Need help choosing receiver

[Youjimbo]

Been trying to figure out which receiver to buy the coming weeks. I am planning to buy a new speaker first since this is the weakest spot in my cmurrent sound system and then buy a new set of speaker in a couple of months. The plan is to buy the B&W 604 S3 fronts, B&W LCR600 centre and use the B&W DM602 S3 as surround speakers. Subwoofer is planned for christmas (need to save up some cash after spending on everything else mentioned).
I might go for the B&W CM-series instead, not made up my mind. The combination would be CM4 fronts, CM 4 rear speakers and CM C to be used as center.

As mentioned I plan to buy receivcer in a few weeks. Does anyone havce tips regarding a decent match between speakers and receiver between the list of possibles I've made?

Receceivers I am considering with some comments from me:
Denon AVR-3805
Harman/Kardon AVR-630
Marantz SR7500
Onkyo TX-SR702E
Pioneer VSX-AX5Ai
Yamaha RX-V2500

Since I live in Sweden prices differ somewhat to the US pricing. The receiver above all fit within my budget.
I'm also taking a peak on the class d amplifier Harman/Kardon DPR-2005. It's a little pricier and I'm worried about how it will fit the B&W speakers. Is it a mmuceh better choice than the receivers above.

I like the features of the Denon but a low 390W power consumption makes me wonder how much one really gets for each channel. Compared to the 1000W of the H/K it looks pretty weak. Is it still enough for the B&W speakers?

Thanks for any tips provided.

 

[Youjimbo]

Should I...

Should I take an extra look at the NAD T763v2 and Vincent SV-382? They are also in my price range.

I am looking for a good comubination between HT and stereo sincce it'll be used equally mmuch ffor both tasks.

 

[dloweman]

I am assuming that the pioneer you listed is of the elite line. I have heard the Pioneer elite 56 with b&w, and the combination was pretty impressive. They are great with both music and movies. The power and clearity are amazing. Have a listen, I think you will be impressed.

 

[Leprkon]

Each one has their strengths.. the Denon, for example, is probably the best set-up for multi-room, the Yamaha excels at movies, and the Onkyo is easily the best at computer-generated music.

If you need to consider video inputs, the Denon is probably the best for that, and they actually do some conversion on the signal (if you send in a composite picture, you would get a S-video or component quality signal out), where the Yamaha will only transfer the signal from one connector to the other (no real up-convert). Keep in mind you have to dish out some extra money to get the microphone for the 3805 automatic set-up (about $ 65 in the US)

The Yamaha (which I went with, since it was about $ 200 less in the US than the Denon and I don't pass any video through the receiver) has S-video, composite and optical links on the front panel (video game box would have to plug in at the back if you wanted the component picture)

The Onkyos went through a period in November and December where people were complaining about the video sections going bad on the x02 models, but I haven't heard anything recently. You might want to do some extra research on that one. I've seen some really good prices on the 801 (last year's model) which I didn't find any complaints at all.

 

[Youjimbo]

Thanks

Thanks Leprcon. Didn't know the Denon actually did real upconvert and not just pass through. I know it can't magically imuprove the visual quality but at least I might get a more stable picture that way?

Does anyone know if the HK can pass through signals or if you're stuck with needing S-Video if your source is S-video? I'm asking cause I might be forced to use Comuponent for DVD and S-Video for digital TV. Would like to use one component cable from receiver to projector if possible, like it is with the Denon and Yamaha.

Does anyone know if the Marantz has Video up convert? Seems to me that the NAD is like the Yamaha.

I live in Sweden. You can't buy the Denon without mic, it comes standard. Somewhat different pricing compared to US (higher in general).

I have been checking out the Vincent some more. While most people say sound is great, I think I will need more inputs/outputs.

Will listen to the Denon and NAD next week. Will go to another placce to listen to the HK, Yamaha and Marantz.
Computer music is of no real interest at the moment so I guess that means the Onkyo looses it's strength?

 

[MDS]

Each one has their strengths.. the Denon, for example, is probably the best set-up for multi-room, the Yamaha excels at movies, and the Onkyo is easily the best at computer-generated music.

Not to pick on Leprkon, but that is soley one man's opinion and an attempt to fit the different brands into neat little compartments. It's no different than the 'conventional wisdom' that Yamaha is 'bright' and Marantz is 'warm'. Some agree and others will not. If you want to go by these neat little labels, Onkyo is often considered 'neutral' meaning it reproduces the signal it was sent without adding or taking away much of anything; therefore, it will work great for both movies and music.

All of the brands have models that can do multi-room, video upconversion, and excel at both music and movies. There will be subtle sonic differences, but for the most part they are very similar. Only your own ears can determine if it handles music or movies to your satisfaction. Avoiding one brand or another because someone says 'it's good for music and not movies' or vice-versa is a big mistake unless you have personally auditioned it and come to the same conclusion.

