Need help with how to add zones to house

[psuscott16]

Hello and thanks in advance for any help.

My current setup is a 5 speaker system connected to a receiver in the basement. The reciever is in a media closet.

The house was prewired when it was built with all of them coming to the media closet. There are built in speakers in our bedroom, kitchen and outside, 2 in each zone. Currently these are not hooked up to anything but I would like to add them.

In searching the web, it looks like I need to add an amplifier to get these speakers to work. Here is where I need the help - does the amplifier just connect to my existing receiver and play what it is playing?

End goal is to be able to listen to what receiver is playing (It has Pandora, bluetooth from my phone, radio, etc). The three zones I am looking to add have spots for control panels as well. There is ethernet ran to each of the three panels. I would prefer to be able to control the volume in each zone by my phone also.

Any help on what to buy or just suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[lovinthehd]

What is your current receiver? Some have multiple zones, some don't. Generally you need to add amplification beyond the first zone with many 7ch receivers (if using 5 speakers in the main zone). Your receiver would need to have zone pre-outs for any amp you need to add. Some receivers are limited as to what digital content can be played in multiple zones, too. Some avrs have good network control, some have none....

 

[psuscott16]

I have a Denon avr-x1100W. It has the pre-outs for the second zone.

 

[lovinthehd]

So your avr is pretty much limited to managing the main zone and a second zone. You could conceivably buy an amp to power all the other speakers in the various rooms via zone 2 and use existing or perhaps other controls for on/off/volume for each room. Not something I've delved into (and many here aren't into the whole home type audio systems) but you might start here https://www.htd.com/Products/Whole-House-Audio. Maybe someone else will be able to expand on what your options are....

 

[psuscott16]

Thanks! Appreciate the input!

 

[BMXTRIX]

If I'm looking at the back of the receiver you listed then I'm confused about it having second zone pre-outs, or any pre-outs at all beyond the subwoofer output.

With that being the case, you really cannot get audio out of your receiver in any manner whatsoever for zone distribution sources. If you are using the built in audio sources in the Denon, then forget it. It's just not going to feed for zone distribution and is the wrong product.

What you may want to consider is using a outboard audio source, like a Sonos zone player. If you eBay 'Sonos ZP90' you will get a ton of responses with many units starting under $100. They've been out for a while and are starting to hit the used market more frequently at reasonable prices. These items have entire phone control, no remote. They can feed audio into a amplifier, or distribution amp if you would like and then you can control the player directly.

There are some crazy options where you could get multiple units and link them together and volume can be controlled through them for the rooms and everything.

Yes, you would still need an amplifier. I prefer multi-channel amps that give each room direct amplification instead of using a speaker selector with internal impedance matching, but both options work when you have a single source going into them.

There's some discussion here to be had about your budget, and it would be helpful if you took a few photos of the location and posted them along with the back of your receiver, because this is what I'm looking at...

 

[psuscott16]

Thanks for the reply.

Budget is between 400 and maybe up to 1k. I want to be able to play sound out of these speakers, but probably cant get everything I want because my wife will say no lol.

My reciever is very similar to what you posted but it does have the zone 2 pre out.

Here is what the wall plates contain. Screw caps have the speaker wires and the loose purple one is a ethernet cable that runs to my media closet where the above reciever is.

Here are the three sets of speakers I need to get working.

There is another speaker on the outside I didnt get in the shot.

I like the idea of the used Sonos, I look into that. Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

Weird, since bmxtrix's photo clearly shows the model number you cited! Looking at the manual's rear panel drawing I did find what you pictured, tho. Were there two versions of this avr maybe by area of the world or something?

 

[psuscott16]

I have no idea lol.

I did some more searching today and I am going to get 3, 2 channel amps for each zone and throw a chromecast audio on them. I'm already using google products so might as well keep it going.

Looking for a budget 2 channel amp now around 35W if you have any suggestions. Been just looking on Amazon.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have no idea lol.

I did some more searching today and I am going to get 3, 2 channel amps for each zone and throw a chromecast audio on them. I'm already using google products so might as well keep it going.

Looking for a budget 2 channel amp now around 35W if you have any suggestions. Been just looking on Amazon.

Have you even looked at or tested the speakers? Know what impedance they are rated for?

