Need help for a beginner

[bolker]

I read the rules stating that you guys wish not to get lots of really general recomendation requests, but I've read a lot of other messages, and none really fit my situation. So if this message shouldn't have been posted, just wack it.

I'm starting from scratch in audio. I have a 60" Pioneer rear-projection TV. I want to set up primarily for DVDs, but I'd use it for music some too. I'd love a way to hook into my computer network to play all my MP3s as well.

I'm very technical so I don't mind components, but I just have no clue what's good today for the money. I'd spend up to $1500 as the total price, but I'd love to get away for $1000.

Anyhow, I need:

-- Something that hooks to a computer network that would allow me to play MP3s or other audio
-- Amplifier (surrond 5.1-7.1 No receiver needed right now)
-- DVD player
-- Speakers (bookshelf for the front is the only requirement; lots of room for center speaker and subwoofer)

I have a cathedral ceiling in my theater room, and I plan on mounting the rear speakers around 6 feet off the ground on the rear wall. Stands are fine too. But I guess I'm saying there's a lot of room there to fill with sound.

If my price limit is too limiting, what should I expect to pay?

Thanks!

Ron

 

[j_garcia]

I'm very technical so I don't mind components, but I just have no clue what's good today for the money. I'd spend up to $1500 as the total price, but I'd love to get away for $1000.

I have a cathedral ceiling in my theater room, and I plan on mounting the rear speakers around 6 feet off the ground on the rear wall. Stands are fine too. But I guess I'm saying there's a lot of room there to fill with sound.

If my price limit is too limiting, what should I expect to pay?

Well, something can be done in that budget, but don't expect it to sound the best. What are the room dimensions roughly? Larger rooms may require you look in to better equipment, and depending on the size, could mean your budget is a bit tight.

-- Something that hooks to a computer network that would allow me to play MP3s or other audio

There are a number of ways to do this. Might want to do a search in the receivers area, as I think this was discussed recently, or ask it as a separate question.

-- Amplifier (surrond 5.1-7.1 No receiver needed right now)

If you don't already have a receiver or some way to process the raw signals, you will need a receiver.

What you might consider is an all-in-one package that has all of what you need like the one offered by Onkyo (787c). It includes everything you need for a small 7.1 setup, though I'd buy better wire. I recently installed the lower model for a customer, that is the same thing without the DVD player included, and it sounded pretty decent for the $500 he paid, though it was in a small-ish room, about 12x15.

I was also going to recommend you take a look at www.av123.com at the Rocket ELT package, but it looks like they are completely sold out of them at the moment. That system with an entry level receiver and DVD player would probably do quite well.

 

[gellor]

-- Something that hooks to a computer network that would allow me to play MP3s or other audio

I'm not yet the person to comment on a lot of the others, since I'm just learning as well. However, for computer audio you might look into the Roku SoundBridge. I've seen these at Tweeter, and they're a pretty slick looking player ... does MP3s, Windows Media, and iTunes (won't play DRM'ed files from iTunes though)

I've also read lots of good reviews on them. It'll connect to your network either through Ethernet or wirelessly.

 

[jaxvon]

I would say start with a 5.1 BIC system. The bookshelves can put out a lot of sound without getting "dirty" sounding.

You say you don't need a receiver, do you already have a preamp on hand? Otherwise, you're going to need a receiver. Here's my proposed system:

2 pr. BIC DV62si Bookshelves from Amazon: $241.88 shipped
1 BIC DV62CLR Center from Amazon: $104.99 shipped

Subwoofers....

If you can opt for the $1500 budget, you should get the baddest sub you can. I would consider the Hsu VTF-3 MK2 ($752 shipped), the SVS PB12-ISD/V ($774 shipped), or an SVS 20-39CS Plus ($575 plus shipping) with a good outboard amp like the Behringer EuroPower EP1500 ($249.99 shipped).


Lower Budget Options:

BIC V1220 from X-10: $190.99 shipped (out of stock right now)
Cadence X-Sub from Ubid: $229 shipped

And the less expensive subs from Hsu and SVS.