 

[Leprkon]

Not to pick on Leprkon, but that is soley one man's opinion and an attempt to fit the different brands into neat little compartments.

of the specific models mentioned, only the Denon has amplified capability for multi-room. the other systems would need an additional amplifier for the third zone, which for all intents and purposes, defeats the purpose of having multi-room. if you need another amp in the room, why not just have another receiver ?? the Denon is the only unit that can give you a second amplified room and still give you a 7.1 set-up. further, it is the only model (again, of those specifically mentioned) that can transmit a digital signal over the other zones. This makes it clearly the best choice for a multi-room set-up.

of the specific models mentioned, only the Yamaha is THX certified, has 53 DSP's, AND has the ability for prescence speakers in place of the rear surrounds in a 7.1 set-up. (note that some Onkyo models are THX certified but do not have the other options). Yamaha does not have a model under $ 3,000 that will do true video upconversion. the many options make it the best choice for a movie-based operation.

of the specific models mentioned, only the Onkyo is specifically designed with computer-based music. the other units are MUCH more heavily dependant on the ancillary equipment (iPod, DVD player, whatever) to be able to produce net-based inputs.

you will note that no where in my discussion did I address sound, as that is a debatable topic. my comments are based on the strengths and limitations of the physical capabilities of the equipment that were asked about and are not just random personal opinions.

 

[MDS]

my comments are based on the strengths and limitations of the physical capabilities of the equipment that were asked about and are not just random personal opinions.

Ok, so they are not random personal opinions, but they are not entirely factual either. I'm sure your comments are accurate for some of the models specifically mentioned, but not all of them.

Since I own the Onkyo and am familiar with all of the models:

- The 702 DOES have amplified zone 2 as does all of the other models in the list. In all these receivers, you can have 5.1 in the main room and zone2 amplified. You only need a separate amp if you want 7.1 in the main zone.

- The 702 IS NOT designed for computer music, if by that you mean the ability to stream mp3/wma - that requires the 801.

- NONE of the receivers mentioned can send digital audio to zone 2. In fact, no receiver other than the more esoteric brands like B&K, Sunfire, etc can.

- The 702 IS THX Select Certified. Sure none of the others are.

- The 702 DOES do video upconversion if you mean 'transcoding'; ie convert from composite or s-video to component. NONE of them can truly 'upconvert'; ie convert 480i to 480p or higher resolutions.

As I said, all receivers in the same class have almost identical features. Only the manner in which they are implemented differs and some are entirely un-user friendly.

Don't send the guy on a wild goose chase based on your own perceptions on which receiver does things the 'right way', especially when your recollection of the differences between brands is not accurate.

 

[Leprkon]

- The 702 DOES have amplified zone 2 as does all of the other models in the list. In all these receivers, you can have 5.1 in the main room and zone2 amplified. You only need a separate amp if you want 7.1 in the main zone.

the 702 LOSES amplified zone 2 in a 7.1 set-up. then you only have a low-volt signal output. The Denon CAN do a 7.1 and STILL have amplified Zone 2.

 

[Leprkon]

- The 702 DOES do video upconversion if you mean 'transcoding'; ie convert from composite or s-video to component. NONE of them can truly 'upconvert'; ie convert 480i to 480p or higher resolutions.

never said it didn't... I said the YAMAHA won't do it.... you might try reading a little more carefully.

 

[Leprkon]

- The 702 IS THX Select Certified. Sure none of the others are.
Don't send the guy on a wild goose chase based on your own perceptions on which receiver does things the 'right way', especially when your recollection of the differences between brands is not accurate.

the Yamaha RX-V2500 is also THX Select Certified. I guess I'm not the only one with "recollection" problems

 

[Duffinator]

Ok, so they are not random personal opinions, but they are not entirely factual either. I'm sure your comments are accurate for some of the models specifically mentioned, but not all of them.

Since I own the Onkyo and am familiar with all of the models:

- The 702 DOES have amplified zone 2 as does all of the other models in the list. In all these receivers, you can have 5.1 in the main room and zone2 amplified. You only need a separate amp if you want 7.1 in the main zone.

- The 702 IS NOT designed for computer music, if by that you mean the ability to stream mp3/wma - that requires the 801.

- NONE of the receivers mentioned can send digital audio to zone 2. In fact, no receiver other than the more esoteric brands like B&K, Sunfire, etc can.

- The 702 IS THX Select Certified. Sure none of the others are.

- The 702 DOES do video upconversion if you mean 'transcoding'; ie convert from composite or s-video to component. NONE of them can truly 'upconvert'; ie convert 480i to 480p or higher resolutions.

As I said, all receivers in the same class have almost identical features. Only the manner in which they are implemented differs and some are entirely un-user friendly.

Don't send the guy on a wild goose chase based on your own perceptions on which receiver does things the 'right way', especially when your recollection of the differences between brands is not accurate.

I have the Denon 3805 and everything stated here is correct as it applies to the 3805. It has three discrete zones, main room, zone 2, and zone 3 for which I'm using all for bi-amping and multiroom. You cannot distribute digital inputs to zone 2 or 3. It only distributes video through the component cables and does not upconvert or resize the image in anyway.

youjimbo: You don't have the wattage of the 3805 correct. According to my manual it's 852 watts (7.1 amps x 120 volts).

