemed like factory sealed. I purchased brand new. I ordered a new pair of cables that will be delivered today to rule that out. I also returned the one speaker as defective.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The speaker i returned played very low and muffeled. They seemed like factory sealed. I purchased brand new. I ordered a new pair of cables that will be delivered today to rule that out. I also returned the one speaker as defective.
In contrast to what KEW said there is an awful lot to go wrong if the designer is a complete moron as is obviously the case here.

You need to drop these speakers like a hot potato. The whole design concept is flawed and insane.

Now we have a lunatic who has presented a speaker with not just one crossover below 400 Hz but two. (100 Hz and 300 Hz)

Now I have designed speakers for years. I can tell you that there is no way you can make a safe speaker like that, let alone a decent one, with a passive crossover solution. I say that categorically, there is no way. I have to work with the same laws of nature as Polk. To even consider this, which is a bad idea anyway as the crossover points are too close together, you would need at least three amps with active crossovers.

Inevitably the stress on the receiver or power amp are going to be horrendous with passive crossovers with those specs.

There is a very high probability the crossover is actually in resonance, a very bad situation for amps driving them. However if you cobble together a contraption like that, you will be far too stupid to spot a detail like resonance.

Do not connect your receiver to a speaker like that. It will vastly shorten its life, if it has not already.

The cynic in me leaves to believe that now Polk and Denon Marantz are the same company, they are deliberately trying to boost the market for replacement receivers.

The is the most egregious concept for a speaker I have seen to date.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Now we have a lunatic who has presented a speaker with not just one crossover below 400 Hz but two. (100 Hz and 300 Hz)
I lol'd.

I know that's not great news, but @TLS Guy is one of the most knowledgeable members we have when it comes to designing speakers and he really does know what he's talking about. I would trust his judgement here and consider returning both of those speakers for a refund if you can and look at something different.
 
hemiram

hemiram

Full Audioholic
I know two people with LSiM705's and they seem to have no problems with them and I personally like the sound. They both can play them very loudly without stressing the amps too much.

But then again, I own LSim703's. My front pair are powered by an old recapped Onkyo M-506 amp, as my receiver was cooking itself running 2 pairs of them and a 706 center, as it did with my previous 6 SVS SB-01's and the matching center..
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
In contrast to what KEW said there is an awful lot to go wrong if the designer is a complete moron as is obviously the case here.

You need to drop these speakers like a hot potato. The whole design concept is flawed and insane.

Now we have a lunatic who has presented a speaker with not just one crossover below 400 Hz but two. (100 Hz and 300 Hz)

Now I have designed speakers for years. I can tell you that there is no way you can make a safe speaker like that, let alone a decent one, with a passive crossover solution. I say that categorically, there is no way. I have to work with the same laws of nature as Polk. To even consider this, which is a bad idea anyway as the crossover points are too close together, you would need at least three amps with active crossovers.

Inevitably the stress on the receiver or power amp are going to be horrendous with passive crossovers with those specs.

There is a very high probability the crossover is actually in resonance, a very bad situation for amps driving them. However if you cobble together a contraption like that, you will be far too stupid to spot a detail like resonance.

Do not connect your receiver to a speaker like that. It will vastly shorten its life, if it has not already.

The cynic in me leaves to believe that now Polk and Denon Marantz are the same company, they are deliberately trying to boost the market for replacement receivers.

