Need help choosing a high end receiver.

[Volumius]

I am looking at a new receiver to be the center of my home theater witch exists out:

2x Mission 733i floor standing speakers
1x Mission 73c center speaker
2x Mission 73s rear speakers
1x JBL E150P Subwoofer

My old receiver was a Denon AVR-1804 and when I watched movies I always had the volume turned up to -05db and still I had the idea it could use more power. I now seek for a new receiver witch will have enough power to feed my setup. Those 733i speakers are known for the fact that they are really power hungry so.

I want to have a spectacular home theatre sound with lows that have enough depth to shake your seat and with crisp clear highs and detailed surround. This all with enough power so that when I turn the volume up to -30db or something, I already have a meaningful cinema sound and still have some power left to turn it up by popular scenes. The receiver must not fall down in power output when I have 5 channels driven. Witch of the 4 receivers below can be sufficient enough for some real exciting movie delivery at decent volume?

My list of choices

Yamaha RX-V2500
Marantz SR7500
Denon AVR-3805
Onkyo TX-SR702

 

[Doug917]

I've been really happy with my Yamaha 2500. Let me put it this way: I used to have a Denon 5800 with the factory upgrades, and I don't miss it at all. The DSP processing in the Yamaha rocks. I didn't know the 2 rear surrounds were not on the first night I got it and did not miss them. Yamaha leads the way in DSP. I also use the front presence channels Yamaha provides and it really adds dimension to the front array. Being that they are higher and out to the sides more, it really helps properly dispersing sound with a large screen, such as the 92" 16X9 I use. The Denon was a good receiver, but I enjoy the Yamaha at 1/6 the price more.

 

[Volumius]

What about the powe and the sound character? At witch volume do you often watch a movie? I do not give so much about features, it just have to sound good an powerfull.

 

[Doug917]

I watch movies pretty loud, close to reference, and the Yamaha has never strained with anything I have thrown at it. I do have 2 subwoofers and use the 80Hz crossover setting. My room is 18' long 12' wide and 7' high. I never even come close to running out of power. When I am listening very loud the receiver's volume is at about -20db. I also have very efficient speakers (Klipsch >90db).

 

[markw]

Doesn't that have preamp outs?

If so, you might be better served by simply adding separate power amps. That's what they are made for.

If a power boost is your main goal, then attaining a meaningful boost with another receiver will be costly.

 

[Volumius]

Seperate power amps is not an option. I do not have that much space for them and are also on a budget. Further opinions about my listed receivers?

 

[markw]

Not really, but here's a little something to consider in your search.

You will need to double the power of your current receiver to gain a barely audiable increase of 3 decibles.

To double the apparant loudness of your current receiver, you will need ten times the power your current receiver offers.

 

[MBauer]

My thoughts

I just went through a similiar exercise for our family room HT set up. I wound up with a Denon 3805. I looked at all of the receivers on your list, but most closely at Onkyo, Denon and Marantz.

My reasons (rational) number of inputs (digital), video bandwidth, Denon reputation and reviews. It also seemed like it would be an excellent pre/pro if I wanted to use a separate power amp(s) some day. That would give me a little "future proofing"

I personally knew a couple of people who used Denon receivers and not only had achieved good results but also reliability. Adding that to several very positive reviews made the 3805 a good choice for me. I was also comfortable with the 2805 for a bit less money but decided to go with the 3805.

My current system is the Denon, A Sony DVD player, both Digital Cable and Satellite, HD Over the Air (OTA) a Sony 60 XS, two Defintive Technolgy BP 2000's (L&R) a Definitive Technology CLR 2002 (Center) and two Definitve Technology BPX's as surrounds

I think any of the receivers you listed would do a fine job, good luck with your choice I am sue you will enjoy it

 

[MBauer]

One more thought

What about the powe and the sound character? At witch volume do you often watch a movie? I do not give so much about features, it just have to sound good an powerfull.