All of the receivers you have listed are going to be similar in power and sound quality. Go listen to as many as you can. The Yamaha 2500 wasn't available when I purchased my receiver. The 2400 only had two component inputs and I wanted three so I went with the Denon. I've used HK receivers for almost a decade and like them a lot. But the Denon had the bells and whistles I wanted. I'm very pleased with the Denon.

 

[Leprkon]

It only distributes video through the component cables and does not upconvert or resize the image in anyway.

some of the retailer websites (I do emphasize retailer) sites report video upconversion. They also state that video may be provided to Zone 2 as well as audio... is that correct ?

 

[Duffinator]

some of the retailer websites (I do emphasize retailer) sites report video upconversion. They also state that video may be provided to Zone 2 as well as audio... is that correct ?

It does nothing to enhance the image. It will distribute all video inputs, regardless of their source or input cable type, via the component cables, that's all. The same applies to the Yamaha. You Denon 3805 will distribute video via a composite cable to zone 2. I think the Yamaha does this as well but I wouldn't bet my life on it. I'm pretty sure the HK's do as well but I'm not familiar with their latest models.

 

[MDS]

the 702 LOSES amplified zone 2 in a 7.1 set-up. then you only have a low-volt signal output. The Denon CAN do a 7.1 and STILL have amplified Zone 2.

YOU might want to read more carefully yourself. Here is what I said repeated so you can take a good look:

- The 702 DOES have amplified zone 2 as does all of the other models in the list. In all these receivers, you can have 5.1 in the main room and zone2 amplified. You only need a separate amp if you want 7.1 in the main zone

All of these receivers are more alike than not.

 

[Youjimbo]

I have the Denon 3805 and everything stated here is correct as it applies to the 3805. It has three discrete zones, main room, zone 2, and zone 3 for which I'm using all for bi-amping and multiroom. You cannot distribute digital inputs to zone 2 or 3. It only distributes video through the component cables and does not upconvert or resize the image in anyway.

youjimbo: You don't have the wattage of the 3805 correct. According to my manual it's 852 watts (7.1 amps x 120 volts).

All of the receivers you have listed are going to be similar in power and sound quality. Go listen to as many as you can. The Yamaha 2500 wasn't available when I purchased my receiver. The 2400 only had two component inputs and I wanted three so I went with the Denon. I've used HK receivers for almost a decade and like them a lot. But the Denon had the bells and whistles I wanted. I'm very pleased with the Denon.

I do have the wattage of the Denon correct. I read it on the producet leaflet fromu Denon which is downloadable fromu their site. They state 7x120W but further down the leaflet you can read "Power Consumuption: 390W". I.e. the transformer can only handle 390W while each channel seperatly can handle 120W. I assume...
This is why I thought that perhaps the Denon isn't quite as powerful. By searching on power c.onsumption on the net I found the Yamaha to have 500W, the Marantz to have 680W and HK 1000W for instance.

I will listen to as many as possible, but as I am a bit short on time i would like to shorten the list.

I hear the B&Ws are a bit on the bright side. This means the Marantz with it's "warm" sound is a good complement? Problem is that I can only listen to the Denon and NAD T763v2 combined with the B&W speakers I plan to buy.
The others will have to be combined with Dynaudio or JMLab.

If the receivers I havce listed are known for a ccertain character please inform me. You mentioned the Onkyo is neutral, Yamaha bright and Marantz warm. What about the others? I heard fromu a friend that the HK are supposed to have a "tight" sound.

Oh and does anyone know if the HK can send a signal out on Component if it was recce,ived in say Comuposite? It's a bit unclear in the manual. Same goes for NAD.

 

[Duffinator]

Regardless of what the stated power rating is the 3805 should have no probems with the B&W speakers. Have you read the Audioholics review of the 3805? The speakers used in the review demand lots of power and had no problem with them.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Denon-AVR3805_review01.php

 

[Youjimbo]

Hmm

Ok read it. Seems like there's plenty of power there.

So what are the main benefits of the 3805 over the Marantz SR7200? The Marantz seems to have even more power (power consumption twice as high). I am asking cause it seems to me that the Marantz has most of the features found in the 3805 but at an almost $400 lower price tag, which I could use to either buy a matching DVD-player or put in my speaker fund.
Same goes in a comparison with the Yamaha RX-V2500. Same price tag here in Sweden.
The Onkyo is priced like the Denon.

I hear the B&W speakers are a bit on the bright side. This means the combine badly with the Yamaha since it's bright also? I should focus on the Denon and Marantz instead with their warmer touch?

The NAD T763v2 and HK AVR-630 are both around $100 up on the Yamaha and Marantz.

 

[kakapo]

I was having the same problem as you. Couldnt decide what receiver to match my dm604 s3. I finally bought a vincent sp-331 2ch stereo amplifier. Can be bought for 8500sek in sweden or 663Euro in germany. I use a simpler HK 5.1 receiver as pre-amplifier(if thats the right word) and to drive my surround speakers.
I couldnt be more happiers with this setup, these speakers really enjoys power.