You mean amp or integrated amp? You're not going to try and connect via your avr now at all? A straight amp wouldn't work without a volume control.

Might consider some small inexpensive integrated amps like the Lepai t-amps like this https://www.amazon.com/lepai-amplifier/s?page=1&rh=i:aps,k:lepai amplifier. I like the idea of the Chromecast Audio units, for either individual or simultaneous playback....just picked up two myself so two different systems in my house can play the same for parties....

 

[psuscott16]

I have plugged the speakers into my current reciever and they work. I'm not sure what impedance is. I did a search on how many watts are needed for speakers and found a method to determine using the db rating. They are 88 and 89.

I was looking at amplifiers very similar to the link you provided. Something to get them working but dont need top of the line. I didnt know I had any other good options besides using my current Avr so I was trying to find the best way to work it. This way, I can add chromecast audio to my current avr so everything is playing the same, like you said.

Thanks for the link, I'll check those out.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have plugged the speakers into my current reciever and they work. I'm not sure what impedance is. I did a search on how many watts are needed for speakers and found a method to determine using the db rating. They are 88 and 89.

I was looking at amplifiers very similar to the link you provided. Something to get them working but dont need top of the line. I didnt know I had any other good options besides using my current Avr so I was trying to find the best way to work it. This way, I can add chromecast audio to my current avr so everything is playing the same, like you said.

Thanks for the link, I'll check those out.

You have a sensitivity spec but not the impedance spec? What method did you find to determine this?

I have one of those little Lepai amps (the 2020+), and have hooked up some 6 and 8 ohm speakers with similar sensitivity, to it and it did just fine, but won't be an spl monster. I was just setting up the Chromecast Audios tonite for the group thing, me likey. Too bad they're back up to $35 each (got mine for $25) but still one of for each Lepai type amp is a pretty simple and cheap way to get up and running with your multiroom audio. Good luck!

 

[everettT]

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ma1240a-multi-zone-12-channel-amplifier--300-815
Room for expansion or bridge the extra channels. Are there VCs in each zone?

 

[psuscott16]

You have a sensitivity spec but not the impedance spec? What method did you find to determine this?

I have one of those little Lepai amps (the 2020+), and have hooked up some 6 and 8 ohm speakers with similar sensitivity, to it and it did just fine, but won't be an spl monster. I was just setting up the Chromecast Audios tonite for the group thing, me likey. Too bad they're back up to $35 each (got mine for $25) but still one of for each Lepai type amp is a pretty simple and cheap way to get up and running with your multiroom audio. Good luck!

Here is a screenshot of the outdoor speakers from woot. I had the sensitivity wrong. The method I read was to use 103 dB as a baseline and double the watts for every 3 dB.

I had to guess on the sensitivity for the other two sets. They are in the wall and I only saw the brand name when I pulled off the cover. It's a Bowers Wilkins and one of the circle ones at this link. http://m.bowers-wilkins.com/speakers/custom-installation/In-Wall-In-Ceiling/In-Ceiling. I opened each one and looked again and most power suggestion ranges from 25 - 130 W. I may have to find something a little stronger for those.

Glad the chromecast audio is easy to use, going to order those soon.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[psuscott16]

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ma1240a-multi-zone-12-channel-amplifier--300-815
Room for expansion or bridge the extra channels. Are there VCs in each zone?

I can add volume controls for each zone to the wall panels, but I havent yet. There is a picture in my 2nd post on this thread. Thanks for the suggestion but that is beefier than what I was looking for.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Not sure what is up with the receiver since it's not at all like what Denon shows on their website. It clearly has a zone 2 output. I guess I would double check on that model number to make sure we are talking about the same product, maybe link to the product page.

That said, I would still get a multi-channel amp, and right now, this is the best deal I found...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonance-Sonamp-1230-12-Channel-Power-Amplifier/273377460452?epid=66797633&hash=item3fa69100e4:g:rQEAAOSwhmtbS~WS&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=12+channel+amplifier&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0|0

It's under $200 shipped and gives you 3 stereo zones (6 channels) with about 60 watts per channel. It's also built like a tank. It's not some cheap entry level garbage that will blow out after a year or two, but will last you for years and years, just as it likely has for the previous owner. I regularly buy off of eBay and have great results with a much higher quality product than you can buy for the same price.