The is the most egregious concept for a speaker I have seen to date.
It is for those reasons you stated is why I stayed away from Polks LSiM line. When Polk was doing a beta test and passing around their LSiM top dog to members on their forum, the first impression that I remember was the 707 sounded a little bloated. Each member got to keep a pair for two weeks. Anyways DOC, thank you for posting up your thoughts on the XO, LSiM line. Maybe that's why they're going for half price right now Polk's trying to get rid of a poor speaker design.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
It is for those reasons you stated is why I stayed away from Polks LSiM line. When Polk was doing a beta test and passing around their LSiM top dog to members on their forum, the first impression that I remember was getting with this sounds a little bloated. Each member got to keep a pair for two weeks. Anyways DOC, thank you for posting up your thoughts the LSiM line. Maybe that's why they're going for half price right now Polk's trying to get rid of a poor speaker design.
It is not a comment about the LDiM line but that particular speaker in particular. That speaker is a disgrace. To place passive crossovers at 100 and 300 Hz is just totally beyond the pale. I have never heard of anything so egregious. You have to wonder who is employed to develop that. The cynic in me still makes me wonder if it was done with malice aforethought. As a design like that has to present a highly compromising load to a receiver or amp. One has to wonder if the very poor results the OP got, was not from his receiver protecting itself and reducing the voltage to the output stage to the current available. There are certainly smart power supplies around that can do that.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
It is not a comment about the LDiM line but that particular speaker in particular. That speaker is a disgrace. To place passive crossovers at 100 and 300 Hz is just totally beyond the pale. I have never heard of anything so egregious. You have to wonder who is employed to develop that. The cynic in me still makes me wonder if it was done with malice aforethought. As a design like that has to present a highly compromising load to a receiver or amp. One has to wonder if the very poor results the OP got, was not from his receiver protecting itself and reducing the voltage to the output stage to the current available. There are certainly smart power supplies around that can do that.
Not a speaker design to be pairing with your average bottom feeder AVR. At least not at any meaningful volume surely not reference level volume using 5.1.
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
Definitely sounds like the speakers are presenting a load that only a very robust amp could handle. I would love to see the impedance chart for those.

I just read that the 707's (the big brother) dip down to 2.8 ohms at 66Hz. That is hell for many AVR's and might be ok in 2 channel mode but harsh with all channels driven.

What's your crossover point between the subs and towers? Might have to increase it.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Definitely sounds like the speakers are presenting a load that only a very robust amp could handle. I would love to see the impedance chart for those.

I just read that the 707's (the big brother) dip down to 2.8 ohms at 66Hz. That is hell for many AVR's and might be ok in 2 channel mode but harsh with all channels driven.

What's your crossover point between the subs and towers? Might have to increase it.
You would think that Yamaha A2030 would drive those 705's. Isn't those LSiM's 4 ohm load? If so than if he runs that Yamaha in any other settings like 5.1 or even a 3.1 I'm sure the amp output isn't robust enough to drive those 705's plus a center or even surround speakers. Maybe just driving L/R main alone he should be able to get to reference level volume. What's the two channel output on that a2030? 140 x 2 into a 8 ohm load? So now you have a pair of 4 ohm load speakers pulling more at the rail which drops the amp capacity to half of the rail. Small power supply, just isn't going to cut it with that AVR and those 705's. I haven't read the whole thread, I would recommended adding a two channel amp at the least. Since he has old AVR, getting something a used amp would be his cheapest way to go.
 