Since you have a large room, you're going to need a lot of sub to energize it and enjoy it. Obviously, some of the subwoofers I quoted would put you over budget, but I thought I'd at least throw out the options.

As for a receiver, I would say go with the Pioneer 1015TX, which is $430 shipped shipped from J&R. You have to call their toll free number to get the nice price, but this is a good deal AND they're an authorized dealer, which means you'll get your warranty.

For a DVD player, you should consider these options (price will dictate what you get, but they're all good):

NeuNeo HVD2085 ($270 shipped)
Pioneer DV-588AS ($129.99 shipped)
Pioneer DV-578AS($109.44 shipped to 48189)

The Pioneers are more in your budget class. The DV-588AS is the newer model of the DV-578AS and has some more goodies.


Whew! That was a lot of post! Anyway, I'm sure that other people have posted a lot while I've been writing this (at work, had to actually do work today ).

Edit: Forgot about the streaming music thing. The Roku looks cool, but you might also want to consider something like a Squeezebox, reviewed here.

 

[brian32672]

Great reply jaxvon, you deserve a chicklet. Lot of work, getting each url for that post...
EDIT:: You forgot to plug Westlake Electronics for all wire needs

 

[bolker]

That is all fantastic information! Thanks for all the posts. I'm sure glad I came here first. Great forums.

BTW, my room is about 22x18, but there is an overhang of a couple feet over where the TV is. But it is a fairly large room.

Ron

 

[j_garcia]

With a room that size, smaller speakers and el cheapo receiver aren't going to cut it, which will make the BICs seem like a better choice. You will also need a pretty decent sub; something like the PB-12ISD/V or the HSU STF- or VTF-3 should handle the job well.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Pioneer players. I've had Panasonic players over the years and they have held up very well. Most recently owned a F-87 changer that was a very good overall budget player. Something like that would also be right in your budget.

 

[bolker]

I should get an outboard amp no matter what speaker setup I get, right?

I think I'm going to have to raise my budget. I really want good sound and if I underpower it, I'll have spent a lot of money and won't be happy.

The Bic satellites and center speaker look great, I think those are locked in.

The Pioneer 1015TX also looks fantastic and I think that's locked in.

For DVD I'm mostly concerned about compatibility with media and picture and sound quality. I don't think there are any other bells and whistles I care about. I do want to be able to support 1080i because my TV supports that. The Pioneers or Panasonics are good enough?

I take it that a BIC V1220 couldn't compare to a Hsu VTF-3 MK2 or SVS 20-39CS Plus, in terms of sound? It's a huge price difference. I have to try to find the best bang for the buck.

The middle level Roku unit looks great, and has great reviews. The squeezebox looks kind of new but also looks great but is more expensive. I'm leaning towards the Roku.

I really can't wait!

Ron

 

[jaxvon]

That BIC sub is okay, but the Hsu and SVS subs are in a whole other catagory. You might want to swing for a lower-priced sub, perhaps the CS sub line with the ISD (improved standard driver). The 16-46 model (16Hz tuning, 46" high) is $479 plus shipping.

A subwoofer is very important because of the fact that you wanna watch movies. A lot of movies have very low frequency sound effects that need a beefy subwoofer to hear/feel.

Regarding the external amp, the one that I linked to before was for the CS subwoofer I linked to, as it's a passive design and needs an amp. The Pioneer receiver should be able to power all of the BICs just fine. If you were to get a different powered subwoofer, like the Hsu VTF-3, then you wouldn't need the external amp. FWIW, the Hsu is probably fine for your needs. The 16-46 sub with a monster external amp is really overkill.

 

[bolker]

Ok, so if I were to go with...