I don't know the specifications of your speakers but the volume you hear will be measured in SPL's. So it is important to know how efficient your current speakers are. As had been stated, increasing your apparent volume takes a lot more power. There are other values you may want to consider such as transient response, etc. Look at specs that show output across the entire range, not just at 1000 Hz for example. Most times when you are listening you will not need much amp power, but on transients, special effects, etc a good amplifier section will meet all the output needs transparently

 

[Volumius]

My speakers have a sensitivity rating of 86db and and imdependance is 8ohm. You all talk much about features, videoconverters etc, but what about the sound. How do these receivers of my list sound? Cold or warm, agressive or soft?

 

[MBauer]

More info

My speakers have a sensitivity rating of 86db and and imdependance is 8ohm. You all talk much about features, videoconverters etc, but what about the sound. How do these receivers of my list sound? Cold or warm, agressive or soft?

Thats what the loudspeakers do. A good receiver doesn't add sound, unless you play with the digital signal processing (DSP) settings. A good receiver accurately provides amplification of the signals without altering it. So, the material you choose, and its quality, along with your speakers determine how it will sound. A good amplifier section will be able to effortlessly attain the necessary levels of volume. Now, that is an idealized characteristic of course, there will be some differences in how they sound, but most of the "sound" is determined by your other equipment. That is why we talk about features, etc.

Audiophiles spend a fortune on amplifiers so they do nothing else but play back material exactly as it was recorded, produced, etc. Thats why they often have such powerful output stages, so they can deal with heavy demands from playback. That is why I mentioned transient response, the receivers ability to quickly match changes in frequency, output levels, etc. Also, the ratings across the full spectrum, 20-20 KHz

My advice, go to a reputable dealer(s) and bring the receivers home for a trial, that way you will be able to determine which you like best. Play your material, etc. also, consider the number of sources you have, so you get the best connectivity options.

 

[markw]

To augnemt what MBauer said above,

The amplifier's contribution to the overall sound is minute compared to the speakers and the room. This, of course, assumes that the amplifier isn't being driven beyond it's limits.

If you drive an amp, any amp, beyond it's limits and into clipping, it will most definitely have an audiable effect on the overall sound, though.

V, you seem to want a simple answer to a complex question.

You might want to lurk and learn for a while, check out the articles off the main pages that deal with exactly what you are talking about and what people are saying.

You might find it helpful in understanding the answers you are getting.

 

[emason17]

hk

I was looking for very much the same stuff as you and my prioroties were: power and cleanliness. I chose the Harman Kardon 7300 becuase of the massive amout of power it delivered. It has come down to near the price of these others. I would suggest to look at it, at least.

I am looking at a new receiver to be the center of my home theater witch exists out:

2x Mission 733i floor standing speakers
1x Mission 73c center speaker
2x Mission 73s rear speakers
1x JBL E150P Subwoofer

My old receiver was a Denon AVR-1804 and when I watched movies I always had the volume turned up to -05db and still I had the idea it could use more power. I now seek for a new receiver witch will have enough power to feed my setup. Those 733i speakers are known for the fact that they are really power hungry so.

I want to have a spectacular home theatre sound with lows that have enough depth to shake your seat and with crisp clear highs and detailed surround. This all with enough power so that when I turn the volume up to -30db or something, I already have a meaningful cinema sound and still have some power left to turn it up by popular scenes. The receiver must not fall down in power output when I have 5 channels driven. Witch of the 4 receivers below can be sufficient enough for some real exciting movie delivery at decent volume?

My list of choices

Yamaha RX-V2500
Marantz SR7500
Denon AVR-3805
Onkyo TX-SR702

 

[timw]

My speakers have a sensitivity rating of 86db and and imdependance is 8ohm. You all talk much about features, videoconverters etc, but what about the sound. How do these receivers of my list sound? Cold or warm, agressive or soft?