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Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Been running a boston top end book shelf sys since a kid. Blew em replaced em. Moved to polk lsi the smaller towers driven by a couple top line sony ES receivers. 3 or 4 years back bought a yamaha RX2030 receiver and have been running my polk 704 C and lsi 15 towers with 4 rt 70 in the ceiling and a 4000 definitive sub. Last week i bought a pair of lsim 705s to replace the lsi fronts. They were a consecutive serial number set from adoroma. One didnt work and sent back. The other distorts once i break +4 ON my receiver. I checked the wires, i swapped back to the older pair with no problem i am running bi amp 7.1 and have with great sound and muscle. I am not sure what to be concerned about as 2 speakers are not working correctly and the others plug and play greatly. Suggestions please!
Polk is dumping that speaker line. Polk has a new line coming out to replace the LSiM's. Around 2011 they did the same thing with their LSi line. The LSi-25 and the LSi-15's both had XO issue's the LSi-25 had a amp class D in each speaker that would crap out, it also had a 10" driver in the lower cabinet of the speaker that was side mounted that made placement critical. Now the smaller one LSi-15 was the better of the two but still the 8"driver in the lower speaker cabinet was inferior and also had OX issues. Some of the Owner's of the LSi-15's replaced the 8" driver in the lower speaker cabinet and modified the XO. The results where a very much improved low end with upper mid bass clarity crossover improvements. Polk has had some speaker engineer issues, But than Polk likes to put out a pretty speaker and call it high end. Guess piano black was more important than a excellent XO and better driver's. I bet if Dennis or TLS Guy, Doc, where to have been in Polks lab working with their engineering department a better product, may have cost a few hundred more to build and Polks top line wouldn't be dumping for half price right now. Can you guys imagine teaming up Gene, Dennis and Doc, on a speaker build and Gene himself doing the final testing with Dennis and Doc? Probably a speaker that would rival B&W Salks , RBH just to mention a few.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
You would think that Yamaha A2030 would drive those 705's. Isn't those LSiM's 4 ohm load? If so than if he runs that Yamaha in any other settings like 5.1 or even a 3.1 I'm sure the amp output isn't robust enough to drive those 705's plus a center or even surround speakers. Maybe just driving L/R main alone he should be able to get to reference level volume. What's the two channel output on that a2030? 140 x 2 into a 8 ohm load? So now you have a pair of 4 ohm load speakers pulling more at the rail which drops the amp capacity to half of the rail. Small power supply, just isn't going to cut it with that AVR and those 705's. I haven't read the whole thread, I would recommended adding a two channel amp at the least. Since he has old AVR, getting something a used amp would be his cheapest way to go.
That won't be a four ohm load. And I bet the phase angles are horrendous, with lots of stored energy and amp busting potential.
 
mpitogo2000

mpitogo2000

Audioholic Intern
@Golden Ear sorry to hear of your woes. I’ve had the LSiM series for years and have found them to be very good performers. In my opinion, the best speakers I owned. They were recently surpassed by the Polk Legend L800 for me. I don’t think the LSiM 705 and 707 can be adequately powered by an AVR. They are current hungry beasts but feed them with good power and the experience will be rewarding. I powered my 707 pair with an MC452 and currently with an RB-1590. AVRs under 2k are lacking in current delivery. Long ago I had a decent Denon AVR4802R receiver go into protection powering Polks older LSi25 which were basicly MTM with a powered woofer.

There isn’t much advantage to bi-amping speakers, unless you have active crossovers. Especially considering you are bi-amping with an AVR. The current headroom is simply not there in the AVR’s power supply. The LSi15 are totally passive and works so I am thinking you have some bum 705s. Do you have an external power amp you can use to test with to rule out the speakers?

Best of luck, I hope you get your issure resolved. They are great speakers. And for the discontinued blowout they are having it’s certainly a better value then when I purchased mine,
 
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G

Golden Ear

Audiophyte
I have honestly been never on a message thread with as many halitosic lord helmet beaters in all my years. I could care less about your sad chat room sessions. REFERENCE my bumhole and tell me what you think you hear. Then I promise I will believe what you assume to know. Go Screw Tummystickers! And TLS Guy you are the biggest WANNA BE BIG lord helmet of all.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
LORD HELMET is PERFECT! Thanks!
You can see the above discussion about being a difficult load confirmed by Brent

I like the sound of the speaker, but it still is a tuff load to drive.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I have honestly been never on a message thread with as many halitosic lord helmet beaters in all my years. I could care less about your sad chat room sessions. REFERENCE my bumhole and tell me what you think you hear. Then I promise I will believe what you assume to know. Go Screw Tummystickers! And TLS Guy you are the biggest WANNA BE BIG lord helmet of all.
You sure you want us to reference your bumhole because if we do we better get a good off axis response

Plus you better have good low end extension and you'll need to be able to handle a big load from being driven by a really powerful amplifier

Wed hate to see it bottom out from distorting your woofer
 

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