Front: 2 BIC America Venturi DV62si
Back: 2 BIC America Venturi DV62si
Center: BIC America DV-62CLRS 6-Inch 2-Way Center Channel Speaker
Sub: Hsu VTF-3 MK2 ($752 shipped) or SVS PB12-ISD/V ($774 shipped)
Receiver: PIONEER VSX-1015TXK THX Select AV Receiver
DVD/CD: Pioneer DV-588A-S

...I'll have a nice setup for home theater as well as music? The only concern I have is the mid-low bass sound since the front and back speakers are essentially book shelf. Should I worry?

Also, is it a toss-up between the HSU and SVS subs? I penciled in the HSU but they both have great reviews.

I'm holding off on the MP3 network streaming music just until I have everything else set up, and I'd like to go to the store and see them if I could.

Thanks again guys. I'm going to order after I hear back from you. Hope I get it in time for next weekend.

 

[jaxvon]

With some bookshelves you might have to worry about the lower mid-bass, but these things have clean output down into the mid 40Hz range (a low E on a bass guitar is 40Hz).

As far as the subwoofers go, Buckeyefan1 and MacManNM checked out the SVS factory and found that their subs had more strength in HT. Hsu subs generally aren't geared for the super-low extension that the SVS are, so you'd probably be better off with the Hsu (and it's cheaper too). I would say give Hsu a call and see what he thinks would be best for you room. Nothing better than getting your information straight from the source.

Hsu Research: 1-800-554-0150 (open 9-5 Pacific Time)

The BIC bookshelves do tend to be kind of bright. This can be fixed with the Ed Frias crossover mod (which costs $30/pr and $20 for the center speaker). However, some like the midrange sound of the speakers better without the mod. However, you'll have to get them home first and get a listen before sending off the crossovers.

You may have a hard time finding that Pioneer receiver right now, as its popularity has spiked and is flying off shelves. I'd suggest you call up your local Best Buy and see if they have it in stock. If they do, then have them hold it so you can go grab it! Best Buy should price match too, so make sure you get a quote from J&R first so you can talk Best Buy down (Spiffyfast did this).

 

[bolker]

I did run out and grab a VSX-1015TXK from Best Buy. Lots of places were out of stock, but there was a Best Buy that had a "Magnolia" store in their store (never heard of this before), which carried some pretty high end stuff. They had the entire Pioneer Elite line, and other very high end components. But they gave me the Pioneer for $430 after I talked with a salesguy a bit and showed him the web site of J&R.

I'm going to place an order for the 4 BIC DV62si and DV62CLR right now as well. Their size scares me when it comes to bass, but every message I've seen about them raves that the bass is excellant and it's a fantastic speaker for fronts and backs. And as you said I could add in the Ed Frias crossover tweek if I want to try for more bass.

Then I'm going to call Hsu Research tomorrow and most likely order the VTF-3 MK2. The more I read about it, the more excited I am about this subwoofer.

I just noticed that the NeuNeo HVD2085 did upscaling to 1080i and 1080p. I read the arguments for (makes a difference) and against upscaling (not that much difference, waste of money), and really I don't know what to make of it. I think I'll go with the Pioneer and wait, and eventually all DVDs will upscale and cost around $100.

Thanks again guys.

 

[jaxvon]

Nice move! I bet that receiver looks so lonely without speakers...

When you get your speakers in, throw on one of your favorite recordings and see how it sounds. I can feel these things vibrate the couch a little bit from 12 feet away!

 

[brian32672]

Nice move! I bet that receiver looks so lonely without speakers...

Hey, be nice. This is a start to a wonderful system. I approve.....
Now chicklet time

 

[Spiffyfast]

Hey, be nice. This is a start to a wonderful system. I approve.....
Now chicklet time

I agree, he looks like he going to have a very nice system and you get another chicklet for buying the 1015tx.

 

[bolker]

Hehe, I don't mean to spam-post, but I'm really excited. I just got confirmation that all the Bics and the DVD player are on the way and will be here by Friday. The only thing that might not make it here by the weekend is the sub. I did go with the Hsu VTF-3 MK2 and I'm really glad I did. After talking with them at Hsu today, while they said I could get away with the VTF-2, they said if you love sub sounds, it's worth it. It wasn't that much more, and it's an investment. I bet it survives in my setup long after my TV switches to a plasma.