1st Posting here...recently discovered this great site! I too just went through the process of getting a new HT receiver. I sold off some seperate amps and decided to go with just a very good receiver. I was all set to go with the Denon 2805 but for the few bucks extra went for the 3805. Especially after reading the review and threads here about it! I actually printed out the review from this site to supplement the instruction manual. The Denon manual can get confusing at times so reading what the reviewer went thru was a big help to me getting the receiver setup right! I'm very happy with the 3805 so far. It handles my 4ohm Thiel 3.6's with no problem. I also didn't want to sacrifice good quality music listening either. Another reason I went with Denon. They're known for good sound quality. You might want to read the review here and see what u think. Best of luck!
TimW

 

[anamorphic96]

In all honesty the receivers you listed do not very much from each other. It will depend on what your ears like. There all good receivers.

Now the other news. All of the receivers listed will drop in power when driving all channels driven. All the units listed can output the rated amount of power but not all channels at the same time. Usually only one or two channels driven. The only two receivers I know off hand that rate with all channels driven our Rotel and NAD. The other thing to note is the receivers your looking at only offer 20 to 40 watts more power. You need to double you current receivers wattage output to get a barely noticeable 3db increase in output.


The other question is where do you have your speakers crossed over ? It can save power if you cross over at 80 hz and let the sub do most of the work. The other is how big is the room you are trying to fill ?

Cheers,
Glenn

 

[Volumius]

In my environment, the Harman/Kardon 7300 costs twice as much as the other receivers i listed. All of them are 1000 euro, except the harman/kardon 7300 witch is 2200 euro! I have been a bit done with the onkyo because i always hear people saying it sounds disorted and overly agressive with no attention to detail, so the Marantz 7500, Denon 3805 and Yamaha 2500 remain. I am very curious how the yamaha 2500 fares against the denon 3805 and marantz 7500, this because i have assume that the marantz 7500 and denon 3805 sound character is about the same.

 

[mocwilson]

didn't Denon buy Marantz?

 

[Volumius]

maybe, but anybody else opinions on what i should take for some exciting cinema sound that shakes your chair with deep bass and that paired with detailed treble and precise surround? Would the Yamaha 2500 do the job? or perhaps the Marantz 7500, Pioneer 2014?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I have the 3805 and don't think the Marantz 7500 could hang with it. I would compare the 3805 to the 8500 though. It's a killer receiver, but was out of my price range. I loved the HK 7300, but the best I've seen it was $1399 US shipped from www.jr.com and that was well above the $840 US I got my 3805 for. I love the sound, the look, and the fact it is HEAVY and SOLID. It's built like a tank. A high end dealer near me said Marantz has dropped in quality over the years, but I am doubting that with their new line of receivers. The Yammy played well in my house, but lost a little at the top. Didn't seem to have the guts the Denon did. The Pioneer had the guts, but not the sound of the Denon. I guess it matters if you like your sound a little brighter (Yamaha), or smoother (Marantz), or a little of both (Denon). Just my .02. An in home trial would be your best bet, not us for the money you are investing. I had 5 in the house before I decided on the Denon.

 

[BMXTRIX]

There are the rest, and then there is the 3805 and the 2500. Those two are simply manufactured, all-around, to a higher standard. Excellent engineering and very good sound.

But, in my opinion, not what you are hoping for by a long shot. Really, at $1,000.00 you are touching the bottom most rung of what you want to call "Help choosing a high end receiver"

They aren't really high end manufacturers, they are mainstream, and for both companies they BOTH have two receivers that are more high end than the ones you listed... Even then, they aren't going to be able to come close to really good separates. Though, either will suffice as a really good pre-amp.

So, I would say that you should go with EITHER the 2500 or 3805 and then immediately start saving for a good 5 channel amplifier, or 5 good 1-channel amps.

Bass is almost entirely a function of your subwoofer if the receiver passes the LFE channel through and has good bass management (those two do), then if you aren't satisfied with your bass, your sub is either poorly positioned, or not enough for your room. If you aren't happy with the volume though... get the external amp(s).

In my opinion, the leading edge of 'high end' begins at about $3,000 and quickly goes up with products from high end companies like McIntosh and Meridian. $$$$$$

Sorry - I know that sounds bad, but I think it would be worse for you to really have high expectations, then wonder why your $1,000 receiver isn't giving you all that you hoped for.