You can then feed zone 2 from the amp into it or you can feed separate sources to it as you choose.

There are also audio distribution units with (and without) built in amplification from multiple companies out there. Those will be at least a couple grand to get.

The amp shown is the right way to get 3 completely separate zones of audio with dedicated amplification and you can feed the amp 3 individual sources if you want, or feed it a single source to share. With 3 dedicated sources that feature built in volume control and network control, then you control what is going on with each zone through your phone or tablet.

 

[lovinthehd]

Here is a screenshot of the outdoor speakers from woot. I had the sensitivity wrong. The method I read was to use 103 dB as a baseline and double the watts for every 3 dB.

View attachment 25185
I had to guess on the sensitivity for the other two sets. They are in the wall and I only saw the brand name when I pulled off the cover. It's a Bowers Wilkins and one of the circle ones at this link. http://m.bowers-wilkins.com/speakers/custom-installation/In-Wall-In-Ceiling/In-Ceiling. I opened each one and looked again and most power suggestion ranges from 25 - 130 W. I may have to find something a little stronger for those.

Glad the chromecast audio is easy to use, going to order those soon.

Thanks again for the help.

103dB as a baseline for what? Yes, a doubling of power would yield 3dB additional spl. 103dB would be an extremely sensitive speaker, or a very loud spl level. Many speakers are in the mid to high 80s for sensitivity in any case. You realize that 25W is just a minimum amp power recommendation? Still depends how loud you need at what distance for the most part. Try using one of these to get an idea of your amp needs http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

I do like that used Sonance amp idea....

ps You realize also that speakers don't "output" watts....that's badly worded spec you posted in the pic.

 

[psuscott16]

Not sure what is up with the receiver since it's not at all like what Denon shows on their website. It clearly has a zone 2 output. I guess I would double check on that model number to make sure we are talking about the same product, maybe link to the product page.

That said, I would still get a multi-channel amp, and right now, this is the best deal I found...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonance-Sonamp-1230-12-Channel-Power-Amplifier/273377460452?epid=66797633&hash=item3fa69100e4:g:rQEAAOSwhmtbS~WS&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=12+channel+amplifier&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0|0

It's under $200 shipped and gives you 3 stereo zones (6 channels) with about 60 watts per channel. It's also built like a tank. It's not some cheap entry level garbage that will blow out after a year or two, but will last you for years and years, just as it likely has for the previous owner. I regularly buy off of eBay and have great results with a much higher quality product than you can buy for the same price.

You can then feed zone 2 from the amp into it or you can feed separate sources to it as you choose.

There are also audio distribution units with (and without) built in amplification from multiple companies out there. Those will be at least a couple grand to get.

The amp shown is the right way to get 3 completely separate zones of audio with dedicated amplification and you can feed the amp 3 individual sources if you want, or feed it a single source to share. With 3 dedicated sources that feature built in volume control and network control, then you control what is going on with each zone through your phone or tablet.

What you wrote makes sense, thanks.

Power Home HiFi Stereo Amplifier - 90 Watt Portable Dual Channel Surround Sound Audio Receiver w/12V Adapter - For Subwoofer Speaker, MP3, iPad, iPhone, Car, Marine Boat, PA System - Pyle PFA300 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0071HZ5LE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_WmoxBb78DFD04

This is the one I was looking at before your post. Would this be considered entry level junk?

 

[psuscott16]

103dB as a baseline for what? Yes, a doubling of power would yield 3dB additional spl. 103dB would be an extremely sensitive speaker, or a very loud spl level. Many speakers are in the mid to high 80s for sensitivity in any case. You realize that 25W is just a minimum amp power recommendation? Still depends how loud you need at what distance for the most part. Try using one of these to get an idea of your amp needs http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

I do like that used Sonance amp idea....

ps You realize also that speakers don't "output" watts....that's badly worded spec you posted in the pic.

The site said 103 is what you would hear at the movies which is plenty loud for me.

I'll check out the home theater link. Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

The site said 103 is what you would hear at the movies which is plenty loud for me.

I'll check out the home theater link. Thanks!

Movies are generally calibrated for 85dB average level with allowance for 20dB peaks (plus 10dB more for LFE channel). If you have a phone download an spl app for an idea of what your listening levels are....