One question though. My entertainment setup is one of those really large wooden (the cathedral my wife calls it ) cabinets that has stacking space around the TV, which is a 60”. It has two enclosures at the bottom on the sides of the television that came with speaker-type grates in case you want to put speakers in there. I was thinking that maybe I could put the fronts on higher shelves, and put the subwoofer in one of the cabinets down below. Would that screw up the sound? Would it rattle the cabinet to pieces? It would definitely keep it out of the way and I could point it at the audience.

 

[jaxvon]

Glad you're excited!

The BIC speakers have rear ports, which means they need some clearance around them (especially behind them) to sound best. If you could, I'd say try to keep them out of a cabinet. Besides, if they can make my couch and desk vibrate without touching it, they're going to vibrate your cabinet.

As far as the sub goes...no. No cabinet for Mr. Sub. It's down-firing for one, which means the sound is dispersed in every direction. Second, it's rear ported. And third, I think your cabinet might fall apart from all the vibration. Here's a quote from a member who just bought the STF-3 (12" sub, but with less power and not as low extension):

Fortunately, I recently bought a bunch of museum wax and now have a really good use for it. There is stuff rattling all over the house....AND my neighbor's house. I'll be on a rattle search and destroy mission for days. I'm not sure our builder built these walls to Hsu specs.

The only kind of sub I would even THINK of putting into a cabinet would be a front-firing, sealed design. All velodyne subwoofers are like this, as are the AV123 Rocket subwoofers. However, at the price you paid for your Hsu, no offering from Velodyne or AV123 is going to touch the level of output and extension you're going to achieve.

 

[bolker]

Just wanted to mention how things went this weekend. All but the Hsu arrived. I got a decent deal on Audioquest cables and high quality speaker cable, and used my older JBL 100 subwoofer.

First of all, I was amazed that I actually hooked everything up correctly from the start. Today's bevy of interconnect options is not for the faint of heart. I read the manuals three times and eventually understood them. My DVD/CD player needs an analog and digital audio connector to play every possible media it supports, and so I added the analog 5.1 output. I'll likely never use it.

I was pretty shocked that the DVD video quality was WAY better than it was before. Granted, my old DVD player wasn't a progressive scan, but I had no idea what the difference really was. It was shockingly better. The Pioneer DVD player I got, the DV-588AS, has most bells and whistles, but what I really liked about it was that it actually plays most DVD/R and CD/R and RW formats. I checked on the web and it and it's predecessor do a good job of it. I cut a DVD and a CD on my computer, and it played it flawlessly. Upconverting would have been cool, but I'm so impressed with standard progressive, I can't imagine it being that much more noticeable.

The audio is unbelievable. Our first usage was a Lord of The Rings: The Two Towers DVD. The Bic DV62si's and DV-62CLRS were way larger than I had expected, which calmed my fears of not enough mid bass. They are a fairly hefty bookshelf speaker. Together, they make incredible sound reproduction. Granted, I'm not used to that kind of high quality audio, but it surpassed every possible idea I had about what I wanted in a speaker setup. The lone let-down was that my JBL subwoofer was pitifully overmatched, and barely snuck in there for some of the low sounds coming out. Overall though it was incredible. I know the Hsu is going to raise the bar considerably again, and it just arrived at my house today.

A quick note about the Pioneer 1015TX. It is simply fantastic. It drove all speakers to insane levels without any distortion whatsoever. I mean none. It was just very loud. I think that I couldn't stop giggling at one point. Additionally, it has most of the goodies that the Elite version comes with, including many of the same components, and is around $550 less. The ratings it receives all over the web are justified. I feel like I got fantastic bang-for-the-buck with it.

All in all I just want to thank everyone that helped with my choices, and especially jaxvon who came up with a really nice spread of components in my range. I was the rare neophyte that got their first real HT system right the first time. I’ll post a bit more when the Hsu gets here as well, although I’m fairly sure I won’t be disappointed there.

Ron